General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Aero wheels suggestions Rss Feed  
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2015-04-24 12:12 PM

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Fishers, Indiana
Subject: Aero wheels suggestions
I have basically 3 options if I want to buy aero wheels with the budget I have (less than $1000)
1. Buy used name brand from eBay.
2. Buy from Chinese manufacturer.
3. Buy new Flo wheels.

If it were you, what would you choose and why?


2015-04-24 12:45 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

How about 4. Buy used Flo wheels?

Personally I would avoid #2.  I know many people have had success with them but I just find it a tad risky (which may be completely unfounded).

2015-04-24 1:01 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
I just went through this exact same thing. I wanted to go with (as per the majority of suggestions from quite knowledgeable folks on here):

-Keep the current back wheel and buy a cover from wheelbuilder
-Buy a deep front wheel from Flo (as deep as you are comfortable)
-Buy GP4000 tires (as important as the wheels)
-Buy latex tubes

This option will run you around $700

The problem I had was that getting Flo's are not easy. They come out of production a couple times a year and you have to be lucky enough to get them. They come up used here and there but they aren't cheap.

What I ended up going with was:

-A set of 88mm Chinese carbon wheels (from Wheelsfar.com) $500 ($600 with shipping)
-A back wheel cover from wheelbuilder $90
-GP4000 tires $80
-Latex Tubes $30

I am REALLY happy with my setup. I'm glad I went with the Chinese carbon wheels. They are fantastic. Super light, strong and I have over 1,000 miles on them with zero issues. They showed up at my house in perfect condition 7 days after I ordered them. Their customer service was also awesome and super responsive. I have yet to find a first hand account of anything bad coming out of buying Chinese carbon wheels. Just hearsay....and I searched.

For under $1,000 my bike got fast (yeah, I know it's the engine, but I definitely gained some speed) and it looks bad-a$$



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2015-04-24 1:17 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
I also had the same goal and bought a new pair of Williams 85 Carbon Clinchers for $900. This was/is my first pair of aero wheels but after about 500 miles on them I'm very happy and have definitely noticed an increase in speed. Looks like they're $1,200 now but hopefully they'll go on sale again soon.

http://www.williamscycling.com/Pre-Order-Wheel-System-85-Carbon-Cli...

2015-04-24 2:15 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Pro
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Melbourne FL
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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

I went with #4 because I hardly buy anything new, or new at full price anymore. I waited with patience and pickup a used set of 60/90 FLO's on eBay for $650 with velo plugs, good wear GP4000s tires and latex tubes. (note a pair FLO's with ceramic bearing recently showed up on eBay)

Whatever you get look for the wider U type wheels (e.g. below from FLO's website).

 

2015-04-24 3:15 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Fast tires, latex tubes, a disc cover for your current rear training wheel, and whatever you want for the front wheel.  You can get a really fast setup for less than $600.



2015-04-24 8:43 PM
in reply to: Donto

Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
I've been watching those flo's on ebay.
2015-04-25 8:30 AM
in reply to: #5110570

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Fishers, Indiana
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
I would like to buy Flo wheels used but there is very low inventory on the market.
A follow up questions is it even worth me buying wheels if I am a MOP rider. Is it worth the 3-5% gain?
2015-04-25 9:06 AM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Originally posted by jpzaleski I would like to buy Flo wheels used but there is very low inventory on the market. A follow up questions is it even worth me buying wheels if I am a MOP rider. Is it worth the 3-5% gain?
Former MOP rider to FOP rider here.  I bought an aero helmet on a Nashbar closeout, started using GP4000s and latex tubes, picked up a cheap set of Felt TTR2 40mm wheels, made my own disc cover, and paid attention to cable routing.  I considered it all worth it then and now as the training progressed that got me closer to the front of the field.

2015-04-25 10:25 AM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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409
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Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
Originally posted by jpzaleski

I would like to buy Flo wheels used but there is very low inventory on the market.
A follow up questions is it even worth me buying wheels if I am a MOP rider. Is it worth the 3-5% gain?


The best thing I noticed about upgrading my wheels is that I wanted to ride my bike more! I didn't actually notice a speed upgrade from the wheels, but I couldn't wait to hop on and show them off which led to speed gains. I was at the bottomish side when I got them though. I went from 17 mph to 22 over a few months. I'm under the impression that you won't actually notice much at the low speeds, but I'm not an expert.
2015-04-25 5:23 PM
in reply to: Lupy

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, Illinois
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

I think 3mar has the setup.  I'm heading in the same direction but am going to go with attack/force tires.

I don't understand the fascination with Flo wheels.  This conversation of carbon wheels comes up all the time with the same results.  People complain about the price of Zipp's, ENVE's, etc, then someone mentions Chinese wheels, and then someone chimes in and says "No way...but a set of Flo's".  What's the difference?  Flo doesn't test their wheels, they trust that the manufacturer does just like you would if you were to buy from a Chinese manufacturer.  Nothing against Flo as a company, in fact they are doing an awesome job at sales and marketing I've just never read anything with quantitative data suggesting they are better quality.  You are going to have product failure with Zipp's, Flo's, and Chinese wheels it's just inherent in any manufacturing process of any product.  When a set of Chinese wheels fail it just gets blown out of proportion because everyone jumps up and wants to say "I told you so!"



2015-04-25 5:52 PM
in reply to: #5110734

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
#2, but only if they're the newer shapes, i.e. firecrest/firestrike. I like Zipps, but buy what you can afford. I'd go with "name brand" myself, but if what I could afford was a set of new Flo's vs chinese, I'd go Flo.
2015-04-25 6:08 PM
in reply to: ec1974

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360
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Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
I think part of the reason you never hear about Flo failing is that it's an alloy rim with a carbon fairing. The carbon isn't structural so it isn't bearing any major stress, and the brakes are just contacting the allow rim. I'm not aware of any of the no-name Chinese wheels that are made like this - they're all either all carbon or carbon with an alloy brake track bonded to them. This means the rim itself had better be structurally sound, and the heat and stress created by braking (particularly during long descents) can cause real problems if the wheel isn't up to task (can also cause problems with latex tubes). That's the difference.

That and Flo has data backing up their design. The Chinese open-mold wheels are probably pretty good (provided you get the wide U-shaped ones, they all seem to still be selling narrow deep-Vs too) but there's no data on them.
2015-04-26 7:36 AM
in reply to: Jason N

Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
Originally posted by Jason N

Fast tires, latex tubes, a disc cover for your current rear training wheel, and whatever you want for the front wheel.  You can get a really fast setup for less than $600.




Jason

The site says a wheel cover will not work on my current wheel. Would you say its a waste to buy a 90 for the rear and cover it , when I could buy a 30 and cover it?

My goal here are wheels for 2016 on the Muskoka course.

Joe
2015-04-26 12:21 PM
in reply to: Puppetmaster

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

The site says a wheel cover will not work on my current wheel. Would you say its a waste to buy a 90 for the rear and cover it , when I could buy a 30 and cover it?

Not at all and it's a great combination. This way, you have a disc when the conditions allow, and a 90mm deep rear when you need that. Another option to think about is a set of the 60's... also a great combination for a road bike you really get the most versatile setup.
2015-04-27 1:19 AM
in reply to: Puppetmaster

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Originally posted by Puppetmaster
Originally posted by Jason N

Fast tires, latex tubes, a disc cover for your current rear training wheel, and whatever you want for the front wheel.  You can get a really fast setup for less than $600.

Jason The site says a wheel cover will not work on my current wheel. Would you say its a waste to buy a 90 for the rear and cover it , when I could buy a 30 and cover it? My goal here are wheels for 2016 on the Muskoka course. Joe

it would only be a waste if you never have the need for the uncovered 90. 



2015-04-27 9:04 AM
in reply to: #5110806

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
Since I don't fully understand the specs, etc... Would zipp 60's or Flo 60's be a better buy regardless of price difference?
2015-04-27 10:20 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Zipp 60s use the same rim shape that was developed around 10 years ago.  They are basically the old aluminum 404 except they are heavier.  It's Zipps way of still offering an aluminum brake option without putting any new R and D into it.  buying a brand new set of Zipp 60s for MSRP is pretty much the most foolish thing you could do considering the other options out there like HED, FLO, or older used 404 aluminum clinchers.



Edited by Jason N 2015-04-27 10:21 AM
2015-04-27 10:50 AM
in reply to: #5110570

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Fishers, Indiana
Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
eBay has zipp 60's for $800. So would be couple hundred cheaper than new flo's. Is it worth the extra money and buy new flo's?
2015-04-27 2:04 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
Originally posted by jpzaleski

I have basically 3 options if I want to buy aero wheels with the budget I have (less than $1000)
1. Buy used name brand from eBay.
2. Buy from Chinese manufacturer.
3. Buy new Flo wheels.

If it were you, what would you choose and why?


Do you already have a power meter? If not, buy that instead. Much bigger bang for the buck
2015-04-27 2:13 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski

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Melbourne FL
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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Originally posted by jpzaleski eBay has zipp 60's for $800. So would be couple hundred cheaper than new flo's. Is it worth the extra money and buy new flo's?
Someone on ST posted about the benefits/comparison of the old zipp Hybrid Toroidal vs. the newer U shape design.  Simple stated he said in the same crosswind in terms of handling that the old 40 is like the new 60, the old 60 the new 80.  Is it worth it to have a deeper rim with better handling capability in crosswinds than an older design of the same depth?

Also the Zipp 60 is narrower so for best aero performance a smaller tire needs to be used.  Typically this means more rolling resistance.



2015-04-27 3:12 PM
in reply to: jpzaleski


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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions
Originally posted by jpzaleski

I would like to buy Flo wheels used but there is very low inventory on the market.
A follow up questions is it even worth me buying wheels if I am a MOP rider. Is it worth the 3-5% gain?


3-5% . . . well if you got that much, then I'd say yes. I haven't seen any study suggesting those types of numbers. Over a 40K TT, I've seen numbers around 1 minute, give or take. You're looking at closer to 1%. The machine matters so much more. If you are not already training with a PT and a FOP rider, then no, I don't think they are. But if money is no concern, go right ahead.

2015-04-27 5:46 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Aero wheels suggestions

Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by jpzaleski I would like to buy Flo wheels used but there is very low inventory on the market. A follow up questions is it even worth me buying wheels if I am a MOP rider. Is it worth the 3-5% gain?
Former MOP rider to FOP rider here.  I bought an aero helmet on a Nashbar closeout, started using GP4000s and latex tubes, picked up a cheap set of Felt TTR2 40mm wheels, made my own disc cover, and paid attention to cable routing.  I considered it all worth it then and now as the training progressed that got me closer to the front of the field.

^^^^ this is the ticket.  I put the Chattanooga 70.3 course in Best Bike Split using a standard tri bike with 30mm wheels.

Current setup + aero helmet = 1 min 37 sec savings (savings vs a road helmet)

Current setup + aero helmet + latex tubes =  3 min 36 sec total savings (latex tubes saves 1 min 59 sec)

Current setup + aero helmet + latex tubes + disk = 3 min 45 sec total savings (disk saves 9 secs)

Current setup + aero helmet + lates tubes + 60 front/disk wheelset = 4 min 37 sec total savings (adding the front 60 saves 52 secs)

The above savings are course and weather specific so the wheelset savings will be affected by such but you can get some general ideas form the above.  Frankly, I was surprised that the disk didn't generate more of a savings but that might be the result of the fairly light winds expected on race date. From the data above, latex tubes and an aero helmet are going to generate the best bang for the buck.

Cool looking wheels are nice too.

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