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2016-04-11 12:05 PM

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Subject: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
A friend of my put out this huge rant saying if you are not pro "you choice your gender and what bathroom you use" should not be my friend. It of course got me thinking about the whole thing. I agree with her that I do not think transgendered people pre/post op will go around raping people in bathroom/locker rooms. Even in the bathroom it does not seem like much of a big deal unless the male to female stands up and pees on the seat. sidenote Not sure why so many males pee in a toilet and will not even lift the seat up at work when we have urinals.

To me I think its more about comfortably especially in locker rooms. Interesting my conservative and liberal friends think you should choose base on your identity rather than what you got downstairs and look at Europe for example people who do not care. Ironically my immigrant baby mamma from Bosnia and her mom are completely against the idea. I asked my french friend but she never replied back.

Only person sort of against the idea was an ex gf and only if her daughters who are 4 and 2 would be there but figure family locker rooms kind of solve that issue.

I guess right now I am Pro bathroom con locker room but even locker room I am leaning to pro because I not found too many females against this idea. This is all for Pre op. If your hardcore and go post op then I say you are the new gender.









2016-04-11 3:21 PM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by chirunner134

A friend of my put out this huge rant saying if you are not pro "you choice your gender and what bathroom you use" should not be my friend. It of course got me thinking about the whole thing. I agree with her that I do not think transgendered people pre/post op will go around raping people in bathroom/locker rooms. Even in the bathroom it does not seem like much of a big deal unless the male to female stands up and pees on the seat. sidenote Not sure why so many males pee in a toilet and will not even lift the seat up at work when we have urinals.

To me I think its more about comfortably especially in locker rooms. Interesting my conservative and liberal friends think you should choose base on your identity rather than what you got downstairs and look at Europe for example people who do not care. Ironically my immigrant baby mamma from Bosnia and her mom are completely against the idea. I asked my french friend but she never replied back.

Only person sort of against the idea was an ex gf and only if her daughters who are 4 and 2 would be there but figure family locker rooms kind of solve that issue.

I guess right now I am Pro bathroom con locker room but even locker room I am leaning to pro because I not found too many females against this idea. This is all for Pre op. If your hardcore and go post op then I say you are the new gender.



This is all such a non-issue to me. I bet more people have been the victim of creepy bathroom behavior by sitting members of Congress than by transgendered people.

Is the concern that a male pedophile or sexual predator will pretend to identify as female for the purpose of going into a womens' locker to ogle naked women?
2016-04-11 4:02 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn


Is the concern that a male pedophile or sexual predator will pretend to identify as female for the purpose of going into a womens' locker to ogle naked women?


(note using quotes to help keeping my statements from being less confusing at least for myself. )

I am not even concerned about sexual predators but men in general. There are reasons strip clubs make money and people will pay for "hidden locker room cam" videos (I am sure and hope are fake).

I am really worried about women not feeling comfortable being around a naked "man". Isn't that why we have separate locking rooms to begin with? Isn't that one big reason there is no nudity in transition?

Like I said post op I have no issue with but pre op seems too easy to abuse. That being said my friend is worried about her "wife" being beaten up in bathroom / locker rooms by men if "she" uses the mens room.



2016-04-11 4:12 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by chirunner134 A friend of my put out this huge rant saying if you are not pro "you choice your gender and what bathroom you use" should not be my friend. It of course got me thinking about the whole thing. I agree with her that I do not think transgendered people pre/post op will go around raping people in bathroom/locker rooms. Even in the bathroom it does not seem like much of a big deal unless the male to female stands up and pees on the seat. sidenote Not sure why so many males pee in a toilet and will not even lift the seat up at work when we have urinals. To me I think its more about comfortably especially in locker rooms. Interesting my conservative and liberal friends think you should choose base on your identity rather than what you got downstairs and look at Europe for example people who do not care. Ironically my immigrant baby mamma from Bosnia and her mom are completely against the idea. I asked my french friend but she never replied back. Only person sort of against the idea was an ex gf and only if her daughters who are 4 and 2 would be there but figure family locker rooms kind of solve that issue. I guess right now I am Pro bathroom con locker room but even locker room I am leaning to pro because I not found too many females against this idea. This is all for Pre op. If your hardcore and go post op then I say you are the new gender.
This is all such a non-issue to me. I bet more people have been the victim of creepy bathroom behavior by sitting members of Congress than by transgendered people. Is the concern that a male pedophile or sexual predator will pretend to identify as female for the purpose of going into a womens' locker to ogle naked women?

lol, believe it or not I'm more on your side than the other when it comes to this issue.

I think the shock and awe of people reacting to it is based in part on the environment of fear our elected officials have created in the US.  If you let your kid play outside she will be kidnapped.  If you talk to a stranger, he will murder you and your whole family.  If you let a male into a female bathroom he will rape and kill everyone.
When it comes to public restrooms I've been using mens restrooms my whole life and I can't think of a single time I've ever seen a guy standing naked in one.  There could very easily be a woman in the stall next to me and I'd have no idea.
Sure, locker rooms are a little more exposed because people are fully dressing and undressing but from what my wife tells me about the women's locker room they're not galavanting around naked (contrary to my fantasies) like the guys do.  So perhaps, after a visit to the guys locker room a female to male transgender may very well be scarred for life as I have been.  lol

I certainly have my opinions on same sex attraction and transgender issues, but I will do everything I can to fight the false stereotype that good people are sexual deviants and cause a risk to others simply because of their gender attraction or identity.  That's just stupid.
Yes, there are gays and transgenders that are sexual deviants, but they're a minority and no different than the straight sexual deviants.  So, for lawmakers to enact legislation and people to react as if everyone is a sexual deviant is flawed logic.

2016-04-11 4:14 PM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by chirunner134
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Is the concern that a male pedophile or sexual predator will pretend to identify as female for the purpose of going into a womens' locker to ogle naked women?
(note using quotes to help keeping my statements from being less confusing at least for myself. ) I am not even concerned about sexual predators but men in general. There are reasons strip clubs make money and people will pay for "hidden locker room cam" videos (I am sure and hope are fake). I am really worried about women not feeling comfortable being around a naked "man". Isn't that why we have separate locking rooms to begin with? Isn't that one big reason there is no nudity in transition? Like I said post op I have no issue with but pre op seems too easy to abuse. That being said my friend is worried about her "wife" being beaten up in bathroom / locker rooms by men if "she" uses the mens room.

If men are allowed in the women's locker room there will likely be some beating going on, but I don't think it's in the same way your friend thinks.  

2016-04-11 4:33 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by chirunner134
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Is the concern that a male pedophile or sexual predator will pretend to identify as female for the purpose of going into a womens' locker to ogle naked women?
(note using quotes to help keeping my statements from being less confusing at least for myself. ) I am not even concerned about sexual predators but men in general. There are reasons strip clubs make money and people will pay for "hidden locker room cam" videos (I am sure and hope are fake). I am really worried about women not feeling comfortable being around a naked "man". Isn't that why we have separate locking rooms to begin with? Isn't that one big reason there is no nudity in transition? Like I said post op I have no issue with but pre op seems too easy to abuse. That being said my friend is worried about her "wife" being beaten up in bathroom / locker rooms by men if "she" uses the mens room.

If men are allowed in the women's locker room there will likely be some beating going on, but I don't think it's in the same way your friend thinks.  




Oh no you didn't.


2016-04-11 6:12 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  You ever walk into a woman's restroom by mistake?  Yeah, beatings indeed. 

I don't think this is an issue......and for sure I'm not about to speak for women and what they want/think....because I know better....and have the knots on my head to prove it. 

Think rationally about this for a minute.....so the fear is that a man will dress as a woman and something terrible will happen?  Uh.....what would stop some idiot from doing that now?  Are there beatings in bathrooms that I'm not aware of?  Lots of idiot men putting on wigs, a dress, and some heels to check out the scenery in the woman's room?? 

Chi - your friend's a bonehead.

The only potential issue that I can see is we need to educate our kids about gender identity issues.....it's not something that parents commonly talk about with their kids when teaching about sex issues.....at least it hasn't been my experience that they do.  Then again, I may not be giving kids enough credit.....they're generally smarter then I realize.

2016-04-11 7:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by Left Brain

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  You ever walk into a woman's restroom by mistake?  

I go to Lifetime fitness and every couple of years they redo the tile in the showers.  The tile crew is all men, so they do the mens locker first and then they switch them so the guys use the womens locker room for a couple weeks while they work on that one.
The first time they did it I half asleep walked to the entrance to the mens locker room and read the sign that said "womens locker room".  I just stood there not knowing quite what to do.  Three other guys walked up and all three of us just stood there frozen.  After a delay we cautiously walked over to the womens locker room (now mens) and tried egging each other on to go in first.  Finally, we all went in and it was like a playground.  There were guys yelling from the toilet area saying something like "they get vending machines in the toilet? WTF".  Then somebody else was commenting about how it's not fair that they get separate changing areas.
It was quite a surreal experience.  lol

2016-04-11 9:26 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

When I used to swim at a nearby gym, there were four or five times while I was swimming that I saw some poor guy inadvertently walk into the women's locker room from the pool.  I could usually sense when this was about to happen since he'd have to walk past the men's entrance to end up at the women's.  My favorite time was when some guy had obviously just made the acquaintance of a gal in the spa and was all excited and walking and talking with her as she strolled into her locker room.  That one was priceless.  Every time the exact same thing happened next.  Maybe six or seven seconds after going in, he'd come briskly walking back out, head down, tail between his legs, with a very serious, guilty expression on his face, making a beeline towards the men's locker room entrance.  I'm amazed I didn't drown watching it happen one of those times because I'd be laughing so hard with my face down in the water.

As far as the whole transgender bathroom thing, I really don't see a big issue with it.  It's been the state law for schools here for a couple of years or so, and neither one of my kids has seen or heard any issues at their schools.  Fast forward a couple of decades and maybe we'll see common locker rooms / restrooms in general.  Or not.  Who knows?

2016-04-11 9:48 PM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

When I was at a public pool in a small town in Switzerland there was just a single locker room for both men and women. There were private stalls within this locker room but people didn't even use them, everyone just changed their clothes in front of each other. I wonder how they feel about the transgender bathroom debate.

2016-04-12 8:02 AM
in reply to: #5176526

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
This bill is coming up in TN and it is not about a health club locker room here, but more about schools letting kids decide which bathroom they identify with. While an adult may be able to handle seeing a male in a female bathroom or vice versa I don't think it is the same thing for a 12 yr old.


2016-04-12 8:47 AM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by jford2309 This bill is coming up in TN and it is not about a health club locker room here, but more about schools letting kids decide which bathroom they identify with. While an adult may be able to handle seeing a male in a female bathroom or vice versa I don't think it is the same thing for a 12 yr old.

Yeah, and I think that's the rub, as I stated.  BUT, I don't think the answer is "they may not be able to handle it"......I think the answer is we need to educate them so that they can handle it.  I think that can be done. I'm not afraid of having that discussion with kids, and I'm OK with it.......I just never realized I needed to.

2016-04-12 9:38 AM
in reply to: #5176691

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Educate them how? Educate them that God made a mistake? Educate them that one persons feelings supersede others? Educate them that they can act on whatever feelings they have that day?

I know these are absurd questions but for elementary and middle school kids, how do you explain it?

I don't know of any transgender kids in my boys school, it's not a dinner time topic of conversation so I can't think there is a vast number here, but I am not in favor of schools letting kids use whatever bathroom and locker room they identify with.
2016-04-12 9:41 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
I should clarify. Its the men room not the ladies room where they are afraid the mtf will get beaten up in. Mtf's wife and her bf both say for the love of god use the ladies room because they do not want to see her get hurt.

2016-04-12 9:43 AM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by jford2309 Educate them how? Educate them that God made a mistake? Educate them that one persons feelings supersede others? Educate them that they can act on whatever feelings they have that day? I know these are absurd questions but for elementary and middle school kids, how do you explain it? I don't know of any transgender kids in my boys school, it's not a dinner time topic of conversation so I can't think there is a vast number here, but I am not in favor of schools letting kids use whatever bathroom and locker room they identify with.

Actually, no.....I would start with the premise that there was no mistake, anymore then it's a "mistake" then the one where my godson was born with his esophagus connected to his lungs and his windpipe to his stomach......no mistake, just nature....it's not hard to find other examples.  It's nature......it's doesn't have to be complicated with doctrine or "norms".

2016-04-12 10:00 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by Left Brain

Actually, no.....I would start with the premise that there was no mistake, anymore then it's a "mistake" then the one where my godson was born with his esophagus connected to his lungs and his windpipe to his stomach......no mistake, just nature....it's not hard to find other examples.  It's nature......it's doesn't have to be complicated with doctrine or "norms".




I agree with you on that one. With 7 billion people everything that is possible can and will happen. Nature has her own experiments to see if something works better for a species. Its part of evolution. I am sure in other animals it happens too its just hard for us to know and nothing they can do about it.


2016-04-12 10:02 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jford2309 Educate them how? Educate them that God made a mistake? Educate them that one persons feelings supersede others? Educate them that they can act on whatever feelings they have that day? I know these are absurd questions but for elementary and middle school kids, how do you explain it? I don't know of any transgender kids in my boys school, it's not a dinner time topic of conversation so I can't think there is a vast number here, but I am not in favor of schools letting kids use whatever bathroom and locker room they identify with.

Actually, no.....I would start with the premise that there was no mistake, anymore then it's a "mistake" then the one where my godson was born with his esophagus connected to his lungs and his windpipe to his stomach......no mistake, just nature....it's not hard to find other examples.  It's nature......it's doesn't have to be complicated with doctrine or "norms".

I'm actually on board with many parts of the overall tolerance movement because it honestly doesn't matter if it's nature or nurture.  What matters is that we're all decent human beings towards each other.

2016-04-12 11:26 AM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by jford2309

Educate them how? Educate them that God made a mistake? Educate them that one persons feelings supersede others? Educate them that they can act on whatever feelings they have that day?

I know these are absurd questions but for elementary and middle school kids, how do you explain it?

I don't know of any transgender kids in my boys school, it's not a dinner time topic of conversation so I can't think there is a vast number here, but I am not in favor of schools letting kids use whatever bathroom and locker room they identify with.


When my son was about two, I taught him that "Different people like different things". That's a surprisingly complex concept for a two-year old.They're almost entirely self-centered at that age, since their world up to that point revolves entirely around them. The idea that anyone would want to do something or feel something that's different than what they want or feel is hard for them to grasp.

Having eventually convinced him of the idea, it's amazing how many other "bigger" issues you can relate to that simple concept. Once your kid has an understanding of, and more importantly, an acceptance of the fact that not everyone is like him, and that that's not only ok, but really cool, these kinds of questions (about religion, politics, sexual orientation, Mets vs Yankees) become a lot less scary to work through.

He has an acquaintance at school (6th grade) who is almost certainly gay-- he's been wearing girls clothes to school since about 3rd grade. I would expect my kid, who's pretty easygoing and live-and-let-live to be fine with it, but it's been amazing to me to see that pretty much none of the other boys in his group seem to care at all. He's just a kid who likes to hang out with girls and do girl stuff. And the girls accept him as one of their own. If he was to decide to start using the girls bathroom or locker room at school, not only don't I think anyone would care, I think most of the kids would wonder why he hadn't been doing it all along.
2016-04-12 2:01 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

I think one of the issue we have with this debate is that there must be justification for why someone feels uncomfortable.  Just as the Transgender person feels uncomfortable with changing or using a bathroom that their gender identity is not associated with, a normal person feels uncomfortable changing in front of someone of the opposite sex.  Neither is wrong or right.  And there is no good solution.  But the idea that there must be some nefarious fear tied to the feeling of discomfort is the biggest problem.  That minimalizes a persons feelings and is not o.k. 

I personally don't care where I change at the gym.  You could put me in the middle of the free weight area and if that is where I have to change, so be it.  But I do not want my daughter having to change with men.  I shouldn't have to either.  There are locker rooms for people with male parts, and there are locker rooms for people with female parts.  Pretty simple.  

2016-04-12 2:13 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by velocomp

I think one of the issue we have with this debate is that there must be justification for why someone feels uncomfortable.  Just as the Transgender person feels uncomfortable with changing or using a bathroom that their gender identity is not associated with, a normal person feels uncomfortable changing in front of someone of the opposite sex.  Neither is wrong or right.  And there is no good solution.  But the idea that there must be some nefarious fear tied to the feeling of discomfort is the biggest problem.  That minimalizes a persons feelings and is not o.k. 

I personally don't care where I change at the gym.  You could put me in the middle of the free weight area and if that is where I have to change, so be it.  But I do not want my daughter having to change with men.  I shouldn't have to either.  There are locker rooms for people with male parts, and there are locker rooms for people with female parts.  Pretty simple.  

So I would not be normal?  I couldn't care less who I change in front of.  I can certainly understand your concern for your daughter around men....and if you are not comfortable then it is what it is.  I'm just trying to figure out how the fact that I don't care at all makes me not normal.  Wait......did you just "minimalize my feelings"? 

2016-04-12 2:16 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

What if we quit using "male" and "female" to designate restrooms.  Let's go with "penis" and "vagina"......nobody gets offended and the little pictures for people who don't read English would be worth the price of admission. 



Edited by Left Brain 2016-04-12 2:17 PM


2016-04-12 2:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Originally posted by Left Brain

What if we quit using "male" and "female" to designate restrooms.  Let's go with "penis" and "vagina"......nobody gets offended and the little pictures for people who don't read English would be worth the price of admission. 




That would also solve the people who feel they are genderless and the bigender people.
2016-04-12 2:36 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by velocomp

I think one of the issue we have with this debate is that there must be justification for why someone feels uncomfortable.  Just as the Transgender person feels uncomfortable with changing or using a bathroom that their gender identity is not associated with, a normal person feels uncomfortable changing in front of someone of the opposite sex.  Neither is wrong or right.  And there is no good solution.  But the idea that there must be some nefarious fear tied to the feeling of discomfort is the biggest problem.  That minimalizes a persons feelings and is not o.k. 

I personally don't care where I change at the gym.  You could put me in the middle of the free weight area and if that is where I have to change, so be it.  But I do not want my daughter having to change with men.  I shouldn't have to either.  There are locker rooms for people with male parts, and there are locker rooms for people with female parts.  Pretty simple.  

Dude, the world has never been simple. And modern technology is only muddling it further. This is Buck Angel. Google his name with your safesearch setting turned off and you'll see that he still very much has the vagina he was born with. I think it's safe to say that you, your daughter, and Buck would all all feel a lot more comfortable if he was not changing in the same locker room as everyone else with a vagina.





(buck angel.jpg)



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2016-04-12 2:42 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate
Yeah I like to use Bailey J and Buck Angel for my are you gay or straight test. .

2016-04-12 2:59 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Transgendered Bathroom/Locker debate

Originally posted by chirunner134 Yeah I like to use Bailey J and Buck Angel for my are you gay or straight test. .

What would Buck Angel, and whoever the other person is you mention,  possibly have to do with being gay or straight?  I don't get it.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-04-12 3:00 PM
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