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2016-04-28 9:16 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Ok, so a follow up to the Garmin question. I realize power is not the only consideration RPE, wind, heat etc. all play a role in effort. But for arguments sake let's say I'm doing a HIM type 3 hour ride targeting 85% of FTP. Do you look at your 3s/10s avg. and try to keep it in a range say 82 to 88%. Allowing a little more for uphills and a bit less for downhills? Or is keeping an eye on total NP or even lap NP more important? Trying to get the most out of these expensive toys I had to have.


2016-04-29 12:43 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Basically you have it right.  I use 3s power, but 10s power can be good for much longer steady efforts.  You probably will put a little more power uphill and into the wind as compared to downhill and with the wind.  I usually keep an eye on NP to see how I'm doing as my routes usually involve a good amount of turns and coasting that impacts average power.  On race day it's much easier to keep average power closer to NP because there aren't any red lights or stop signs and you don't have to come to a stop to refill bottles.

2016-04-29 9:03 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Originally posted by GoldenSprocket Ok, so a follow up to the Garmin question. I realize power is not the only consideration RPE, wind, heat etc. all play a role in effort. But for arguments sake let's say I'm doing a HIM type 3 hour ride targeting 85% of FTP. Do you look at your 3s/10s avg. and try to keep it in a range say 82 to 88%. Allowing a little more for uphills and a bit less for downhills? Or is keeping an eye on total NP or even lap NP more important? Trying to get the most out of these expensive toys I had to have.

I know you said your (outside) FTP may have gone up, but 85% is pretty aggressive for most AG'ers.  Personally, I wouldn't be targeting a percent of FTP if I wasn't reasonably sure it was an accurate number.  That said, if you've done a number of long rides (3.5 - 4 hours) with some running after (20 - 40 minutes) targeting a specific power and felt fine, it may all work out.

I try to keep my power within a pretty narrow range when I'm riding on the flats.  I'll elevate it a little for uphill sections or if I need to in order to pass legally.  I do whatever I can to keep it at or below threshold for these excursions (analyzing my last race, my best one minute power was still below threshold, I believe).  In the case that I get off the bike feeling "too fresh", that just means I can run a little faster.  I'm a very mediocre runner, but still believe a conservatively paced bike will result in a better overall time.

Honestly, I keep an eye on 3/10s power, NP, and AP all pretty equally.  For racing, I don't worry too much about lap power or lap NP or lap whatever, because the things that'll kill you (me) are too high of power overall and too high VI (large difference between NP and AP).

2016-04-29 11:43 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by GoldenSprocket Ok, so a follow up to the Garmin question. I realize power is not the only consideration RPE, wind, heat etc. all play a role in effort. But for arguments sake let's say I'm doing a HIM type 3 hour ride targeting 85% of FTP. Do you look at your 3s/10s avg. and try to keep it in a range say 82 to 88%. Allowing a little more for uphills and a bit less for downhills? Or is keeping an eye on total NP or even lap NP more important? Trying to get the most out of these expensive toys I had to have.

I know you said your (outside) FTP may have gone up, but 85% is pretty aggressive for most AG'ers.  Personally, I wouldn't be targeting a percent of FTP if I wasn't reasonably sure it was an accurate number.  That said, if you've done a number of long rides (3.5 - 4 hours) with some running after (20 - 40 minutes) targeting a specific power and felt fine, it may all work out.

I try to keep my power within a pretty narrow range when I'm riding on the flats.  I'll elevate it a little for uphill sections or if I need to in order to pass legally.  I do whatever I can to keep it at or below threshold for these excursions (analyzing my last race, my best one minute power was still below threshold, I believe).  In the case that I get off the bike feeling "too fresh", that just means I can run a little faster.  I'm a very mediocre runner, but still believe a conservatively paced bike will result in a better overall time.

Honestly, I keep an eye on 3/10s power, NP, and AP all pretty equally.  For racing, I don't worry too much about lap power or lap NP or lap whatever, because the things that'll kill you (me) are too high of power overall and too high VI (large difference between NP and AP).




Makes sense. I only used 85% as an example for the sake of having a number. Didn't mean to imply that it was my actually HIM effort. But I get what you're saying. Still in the "Build" phase if you will and haven't really started trying to dial in race effort with some running after.
2016-04-30 9:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by GoldenSprocket

Ok, so a follow up to the Garmin question. I realize power is not the only consideration RPE, wind, heat etc. all play a role in effort. But for arguments sake let's say I'm doing a HIM type 3 hour ride targeting 85% of FTP. Do you look at your 3s/10s avg. and try to keep it in a range say 82 to 88%. Allowing a little more for uphills and a bit less for downhills? Or is keeping an eye on total NP or even lap NP more important? Trying to get the most out of these expensive toys I had to have.


You have gotten great advice from everyone else.

I look at my 3 second power and try to keep it at my goal. It is hard to do. It swings all over the place so what I really try to do is keep it in a range. I might switch to 10 second just to see if I can have a smoother, more consistent number. I don't look at NP, speed, HR, cadence, anything except for my current power number. I can't go back and change what I have done so I just try to keep the current power in the range.

Where I think people really mess up when racing is going way too hard on uphills (or in to the wind, or any time the riding gets tough). I set a hard cap on how high I am willing to let my power go on the uphills. When I see that number on climbs I refuse to exceed it. It may mean that I am creeping up the hill and that people are passing me like I am standing still. I can accept that. I don't want to blow my legs up so I just swallow my ego and let those folks go. I figure that I will see them again on the run.

Anecdotally, when I did IM Tahoe, I stuck to my hard caps on the climbs for the race. The problem was, that race had four climbs that required me to basically be at 95% of FTP for 20+ minutes per climb. No matter how much I wanted to hold back I had to go hard enough to get up the hills. I knew that I would pay the price later and I did. That was the hardest (and slowest) 26.2 miles I have ever run. But I guess that is racing. You just need to be smart and make good decisions and know what the consequences of those decisions will be. I love the Endurance Nation quote, something to the effect, "there is no such thing as a great bike followed by a terrible run."

More often than not I don't train the way I race. I am trying to destroy my legs in training to make them stronger, long-term. I really don't do race-specific efforts/training until the last couple weeks before a race. I want a few rides where I hold that consistent IM or HIM effort just to practice for race day but I don't need months worth of that kind of effort.

Edited by wannabefaster 2016-04-30 9:40 AM
2016-04-30 9:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
On the training front, I am slowly getting back at it. Not quite two weeks out from the marathon effort and I feel pretty good but there is still some fatigue. It is a long season so I have to be smart and not push too hard too soon. Restraint has never been my strong suit but I cut two workouts short this week and went to bed instead of pushing through. I actually feel good about that; like I was being smart. That is progress, not feeling like a failure for not doing the whole workout. Have to listen to the body.....

The weather has been improving here in MI so I have taken my 'cross bike out for a couple dirt road rides. So much fun to get off the trainer and get outside. Randy, I have been thinking about getting the mountain bike out and doing some trail rides for training. I am riding a 2007(6?) version of Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail. It is old enough that it has 26" wheels. I don't ride it enough to make it worth it to me to upgrade to 27.5" or 29". It has high end components throughout and I can keep up with most of the folks on the trails when I go, so I think I will just hold on to it. I know Spesh had a bad rep with some people but they do make pretty nice equipment at a reasonable price-point. I bought mine, new, but from the prior year's stock so I got a great deal. It might be worth asking if they have a 2015 bike sitting in the store room of your LBS.

Work has been really busy so I have been getting home late and going in early so there is that stress as well. Something we all have to balance as AG athletes :-)

Edited by wannabefaster 2016-04-30 9:38 AM


2016-04-30 2:08 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

I think it's safe to say summer humidity is here (and probably to stay).  The heat's not quite here yet....getting hot, but not yet miserable.  The forecast was calling for thunderstorms to start rolling through at 8:30am and basically go all day and into tomorrow morning, so I switched my long run to today in hopes that the storms will pass and I can do my long ride tomorrow without dodging lightning. 

I was supposed to run 85 minutes, but it was getting ugly only 30 minutes in.  I took off at 6:30am -- it was 78F and probably 100% humidity.  I actually brought a water bottle with me since I knew I would sweat a lot....I was really contemplating pulling the plug but kept reminding myself that I wouldn't just quit if I was having a bad day in a race, right?!?!  Anyways, I eventually did shut it down about an hour in (and had to walk 30 minutes back to my house) with the plan to hop on the treadmill later in the day, after rehydrating.  I got on the scale and managed to lose three pounds (2.5% of my body weight) in an hour of running, and that was with drinking about 20oz of water.

Treadmill run was a million times better than my "long" run this morning.  Oh, and the irony of this whole thing?  It's freaking sunny out, no storms at all -- Nicole is not amused.  It will probably be stormy and crummy tomorrow....and I'll probably be riding in it because I'm stubborn and "punishing" myself for making a poor decision this morning. 

2016-05-01 7:57 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Originally posted by ligersandtions

I think it's safe to say summer humidity is here (and probably to stay).  The heat's not quite here yet....getting hot, but not yet miserable.  The forecast was calling for thunderstorms to start rolling through at 8:30am and basically go all day and into tomorrow morning, so I switched my long run to today in hopes that the storms will pass and I can do my long ride tomorrow without dodging lightning. 

I was supposed to run 85 minutes, but it was getting ugly only 30 minutes in.  I took off at 6:30am -- it was 78F and probably 100% humidity.  I actually brought a water bottle with me since I knew I would sweat a lot....I was really contemplating pulling the plug but kept reminding myself that I wouldn't just quit if I was having a bad day in a race, right?!?!  Anyways, I eventually did shut it down about an hour in (and had to walk 30 minutes back to my house) with the plan to hop on the treadmill later in the day, after rehydrating.  I got on the scale and managed to lose three pounds (2.5% of my body weight) in an hour of running, and that was with drinking about 20oz of water.

Treadmill run was a million times better than my "long" run this morning.  Oh, and the irony of this whole thing?  It's freaking sunny out, no storms at all -- Nicole is not amused.  It will probably be stormy and crummy tomorrow....and I'll probably be riding in it because I'm stubborn and "punishing" myself for making a poor decision this morning. 

Same thing here in South Alabama.  Headed out on a group ride at 6:00am yesterday and humidity was oppressive.  Got back to the shop for the usual 7:30am shop ride and was dripping wet......summertime kind of sweating. This morning the windows are fogged up  at the house so I  can only imagine it is really humid out. Ugh...well it is only 5-6 months until we get a break.  

Going to try an easy run today and see how  my right knee does.  It has felt good since the cortisone shot but I have stuck to the elliptical for my "run"workouts.  Time to test it a little bit and see where things stand. 

 

2016-05-01 11:08 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

No rain this morning when I got up, radar looked good....so I drove 30 minutes from the house to do some aero testing.  It was super humid out and the ground was wet from rain throughout the night, but I figured I could make it work.  Of course, part way through my warm-up, it started raining....but I checked the radar and it still wasn't showing much, so I figured it would pass.  An hour and a half later, I was thoroughly over it....drove home and set my bike up on the trainer.

You win some, you lose some -- I lost twice this weekend.  Hopefully I'll win a couple times next weekend

2016-05-03 4:13 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
So I scored a set of Flo's on this past order. Went with carbon wheel and aluminum braking track. 60 on the front and 90 on the back. There was probably better ways to spend the money but I wanted them so I pulled the trigger. I wasn't too sure how I was going to break it to the wife but then she asks me if I would mind if she flew down to North Carolina to see her high school friend over Memorial Day weekend. I responded, " Sure Honey you go right ahead you deserve it. Oh by the way....." Hehehe.
2016-05-04 9:08 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Originally posted by GoldenSprocket So I scored a set of Flo's on this past order. Went with carbon wheel and aluminum braking track. 60 on the front and 90 on the back. There was probably better ways to spend the money but I wanted them so I pulled the trigger. I wasn't too sure how I was going to break it to the wife but then she asks me if I would mind if she flew down to North Carolina to see her high school friend over Memorial Day weekend. I responded, " Sure Honey you go right ahead you deserve it. Oh by the way....." Hehehe.

I have the older version of the Flo 60/90 and am really happy with them.  Solid wheels and very fast.

For an extra $100 or so, get a rear disc cover for some extra speed.



2016-05-04 6:32 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Marc, you seem to be everywhere these days man. Last week it was on trirudy selling bikes, this week I open up the latest Triathlon Canada mag and there you are again. How's that achilles holding up? Mine's been causing problems of late - since I've gotten outside and modified my running form they've been a little angry but it was my first attempt at speedwork on the track that really seemed to cause problems. I've been doing eccentric heel drops and icing/taping.. running on the treadmill doesn't seem to cause any problems but running outside does, so it looks like it's back to the pain cave for my running for the next little while (with a big drop in run volume).
2016-05-04 7:12 PM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by SenatorClayDavis

Marc, you seem to be everywhere these days man. Last week it was on trirudy selling bikes, this week I open up the latest Triathlon Canada mag and there you are again. How's that achilles holding up? Mine's been causing problems of late - since I've gotten outside and modified my running form they've been a little angry but it was my first attempt at speedwork on the track that really seemed to cause problems. I've been doing eccentric heel drops and icing/taping.. running on the treadmill doesn't seem to cause any problems but running outside does, so it looks like it's back to the pain cave for my running for the next little while (with a big drop in run volume).


This is a really good article on achilles stuff
http://www.runningwritings.com/2013/11/achilles-tendonitis-in-runne...

DO NOT DO SPEED WORK WITH ACHILLES PROBLEMS !!!!!!!

The bike thing is a little out of control. I got a "deal I cannot refuse" on the Argon bike so I have to make room for it. I have two road bikes, two tri bikes, a cross bike and now the new Argon.

The article in tri mag was strange. I did that interview months ago and I get an email from the head of Argon saying he was inspired by my article. What article ? Then I got a copy of it. It is actually quite nice. The "uncut" version is much nicer. They actually called Jordan Rapp and asked him about me. He was very generous. The lady that wrote the article is a very good triathlete as is her husband. She is a CBC radio host and her husband is a quite famous world reporter. It was cool going over to their place for the interview.

I have been doing some pretty cool tri related things lately. Between the Lionel fit and testing stuff, to some interactions with Lionel's swim coach to some pretty bleeding edge stuff being done with a few Montreal based companies, my head is spinning a little. Good thing I can't run :-)


2016-05-05 4:23 PM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
It was a long time ago that I spent about nine months transitioning to a more midfoot running style. I specifically did it to reduce the axial loads on my knees due to old cartilage damage. I am very happy that I did it but I can vividly remember the soreness in my calves and achilles when going through the whole transition. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world for me to do but I could almost immediately see how much easier it was on my legs to run that way so I stuck with it. Now it is just my running "style" but when I was doing it, every run required total concentration to run the new way.

To this day, if I run in a shoe with less than a four mm drop I still feel tightness/extra stretch in my calves. Four mm seems about perfect. I have a couple pairs of zero drop shoes and I do still run in them but only short stuff. I ran in my Newton Energy shoes the other day and my calves knew something different was going on.

Just something to think about.....
2016-05-05 6:47 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
That's a very informative article. Interesting that they say achilles tendonitis isn't inflammatory, so ice isn't helpful. So I'll stick to taping, eccentric heel drops, and short runs on the treadmill. I have a race at the end of the month (only a 3K run) so hopefully things will be OK then. Will be interesting to race in the absence of any speedwork.

Jason, a lot of what you're saying rings true for me. I did a gait analysis back in March and they really encouraged me to try to get away from heel striking. Initially it took A LOT of concentration to run with the new style, and although it's starting to feel more natural once I get into a rhythm, I do find I have to constantly check in and make sure I'm still doing it right. I find I can't really run that way on the treadmill though. I transitioned from the treadmill to running outdoors at the same time that I took up the new running form, and it did make both my achilles' sore. It gradually got better though (until my first foray into speedwork) and now it's just on one side.

Concurrently to all this I've switched from NB1400s (10mm drop) to Saucony Fastwitches (4mm drop), so this is another aggravating factor. Maybe I'll put the NBs back into the rotation while my achilles' heal up.

I definitely notice that the new style is easier on my knees though. The knees have been my biggest problem over the last couple of years and they're complaint-free so far. If I can just get my achilles' to adapt, I'll be all set.
2016-05-05 9:21 PM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Well...since we are talking about aches and pains I have a few new ones.  Had a wreck on our group ride tonight.  It is a "social ride" so nothing crazy other than one short segment  where everyone gets frisky.  We weren't hitting it hard tonight and all of a sudden a couple of guys broke.  I was mid pack and next thing I know I am sliding across the road.  Left side got scraped up on my upper arm and knee area but nothing major...just some road rash and a big bruise where I must have landed on my outer left thigh.  No helmet contact with the pavement.  Ruined a nice jersey and put a hole in my favorite bibs.  I suspect tomorrow will be tough.  I will be "stove up" as we say in the south. 

There were 3 of us that went down and I have no idea what happened but I think my rear wheel got clipped given how I went down and the direction.  Girl that went down cracked her helmet and was shaken up but getting reports she is ok.  Amazing how fast these things happen.  

Front end of bike was knocked out of alignment but hopefully it can just be straightened out and nothing got too torqued out. 

Stay safe out there!



2016-05-06 11:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Youch. Randy,sorry to hear about your crash. Any time you slide on the pavement it isn't a good thing, no matter how slow you were going. How's the knee doing?


I have a question for the masses: cadence on the bike. Anyone have thoughts on cadence? I've read from Dan Empfield several times over the years that he thinks as events get longer, cadence gets lower. Sprint races might end up with a cadence in the high 90s, all day endurance events (or longer) might end up in the 70s. Lance Armstrong, during his TDF winning days, was always a high cadence guy. Chrissie Wellington, while destroying everyone in the world at the IM distance, was typically a low 70s person.

I seem to naturally default in to the high 80s. Last IM, when I looked at the data, my average cadence for the race was 88. If I drop too low it feels like I am using too much muscle to grind through a race. Higher cadence has never bothered me at all, even spinning up to the low 100s. But, give me a couple sets with cadence in the 60s and I can certainly feel it.

This comes up because I am doing a lot of low cadence work right now. 60s. 70s. It feels hard but I notice that being in the low 80s now feels pretty easy. I think my coach is trying to "reset" my cadence to a lower number to see if it makes me a faster cyclist/better triathlete.

I know that some people believe that cadence, like running style, is a very personal thing and that you should go at the cadence that feels right to you. Just wondered if anyone here had strong opinions on this? Thoughts on optimum cadence?

Edited by wannabefaster 2016-05-06 11:56 AM
2016-05-06 12:59 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Cadence is an interesting thing.  When I first started riding, I was told to make sure I was spinning at a cadence of at least 90, so I did.  This became comfortable to me.  And then I started reading things like, "cadence is self-selected" or "there is no ideal cadence for every person and every distance", so I continued riding at a cadence of around 90 because it was comfortable for me. 

Every once in a while, I would do an interval at a "low cadence" because I lacked the gearing to have it in my ideal 90-something range....and by low cadence, I mean anything that was 80-something, so not particularly low.

In my build up to Pucon 70.3, I had some workout that called for X minutes at a HR of 140 (without having power displayed on the screen, but still capturing it -- no peeking!!) with one interval at a cadence of 90, one at 80, 70, 60, and 50.  First time doing this ride, I knew for sure that my 90 cadence was going to give me the best power....and I was completely wrong! 

In playing with it more, I found that high cadence is comfortable while doing low power (warm-up, rest intervals, leisurely sections of group rides) and low-80's is comfortable for threshold and VO2 work (as comfortable as one can be doing threshold or VO2 work).  Lower cadence may result in lower HR, but at some point, my muscles fatigue too much and it's no longer beneficial for me.  So I've found my new self-selected cadence to be generally in the low-80's....and I can run off it as well, so I'm pretty happy where I am. 

Funny that four years of thinking I was doing a "self-selected" cadence of 90-95 was erased in a few short weeks!

2016-05-06 1:55 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
I'm most comfortable anywhere between 95-100 rpm. Down as far 90 and as high as 110 are totally doable for me, but beyond that in either direction and it starts to get to where it's uncomfortable to sustain for long periods if I'm really trying to put out power. I can keep under control as high as 130 but it is taxing on the cardiovascular system, and grinding away below 80 gets my legs sore pretty quick.

I do think that higher rpms will leave more in the legs for the run, so I'm not all that concerned with my high cadence style. But I do know that muscular force is a weakness of mine - working in more big gear work at low rpms will be a project for next year's offseason. The "ideal cadence" concept does seem to be totally subjective though from what I can tell. But I think it's worth being comfortable at a variety of cadences - just more tools at your disposal.
2016-05-06 4:24 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

I don't pay attention to cadence at all while riding.  I just shift when it feels appropriate.  Once in a while I do try to work on cadence in a sense that I will spin at a higher or lower cadence than what I normally would, but I don't actually target a specific number high or low.  Looking at my data after the fact, in general, I'm a lower cadence rider...usually in the 80-85 range for longer efforts...sometimes dipping into the high 70's if I'm climbing.  During a group ride when the gas is on though...I'll usually come up into the 90's.

 

2016-05-06 4:28 PM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Our cadence is self selected, but not really.

Power is the result of force on the pedal and how fast the pedal are turning around the crank.

Depending on the force we apply we are using slow or fast twitch muscle or a mix of the two. The "perfect" mix is at the force you apply when pedalling at threshold. The force is what is self selected not cadence We end up selecting the maximal cadence at the self selected optimal force.

Now the most endurant make-up is not to be all slowtwitch. There is an ideal mix of fast & slow twitch and size of fibers. Some fast twitch muscle can make a significant contribution to your performance. So it's worth developing some of your fast twitch fibers, or making them bigger. To do this you need to work at the right force.

Low cadence is less taxing on your aerobic system but utilizes more FT and hence tire more. Ideally you want to get the perfect mix of ST/FT/and size of muscle fiber. Knowing the force required to develop FT or ST allows one to design workouts at a given power and cadence to achieve that

If you like to drop your cadence to generate big watts it's because you have some FT fiber and you want to use them. FYI Nicole, I do watch your power, cadence and force. You have a good mix.

All theory, reality is the top cyclists work at all cadences to work the different systems in their bodies.



2016-05-07 6:41 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Originally posted by marcag Our cadence is self selected, but not really. Power is the result of force on the pedal and how fast the pedal are turning around the crank. Depending on the force we apply we are using slow or fast twitch muscle or a mix of the two. The "perfect" mix is at the force you apply when pedalling at threshold. The force is what is self selected not cadence We end up selecting the maximal cadence at the self selected optimal force. Now the most endurant make-up is not to be all slowtwitch. There is an ideal mix of fast & slow twitch and size of fibers. Some fast twitch muscle can make a significant contribution to your performance. So it's worth developing some of your fast twitch fibers, or making them bigger. To do this you need to work at the right force. Low cadence is less taxing on your aerobic system but utilizes more FT and hence tire more. Ideally you want to get the perfect mix of ST/FT/and size of muscle fiber. Knowing the force required to develop FT or ST allows one to design workouts at a given power and cadence to achieve that If you like to drop your cadence to generate big watts it's because you have some FT fiber and you want to use them. FYI Nicole, I do watch your power, cadence and force. You have a good mix. All theory, reality is the top cyclists work at all cadences to work the different systems in their bodies.

This is really well stated and makes sense to me: "The force is what is self selected not cadence We end up selecting the maximal cadence at the self selected optimal force."  The force we apply is really what dictates our cadence....and we all have that "just right" combination of force and cadence. Interesting discussion.

I really do not pay alot of attention to cadence  other than to look at it post ride.  When riding by myself or on the rollers I am almost always in the 88-91 range.   Typically a little higher in a race.  I have done low cadence high resistance sets before and it is interesting to see how that feels as compared to my self selected norm,

Jason-the right knee feels good.  Went down on my left side and my left "good knee" got scraped up a bit but nothing serious.  Good report on the bike as well.  Scuffs on the saddle and left shifter/brake hood.  Steerer tube survived and frame and wheels look OK. I really wanted to  go out and ride this morning with the group as this is likely our last cool set  of mornings.  But, I just felt that it was going to be too much work to convince my wife that I am fine.   So, guess I will spin in the garage to shake things out.

2016-05-07 3:42 PM
in reply to: slornow

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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

We've been enjoying some cooler, less humid weather as well.  It looks like it should be back to normal on Monday, so I'm enjoying it while I can!  Probably should have run today since tomorrow's going to be a little warmer, but my work week was a bit crazy, forcing me to push my track run to yesterday, so figured a long run the day after a track run would be a bad idea

I did ride this morning....did some aero testing with some HIM efforts and some threshold (40k TT) efforts in there.  RPE was completely out of sync with HR and power.  Everything felt harder than it should have, but since power and HR were in line, I told my brain to ignore my legs and hold my power targets.  May be due to the track run last night or may have just been a weird day.  But I'm happy to report that my legs obeyed!

Anyone racing this weekend?  Or have good training on tap?

2016-05-08 8:28 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
I did my first outdoor ride of the season yesterday (and my first outdoor ride with a power meter). My training plan called for a 1:45 steady state ride on the trainer and I really wasn't looking forward to it. I had a tube go flat that I had to change, and it was a beautiful day out, so I peeled off the trainer tire and took it outside.

A few observations:
1) Riding outside is much nicer that riding on the trainer
2) It requires a lot more attention to keep power steady on the road than on the trainer
3) My outdoor FTP is likely significantly higher than than my indoor FTP - the ride called for 90 min @ 85-90% of FTP. After a warmup I settled into that but it felt too easy - I ended up riding for about 1:40 @ 90-95% FTP, which if you remember from my previous adventure should have felt pretty brutal by the end but it wasn't even close yesterday - felt like I could have just kept going. I'm thinking my outdoor FTP might be maybe 15W higher, I'll do a test eventually (bike's going back in the basement for tomorrow's ride).

What have other people found in terms of FTP difference inside vs outside?
2016-05-09 8:52 AM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Originally posted by SenatorClayDavis 

What have other people found in terms of FTP difference inside vs outside?

Mine are very, very similar.  I find threshold efforts to be slightly more manageable on the trainer than outside (I think it's partly mental, in that I have to have some bandwidth available for avoiding potholes, dogs, cars, other riders, etc. outside, while I can just bury my face in the stem inside), but long HIM to sweet spot efforts to be easier outside since I can tolerate (and even want) the mental distractions. 

I have a 40k TT coming up next month and am hoping to validate my FTP setting.  It's a (mostly) closed course on a smooth section of road, so should require too much more bandwidth than would be necessary on the trainer.

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