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Run pace/HR question
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 2015-05-22 10:39 AM |
Pro  4824    Houston |  Subject: Run pace/HR questionI am training for IMAZ, this will be my second full. I am not a fast runner. By not fast I mean my 5K PR is 10:13 pace. While I understand my run training is supposed to be zone 2. I already know how to run slow, been doing it for years. If I go the pace my body is comfortable with I'm around 12:00-12:30 depending on temperature. I have been pushing myself in my runs (logs are current). Am I doing harm or at least more harm than good? This pace is difficult for me but I can do it for 5+ miles. My thinking is once my runs really get long (2 hours+) there is plenty of time for zone 2. This is the first time in many years I have been getting a bit faster and I would really like to keep the momentum going. So.... is going a bit 'faster' OK for now? When do I really need to start staying in zone 2? |
| 2015-05-22 10:51 AM in reply to: KeriKadi |
| 812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Based on your 5k pr, McMillan suggests the following paces for your endurance runs: Recovery Jogs: 12:27-13:23 Long runs: 11:37-12:44 Easy runs (medium distance): 11:34-12:15 So no, I don't think you're running too fast in your training. The only time you want to go real slow is on the short recovery runs. |
| 2015-05-22 11:06 AM in reply to: KeriKadi |
Elite 3683  Whispering Pines, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Keri, Due to limited workout time, I favor intensity over volume, but I have to say that I think you'd benefit from....more (run) volume. Pushing yourself during runs has its place, but having a good base to build on is important. I find that if I have a layoff from running and add intensity, things start to get tender or hurt. I know you're still months out from IMAZ, but start training the run now for a good run in November. Good luck!  |
| 2015-05-22 11:39 AM in reply to: Jet Black |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by Jet Black Based on your 5k pr, McMillan suggests the following paces for your endurance runs: I agree with Jet Black. When I was HM training I found that the McMillan paces off of a recent 5k/10k correlated well with my LT field test HR zones. As you progress in the training your pacing should naturally slowly decrease so resetting the pacing with another run race or just use the HR zones will ensure your progress along well.Recovery Jogs: 12:27-13:23 Long runs: 11:37-12:44 Easy runs (medium distance): 11:34-12:15 So no, I don't think you're running too fast in your training. The only time you want to go real slow is on the short recovery runs. |
| 2015-05-22 6:50 PM in reply to: Donto |
| 643 | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question What the others said. Basically you need to make sure you aren't running too much in zone 3 except maybe the final 30 minutes of a long run to get you used to pushing at the end. Running in Z3 doesn't help you much unless you're pretty close to a half/full marathon and plan to run at that pace. Running at Z2 and Z4/Z5 exclusively is what has helped me the most. Run intervals need to be at Z4. My favorite workout is 2x20 min /w 10 minute rest interval, which means pretty much 2 5K efforts in one workout. If you're falling to zone 3, then you didn't rest enough before the interval. Rest intervals should be super easy (zone 1) so you can push hard when it counts. |
| 2015-05-23 7:50 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
Edited by TriMyBest 2015-05-23 8:01 AM |
| 2015-05-24 8:03 PM in reply to: Jet Black |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by Jet Black Based on your 5k pr, McMillan suggests the following paces for your endurance runs: Recovery Jogs: 12:27-13:23 Long runs: 11:37-12:44 Easy runs (medium distance): 11:34-12:15 So no, I don't think you're running too fast in your training. The only time you want to go real slow is on the short recovery runs. Thank you so much, very helpful information. |
| 2015-05-24 8:05 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by TriMyBest Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
I understand you are trying to be helpful and appreciate your response. However, running 5-6 times a week isn't even remotely possible for me or most people I know. I have to ride, swim, mother 5 children, homeschool, coach 2 volleyball teams and work outside the home 20+ hours a week. This is a hobby, not my life and I think that is likely true for most folks here. |
| 2015-05-24 10:36 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by KeriKadi Originally posted by TriMyBest Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
I understand you are trying to be helpful and appreciate your response. However, running 5-6 times a week isn't even remotely possible for me or most people I know. I have to ride, swim, mother 5 children, homeschool, coach 2 volleyball teams and work outside the home 20+ hours a week. This is a hobby, not my life and I think that is likely true for most folks here. I hear what you are saying, but honestly, if you want to improve your running, you do need to run more. It's the standard answer to these types of posts because, well, it IS the answer to getting faster. Yes, we all know it's difficult to run 5 - 6 times a week when juggling swim and bike sessions. Most of us are juggling families, work, and other responsibilities. But perhaps you could do a focused block of just running where you ditch the other two sports? A few months of just running and you could see some huge results based on the times you're posting now. And no, you're not doing yourself any harm by running faster so long as you feel you're recovering well enough. The harder you run, the better you'll get. But honestly, at your volume, you'll be able to reap a lot of rewards simply by increasing your volume, no need to get fancy with workouts/speed work, stuff like that. Just get out and run as much as you can. Another tip/suggestion. . . .my family commitments at times make it very difficult for me to get away from the home, I can't just leave the kids alone. A treadmill is worth it's weight in gold. It's a lot easier to find the time to jump on that treadmill for a few minutes than it is to put some stuff on and get outside. Edited by ziggie204 2015-05-24 10:41 PM |
| 2015-05-25 7:03 AM in reply to: KeriKadi |
| 409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by KeriKadi Originally posted by TriMyBest Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
I understand you are trying to be helpful and appreciate your response. However, running 5-6 times a week isn't even remotely possible for me or most people I know. I have to ride, swim, mother 5 children, homeschool, coach 2 volleyball teams and work outside the home 20+ hours a week. This is a hobby, not my life and I think that is likely true for most folks here. I understand it might not be possible or more likely just might not be something you are interested in doing since this is just a hobby. To try to get more runs in I would add 2-3 10-15 minute z2 (low to mid z2) runs to what you currently do. That would make your run training fairly closely resemble the Barry P plan (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=runtraining). That being said, you need to do what you enjoy so you don't get burnt out and still have fun training. |
| 2015-05-25 11:59 AM in reply to: ziggie204 |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Of course I agree "run more" or "ride more" is the answer most of the time. I know I could be faster if I was willing to do more running including speedwork. Please note, I did not ask how to get faster. Honestly, I am pretty happy running in the low 11s right now and just wanted to make sure that wasn't too hard considering I am in the early stages of iM training. Thanks for all the replies. Originally posted by ziggie204 Originally posted by KeriKadi Originally posted by TriMyBest Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
I understand you are trying to be helpful and appreciate your response. However, running 5-6 times a week isn't even remotely possible for me or most people I know. I have to ride, swim, mother 5 children, homeschool, coach 2 volleyball teams and work outside the home 20+ hours a week. This is a hobby, not my life and I think that is likely true for most folks here. I hear what you are saying, but honestly, if you want to improve your running, you do need to run more. It's the standard answer to these types of posts because, well, it IS the answer to getting faster. Yes, we all know it's difficult to run 5 - 6 times a week when juggling swim and bike sessions. Most of us are juggling families, work, and other responsibilities. But perhaps you could do a focused block of just running where you ditch the other two sports? A few months of just running and you could see some huge results based on the times you're posting now. And no, you're not doing yourself any harm by running faster so long as you feel you're recovering well enough. The harder you run, the better you'll get. But honestly, at your volume, you'll be able to reap a lot of rewards simply by increasing your volume, no need to get fancy with workouts/speed work, stuff like that. Just get out and run as much as you can. Another tip/suggestion. . . .my family commitments at times make it very difficult for me to get away from the home, I can't just leave the kids alone. A treadmill is worth it's weight in gold. It's a lot easier to find the time to jump on that treadmill for a few minutes than it is to put some stuff on and get outside. |
| 2015-05-25 12:59 PM in reply to: KeriKadi |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Run pace/HR question Originally posted by KeriKadi Of course I agree "run more" or "ride more" is the answer most of the time. I know I could be faster if I was willing to do more running including speedwork. Please note, I did not ask how to get faster. Honestly, I am pretty happy running in the low 11s right now and just wanted to make sure that wasn't too hard considering I am in the early stages of iM training. Thanks for all the replies. Originally posted by ziggie204 Originally posted by KeriKadi I hear what you are saying, but honestly, if you want to improve your running, you do need to run more. It's the standard answer to these types of posts because, well, it IS the answer to getting faster. Yes, we all know it's difficult to run 5 - 6 times a week when juggling swim and bike sessions. Most of us are juggling families, work, and other responsibilities. But perhaps you could do a focused block of just running where you ditch the other two sports? A few months of just running and you could see some huge results based on the times you're posting now. And no, you're not doing yourself any harm by running faster so long as you feel you're recovering well enough. The harder you run, the better you'll get. But honestly, at your volume, you'll be able to reap a lot of rewards simply by increasing your volume, no need to get fancy with workouts/speed work, stuff like that. Just get out and run as much as you can. Another tip/suggestion. . . .my family commitments at times make it very difficult for me to get away from the home, I can't just leave the kids alone. A treadmill is worth it's weight in gold. It's a lot easier to find the time to jump on that treadmill for a few minutes than it is to put some stuff on and get outside. Originally posted by TriMyBest I understand you are trying to be helpful and appreciate your response. However, running 5-6 times a week isn't even remotely possible for me or most people I know. I have to ride, swim, mother 5 children, homeschool, coach 2 volleyball teams and work outside the home 20+ hours a week. This is a hobby, not my life and I think that is likely true for most folks here. Some others touched on this, but I'd suggest, in this order:
ETA: One other thing, it should go without saying, but progressive overload is also essential for improvements. I recently posted this about it on one of my Facebook pages: Milo of Croton
In that case, the answer is "maybe, maybe not." It's not about whether or not you're doing harm. The answers to questions like that are not black and white. It's about risk management while preparing you for your races as well as possible given the available training time. Sure, adding more intensity to your training is one way to get more out of fewer hours per week training, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. The price (especially for someone running as few hours per week as you are) is increased injury risk. Note that I'm not saying you're going to get injured. I'm saying it's more likely. That's why I gave the answer I did in my first post. Based on what you've shared, what's in your logs, and some assumptions, if I were coaching you, I wouldn't agree to much increased intensity when volume is so low. Instead, we'd find a way to get more runs per week in your schedule. I wouldn't be willing to subject my client to what, in my experience, is an unacceptable level of risk. BTW, I understand completely what you're saying about having a busy schedule. ALL of my clients are in the same boat as you are. There's almost always a way to get it done. Often part of the solution is usually doing things like 15-20 minute treadmill runs at home, or 10-15 minute transition runs after biking. It may not sound like much, but 2 of those 15 minute runs per week add up to an additional 25 hours of running per year. It's the little things that add up to help you be more prepared for race day so you can enjoy it more.
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