General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Half Marathon results crituque Rss Feed  
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2015-09-12 3:01 PM


19

Subject: Half Marathon results crituque
I'm wondering if any runners want to give advice about training or how to improve on my running. I just ran my first Half Marathon and was targeting 1:30 but I hit a wall around mile 10 and finished at a 1:32.27.
Some background.

Running 2-3 times 10-20 mpw. Usually 1 tempo run, 1 slow easy run, and maybe 1 hard interval short run. Longest run was 8 miles.
HIIT circuit lifting 3x week, 1 hour each.
Biking or swimming 1x week currently. (when winter comes I'll focus more on those)
I've been doing a HIIT class for the past year which I really enjoy but I've only been running 10-20 mpw for the past 6 weeks.
Here's my splits

[img]http://s4.postimg.org/x6qjwc2wd/Screenshot_2015_09_12_12_57_47.png[/img]
[img]http://s3.postimg.org/c2d5dukeb/Screenshot_2015_09_12_12_58_01.png[/img]



(Screenshot_2015-09-12-12-57-47.png)



(Screenshot_2015-09-12-12-58-01.png)



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2015-09-12 4:00 PM
in reply to: 0


15

Norfolk, Virginia
Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
I'd say that is pretty good running...

Run more.

Edited by STVA 2015-09-12 4:03 PM
2015-09-12 5:25 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque

running more is the obvious answer.

do you have any other race results?
2015-09-12 6:02 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque

Some more run volume would help as the total listed really isn't much.

You weren't really running fast enough at any point to hit 1:30. Not without a decent negative split over the second half. May need to get a little faster.

HIIT lifting 3x a week seems like a bit much if running is your strongest goal.

2015-09-12 6:04 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
As I said on your other running thread, find a good running plan or purchase Jack Daniels book. Then follow the plan or apply the principles to your running.

Right now your running talent is giving you decent results despite a plan that is not that well designed.

Shane
2015-09-12 6:57 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
Honestly, that is disgustingly fast based on how little running you've been doing! I ran 1:33 two years in a row at the same race, tried for another three or four years to break 1:30 but just got slower, and have basically given up. Have just lost the belief that I can do it at my age (46) given the amount of running my body can handle, and the feeling that it's worth it to keep trying, and have decided just to focus on tri rather than keep banging my head against the running wall. With those times on minimal training, you probably have a lot of untapped potential if you gradually build up to more frequent runs, a longer long run (at or slightly beyond race distance) and maintaining some intensity, while staying healthy. Hal Higdon's website has some excellent plans for half-marathon and other distance. You might find the intermediate one a useful base. It includes some cross-training days as well.

Of course, how far you want to go with this will depend on how important you feel your running goals are compared to tri training, lifting, or other things. In general, I've found there's little carry-over from swimming or biking to run fitness, unless you're really a beginner with limited general fitness. Likewise, lifting can be helpful for general fitness or injury prevention, but it's not going to be a big contributor to run speed, especially at that distance. (Just look at the upper bodies of elite runners!) To be a better runner, you really just have to run. BTW I think that with more mileage and longer long runs, you should see less slowdown in the final miles. Those are always tough at that distance, but if you're a bit low on volume, that's where it will really come back to bite you. I think almost every HM I've done since my 20's, over the last three miles I've been thinking, "Sh..., I wish I had done more volume/longer long runs," as those younger, faster women sprint past me while I plod on dead legs.


2015-09-12 7:54 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


19

Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
Thanks for your input you have some good points. I don't necessarily want the body of an elite marathoner as I've worked hard on overall body strength and I also run spartan races competitively and the upper body strength pays off when climbing ropes, monkey bars, hercules lift sand bucket carries. I really want that extra 5-10 pounds?? of upper body/core/back muscle but still be a very good runner. I'm starting to realize that I just may have to choose one or the other, can't have both.

Heres a little background on me and why I was running so little. I'm 31, 5'4", 140lbs. I was never a runner, never ran track or cross country in hs or college. I was a wrestler, 3x hs state champ 2x college AA.

The only reason I'm decent at running is because I did ALOT of it as part of my conditioning in wrestling. I've ran a few 5k and 10ks and usually win my age group or top 3 at least. I don't have high mpw because that type of running doesn't really require it I feel. Half marathon and to qualify for Boston is a whole different world I'm finding out.
2015-09-12 7:59 PM
in reply to: brigby1


19

Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
My goal was to run miles 1-2 about 10 seconds slower then my pace then transition into race pace 7:55-7:59. The last 3 miles I was going to go all out and try to run under 6:30 pace but that obviously didn't happen. It didn't help the last 4 miles were into a 10mph wind. I've ran a 5k pace at 6:14 and 10k pace 6:24 so I figured it was within reach. It's a learning process I learned a lot from my first HM.
2015-09-12 9:00 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
To pick up the pace that much in the last miles of a long race, you really have to have outstanding run fitness. The workouts that one uses to develop that ability require a really solid base of volume and intensity. Actually, if you are speeding up that much, you have probably paced the beginning too conservatively. Most runners aim for a slight negative split between the first and second halves of a long race. In my younger days my best HM was 1:16, and I ran under 1:20 many times. Generally I did my best performances with a very steady pace for the whole race, sometimes with a bit of a "kick" in the last mile or two to try to dispatch a competitor or (in one or two cases) break an age, course, or personal record (and in a few cases, just to get to the darned finish line before I melted or froze to death, or find a porta-potty!)

With more run volume you should see less of a differential between the 10K and HM paces. There are charts that show you equivalent performances for the same VO2 max, but the times for the longer races are hard for most people to achieve without focusing your run training on those distances (putting in the volume and learning to hold that race pace for a long time while running relaxed and efficient).

RE strength--just a thought. I'm not familiar with spartan racing (other than spectating a few events) but for the body weight stuff, you might actually do better at a somewhat lighter weight since there is then less body to lift. I'm pretty good at rope climbing, bars, and the like. I'm 5'7" ish and 115-120 pounds, and have some pretty petite friends who kick a$$ at that stuff in races. I actually do quite a bit of strength training so it may be more a matter of strength per pound than actual bulk. That might compensate for slightly lower strength for the stuff that doesn't involve running or leveraging your own weight.
2015-09-12 9:39 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


19

Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
Your spot on. Those are impressive times by the way. Since I've never ran a half marathon or anything over 8 miles before I needed to figure what my pace would be so I pluged my 5k and 10k numbers into a few of those performance calculators and they said my HM pace should be anywhere from 6:40 - 6:55. I figured 6:55 was attainable so that's why I choose to shoot for a 1:30 time.

Spartan races having a lean strong light frame is your best bet for about 90% of the race. There's a few obstacles that simply are easier to do if your stronger. The Hercules lift is a pulley rope with 3 sand bags attached at the end. Even at 140lbs I had to leverage my legs underneath the railing and push down hard to keep the bags from lifting me up. You have to lift it 40-50 feet high. The gravel bucket carry up a hill and atlas carry requires pretty good arm strength to hold on. Failing an obstacle is 30 burpees which is going to set you back 1-2 minutes and wear you down. Most of the other obstacles just requires strong grip, back and core muscles.

I'm competing in the elite division in a spartan race in 6 weeks so we'll see if my increase mileage pays off.
2015-09-13 6:03 AM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
Originally posted by maxamillion125

I needed to figure what my pace would be so I pluged my 5k and 10k numbers into a few of those performance calculators and they said my HM pace should be anywhere from 6:40 - 6:55. I figured 6:55 was attainable so that's why I choose to shoot for a 1:30 time.



A fast run time is made up of a few elements. The key ones are VO2max, ability to maintain a high % of VO2max for a long time, and run economy.

Those calculators make assumptions based on someone that is properly trained for the events and averages across many runners. For example, they assume you can maintain high 80s percent of VO2max for a long period of time. You probably don't have this.

You may have one, or two of the elements and missing the third.

Looking at your strengths and weakness will determine what needs work but for sure your running training load is too low to do well on the longer events.



2015-09-13 7:28 AM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque
As others have said, the amount of time and the number of times you run per week are low. You can get away with two times a week as long as you put in long runs those two times and have a lot of endurance due to other training. I stopped doing long runs because I'm lousy at swimming and wanted to focus on that. I do a hard run and a threshold or some other run each week but each session is at least 1.5 hours. If you are training only for a half marathon, spend more time on the run.

BTW, technically there is no wall in a half marathon. The wall refers to the place where your glycogen stores are depleted and you start having to break down muscle tissue in order to get your energy. This usually happens at around the 30 km mark in a marathon.
2015-09-13 8:35 PM
in reply to: maxamillion125

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Subject: RE: Half Marathon results crituque

Originally posted by maxamillion125 My goal was to run miles 1-2 about 10 seconds slower then my pace then transition into race pace 7:55-7:59. The last 3 miles I was going to go all out and try to run under 6:30 pace but that obviously didn't happen. It didn't help the last 4 miles were into a 10mph wind. I've ran a 5k pace at 6:14 and 10k pace 6:24 so I figured it was within reach. It's a learning process I learned a lot from my first HM.

Ok, understandable with the non-running work now. At some point, you may still decide to lessen one part to focus more heavily on another. For your races, it's really not *that* different from triathlon if one switches in the other work for biking & swimming. Triathletes all have more focused periods between each discipline throughout the year and then become more balanced leading into particular races.

As for the pacing, starting off a bit slower is fine. I do that all the time too. Works really well for me to build in and negative split. Are you familiar with descending or negative splitting? This is going progressively faster throughout the race. This is what you attempted to do only the jump attempted was massive, expecting to get to pretty fast paces after 10+ miles of running strong. Something that may work better is to look at :05-:10 increases in speed over the latter half of the race. Maybe once, or maybe a few times. Seeing how you respond along the way.

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