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2016-04-19 2:03 PM


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Subject: Training masks to simulate altitude
Hi all,
Does anyone have an opinion on those masks used to simulate different altitudes to increase endurance? Are they safe? Do they work? Are they a gimmick, or is there real benefit? I live in an area of 950 feet elevation.

Thanks for the opinions!
Barry



2016-04-19 2:22 PM
in reply to: Burchib

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

They're worthless snake oil.  You may as well take your money and throw it in the trash.

The benefits of spending time at altitude are the result of the lower partial pressure of oxygen, which induces increased production of red blood cells.  Restricting your breathing with something like a mask mostly only increases stress your diaphragm, which does zilch for improving endurance sports performance.

 

2016-04-19 2:25 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by TriMyBest

They're worthless snake oil.  You may as well take your money and throw it in the trash.

The benefits of spending time at altitude are the result of the lower partial pressure of oxygen, which induces increased production of red blood cells.  Restricting your breathing with something like a mask mostly only increases stress your diaphragm, which does zilch for improving endurance sports performance.

 




Well, with a lighter wallet, one could climb a little faster.

Shane
2016-04-19 2:26 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by TriMyBest

They're worthless snake oil.  You may as well take your money and throw it in the trash.

The benefits of spending time at altitude are the result of the lower partial pressure of oxygen, which induces increased production of red blood cells.  Restricting your breathing with something like a mask mostly only increases stress your diaphragm, which does zilch for improving endurance sports performance.

 

Well, with a lighter wallet, one could climb a little faster. Shane
He's here all week, try the veal.

Edited by ChrisM 2016-04-19 2:27 PM
2016-04-19 2:46 PM
in reply to: ChrisM


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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Thanks all,
Going to save my $$ !!
Barry
2016-04-19 2:54 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by TriMyBest

They're worthless snake oil.  You may as well take your money and throw it in the trash.

The benefits of spending time at altitude are the result of the lower partial pressure of oxygen, which induces increased production of red blood cells.  Restricting your breathing with something like a mask mostly only increases stress your diaphragm, which does zilch for improving endurance sports performance.

 




Well, with a lighter wallet, one could climb a little faster.

Shane



Money better spent on some D3 to run the Boston marathon in a 3:02:-)


2016-04-19 6:05 PM
in reply to: Burchib

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Never used one. All they do is restrict the amount of air you can take in. Go to McDonalds and get a hand full of their straws and workout with two straws in your mouth, and breath thru them. It simulates the same thing. No Joke, used this a little before a hunting trip to Colorado.
2016-04-19 6:08 PM
in reply to: jareed58

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by jareed58

Never used one. All they do is restrict the amount of air you can take in. Go to McDonalds and get a hand full of their straws and workout with two straws in your mouth, and breath thru them. It simulates the same thing. No Joke, used this a little before a hunting trip to Colorado.


And neither has anything to do with altitude adaptations.

Shane
2016-04-19 6:21 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

But...but...LeBron uses one!!!

 





(LeBron TM.jpg)



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2016-04-19 6:51 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

So does this guy

2016-04-19 7:09 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

And this guy



2016-04-20 8:04 AM
in reply to: #5177993

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
The only thing I'll add is the fact it can "possibly" increase your VO2 Max though right? Or am I slightly mistaken? I wouldn't waste my money on one ever.
2016-04-20 8:40 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by Jason N

But...but...LeBron uses one!!!

 




He just got paid to have his picture taken like that!
2016-04-20 8:58 AM
in reply to: Bevie

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by Bevie

The only thing I'll add is the fact it can "possibly" increase your VO2 Max though right? Or am I slightly mistaken? I wouldn't waste my money on one ever.


No, but if you can find some test that proves it does, I would like to see them. (that way I can show you how the test parameters were flawed)
2016-04-20 10:07 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

Leanda Cave uses one and she won Kona.  It's gotta be good for triathletes then!

/pink

2016-04-20 10:17 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by axteraa

Leanda Cave uses one and she won Kona.  It's gotta be good for triathletes then!

/pink




The same year as Pete Jacobs





2016-04-20 10:19 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

So it lets you win Kona once and then you just disappear and never win again?

2016-04-20 10:22 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Originally posted by axteraa

So it lets you win Kona once and then you just disappear and never win again?




As someone who isn't going to win anyway, I'd be okay with that.
2016-04-20 10:24 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

I ran in college at a town with 7200 feet elevation.  Our Coach had a PhD in altitude training.  What I gathered from him is that if you are going to train at sea level you will have to do about 8-10% more volume training at sea level to achieve the same endurance.  So you can get the same endurance with out the elevation, but at a cost of increase impact on you joints and body.  My coach could write out dozens of formulas for altitude adjustments.  The NCAA had there own Altitude allowance for provisional qualifying times for the national meet.  According to my coach they only compensated for about half of what the true altitude adjustment was.  He figured we had to run a 1600m run about 5 seconds better at 7200 ft to provisionally qualify that we did running the same effort at sea level. So if you train at 7200 ft and then go to sea level and see a 10 second improvement in you time it seems pretty impressive, but you really are running equivalent races.  I assume the hype about these masks is that they spread a false notion that you are going to improve 10 seconds a mile but you aren't.  If you go up 7200 ft you are going to be 10 sec a mile slower regardless of weather you used the mask or not.  As others have mention there also is a blood adaptation that takes place at high altitude.  At high altitude your blood thins which increases the rate it delivers oxygen.  This change takes about 10 days achieve.  If you have thick blood and go from low altitude to high altitude you may experience short breaths for the first week and a hlaf.  If you are going to train at sea level and then race at over 7,000 feet get to the race location 10 days early if you have that luxury. Hot humid climate however cause this same blood adaptation. At the beginning of every summer you blood viscosity thins as you start to train in warmer temperatures.  7 years ago I trained for high altitude marathon (5851 feet average elevation)  while living in Oklahoma t 350 ft elevation.  I feared that I would get winded really quick on race day and have to slow down quite a bit but I didn't.  I found that it is much easier to breath while running in a cool dry high altitude climate than in a hot humid low elevation climate. I actually PR by quite a bit over the Marathon I did the year before in 80% average humidity @ 80 deg F average race time temperature in Oklahoma City.  Also, one summer when I was in high school I worked at a Scout camp located at over 10,000 ft elevation in the Rocky Mountains. When I got home I stated running with my high school cross country team at 350 ft elevation and the same guys that were faster than me before the summer high altitude experience with still faster than me. :-)



Edited by BlueBoy26 2016-04-20 10:31 AM
2016-04-20 11:04 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
This is actually very helpful. I live at sea level and I'm racing in Boulder this August so I'm reading everything I can get my hands on about how to prepare. In my mind the research was saying ... be very prepared for the distance and the terrain for the best chance. So this 10% number seems like a good metric to use. Thank you.
2016-04-20 11:36 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

Originally posted by axteraa

So it lets you win Kona once and then you just disappear and never win again?

probably too focused on their next career playing some type of wind instrument with their improved diaphrams. 



2016-04-20 11:41 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by axteraa

So it lets you win Kona once and then you just disappear and never win again?

probably too focused on their next career playing some type of wind instrument with their improved diaphrams. 

I dated a girl with an improved diaphragm once. don't believe the hype

2016-04-20 12:05 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

Originally posted by miamiamy This is actually very helpful. I live at sea level and I'm racing in Boulder this August so I'm reading everything I can get my hands on about how to prepare. In my mind the research was saying ... be very prepared for the distance and the terrain for the best chance. So this 10% number seems like a good metric to use. Thank you.

 

When I did my "High Altitude Marathon" I added about 10% to the long runs in the training plan I was following and added an extra repeat on speed days.  Compared to previous marathons I had trained for I figure I was equally prepared to race.  

I also adjusted expectations by adding 4-1/2 minutes on to my goal time.



Edited by BlueBoy26 2016-04-20 12:06 PM
2016-04-20 9:04 PM
in reply to: #5177993

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude
Shane says one with a lighter wallet will climb faster.... Is that why we dump wasteful money on coaches?
2016-04-20 9:24 PM
in reply to: AndyEWU07

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Subject: RE: Training masks to simulate altitude

Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Shane says one with a lighter wallet will climb faster.... Is that why we dump wasteful money on coaches?

Shane's got me climbing faster...so I suppose the answer is...yes?

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