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Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body
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 2016-05-11 8:30 AM |
Veteran 353   41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W |  Subject: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your bodyI'd like to hear thoughts on these conflicting goals. We train our bodies to get stronger and move oxygen in a more efficient manner, but we also train ourselves to become (at times) rather immune to pain and fatigue. In my own case, after some success at early races, I was able to push myself to the point of carrying on way outside my comfort zone. I was simultaneously developing a problem with a heart valve (unrelated to training). When I finally went in for tests, the cardiologist just looked at the results of my echocardiogram and said "how in the world were you able to walk briskly, let alone run?' Weren't you out of breath? I told him your darn straight I was fatigued, but I've almost gotten used to it. Turns out I needed heart valve surgery, and pronto. That story ended well. I'm back on the roads years later. More or less happy as a clam, even ok if people want to pass me. My brother was also a competitive athlete. Years ago he began to feel sore and fatigued. His back began to bother him more and more, then his ribs. He chalked it up to the training. He pushes himself so hard, and he knew he was getting older. But this is all part of the training breakdown and build back up mentality. No pain no gain. Then he began to develop very very serious pain in his back and ribs. Unbearable pain. He still tried to tuff it out, but ultimately felt compelled to go to the emergency room. They chalked it up to years of overtraining and gave him pain Meds. But after several more months of this he was back at the ER. They finally ran more tests and an MRI. Turns out he's been training, or attempting to train with stage IV prostate cancer. Here again, the doctors probably were wondering how this disease has progressed so far without him seeing the warnings. Blood in urine? Sure I've had that too. It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. Fatigue, constant fatigue? Sure, between the intervals and the bricks, of course. And the list goes on. I'm a full advocate of endurance training, and there is enough medical literature to make it quite clear the benefits outweigh the risks by a substantial margin (though I've even read bike riding can temporarily raise PSA levels in men). So I guess the message is that there's pain. And then there's pain. You have to know what is normal versus what is not. I don't profess to have the answers but I do clearly understand how it's possibly to dismiss the warning signs your body may be sending, as you try to push through and train on those bad days, even if those bad days start to pile up. |
| 2016-05-11 9:23 AM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body I think your subject line is asking the wrong question. Why on earth would someone want to condition themselves to "deal with pain" especially if self-inflicted like from poor training habits? I think the right question is "How do you know when pain and discomfort is a normal part of training, vs. something to go to the doctor about?" which is what you ask in your last paragraph. And you answered it yourself with phrases like "very very serious pain" and "unbearable pain". Training isn't about enduring very very serious, unbearable pain nor is it about "I'm in constant pain, but I'm so tough I don't need to see doctor about it". You don't see Olympic athletes or professional athletes like baseball players doing something like that. Instead, regular medical care is included. This is a good article on "good pain vs. bad pain". What you're describing is bad pain. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/orthopaedic-surgery/about-us/ask-the-experts/pain.html First, the pain should not last long after exercise. Pain that begins to affect your sports performance is not normal, and this may be more of a problem early in an injury for a high-caliber, competitive athlete than for the casual athlete who can more easily rest the injured part. Pain that does not go away with rest is not normal. Pain that begins to affect your function outside of sports, such as walking or sleeping, is not normal. Pain that is constant or increasing over time and does not go away is not normal. Pain that does not improve with treatment may be something to be concerned about. Pain that requires increasing amounts of pain medication over time is not normal, and you should consider seeing a physician. Pain that begins to wake you from your sleep is also a concern, especially if it increases over time. On the good pain front, if you were some 15 year career baseball pitcher, and your pitching arm was sore all the time, well then that's an acceptable pain. Right now my calves are sore from my 2500 yards swim & 56 mile bike on Saturday followed by 13.1 half marathon race on Sunday. Good pain. The plantar fasciitis I had in my left foot last summer was bad pain. It didn't go away with rest, and was affecting function outside of sports as in I could barely walk. I did something about it rather than just try to endure it, and now with my new calf rolling regime, my ankle flexes enough so that I'm not beating up my foot. Learned that from a doctor. |
| 2016-05-11 9:30 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 137 Birmingham, Alabama | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? Edited by marti038 2016-05-11 9:30 AM |
| 2016-05-11 9:31 AM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body When my bicuspid aortic valve started to deteriorate at first I chalked the symptoms (chronic fatigue & shortness of breath) up to lack of conditioning and just pushed myself harder to try to overcome it. It eventually got to the point where I was in the early stages of congestive heart failure. I had fluid backing up on my lungs to the point where I couldn't lie down to sleep without feeling like I was drowning and the inability to perform even routine daily tasks without becoming totally exhausted.. It also led to the development of left ventricular hypertrophy as was discussed recently in another thread. I had valve replacement surgery 15 years ago and have been fortunate to have a good outcome also. I feel both lucky and blessed in that regard. What my experience led me to was being much more aware of my health and becoming a better informed consumer of health care services. I monitor my vital signs on a regular basis and have annual checkups with both my PCP and my cardiologist. I'm turning 63 in a couple of weeks and my big concerns these days are more orthopedic (deteriorating knees & Achilles, Dupuytren's disease) and factoring in the need for more recovery time as I get older. I still push myself in workouts, but I think I've gotten smarter about knowing how hard to go and when to take a break. Certainly part of it is putting your ego aside as you age and accept the fact that you can't do some of the things you used to. I always like the lines from the Toby Keith song: "I ain't as good as I once was
Mark
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| 2016-05-11 9:43 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by brucemorgan I think your subject line is asking the wrong question. Why on earth would someone want to condition themselves to "deal with pain" especially if self-inflicted like from poor training habits? I think the right question is "How do you know when pain and discomfort is a normal part of training, vs. something to go to the doctor about?" which is what you ask in your last paragraph. And you answered it yourself with phrases like "very very serious pain" and "unbearable pain". Training isn't about enduring very very serious, unbearable pain nor is it about "I'm in constant pain, but I'm so tough I don't need to see doctor about it". You don't see Olympic athletes or professional athletes like baseball players doing something like that. Instead, regular medical care is included. This is a good article on "good pain vs. bad pain". What you're describing is bad pain. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/orthopaedic-surgery/about-us/ask-the-experts/pain.html First, the pain should not last long after exercise. Pain that begins to affect your sports performance is not normal, and this may be more of a problem early in an injury for a high-caliber, competitive athlete than for the casual athlete who can more easily rest the injured part. Pain that does not go away with rest is not normal. Pain that begins to affect your function outside of sports, such as walking or sleeping, is not normal. Pain that is constant or increasing over time and does not go away is not normal. Pain that does not improve with treatment may be something to be concerned about. Pain that requires increasing amounts of pain medication over time is not normal, and you should consider seeing a physician. Pain that begins to wake you from your sleep is also a concern, especially if it increases over time. On the good pain front, if you were some 15 year career baseball pitcher, and your pitching arm was sore all the time, well then that's an acceptable pain. Right now my calves are sore from my 2500 yards swim & 56 mile bike on Saturday followed by 13.1 half marathon race on Sunday. Good pain. The plantar fasciitis I had in my left foot last summer was bad pain. It didn't go away with rest, and was affecting function outside of sports as in I could barely walk. I did something about it rather than just try to endure it, and now with my new calf rolling regime, my ankle flexes enough so that I'm not beating up my foot. Learned that from a doctor. I've been in so many races. I've seen so many people gasping and even moaning over the years as they went by. My message is that sometimes it's hard to know what is normal. Heck, how many of us have bonked. I thoroughly disagree that well trained athletes with medical supervision know what is good and bad. We can start with the NFL. Years ago nobody knew they were actually playing through a series of concussions. Edited by JohnP_NY 2016-05-11 9:48 AM |
| 2016-05-11 9:50 AM in reply to: marti038 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by marti038 Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. |
| 2016-05-11 10:41 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by brucemorgan I think your subject line is asking the wrong question. Why on earth would someone want to condition themselves to "deal with pain" especially if self-inflicted like from poor training habits? I think the right question is "How do you know when pain and discomfort is a normal part of training, vs. something to go to the doctor about?" which is what you ask in your last paragraph. And you answered it yourself with phrases like "very very serious pain" and "unbearable pain". Training isn't about enduring very very serious, unbearable pain nor is it about "I'm in constant pain, but I'm so tough I don't need to see doctor about it". You don't see Olympic athletes or professional athletes like baseball players doing something like that. Instead, regular medical care is included. This is a good article on "good pain vs. bad pain". What you're describing is bad pain. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/orthopaedic-surgery/about-us/ask-the-experts/pain.html First, the pain should not last long after exercise. Pain that begins to affect your sports performance is not normal, and this may be more of a problem early in an injury for a high-caliber, competitive athlete than for the casual athlete who can more easily rest the injured part. Pain that does not go away with rest is not normal. Pain that begins to affect your function outside of sports, such as walking or sleeping, is not normal. Pain that is constant or increasing over time and does not go away is not normal. Pain that does not improve with treatment may be something to be concerned about. Pain that requires increasing amounts of pain medication over time is not normal, and you should consider seeing a physician. Pain that begins to wake you from your sleep is also a concern, especially if it increases over time. On the good pain front, if you were some 15 year career baseball pitcher, and your pitching arm was sore all the time, well then that's an acceptable pain. Right now my calves are sore from my 2500 yards swim & 56 mile bike on Saturday followed by 13.1 half marathon race on Sunday. Good pain. The plantar fasciitis I had in my left foot last summer was bad pain. It didn't go away with rest, and was affecting function outside of sports as in I could barely walk. I did something about it rather than just try to endure it, and now with my new calf rolling regime, my ankle flexes enough so that I'm not beating up my foot. Learned that from a doctor. Good post. I bolded some key parts, but I think the last part is the most valuable. If what you think is post-exercise soreness doesn't go away with rest, something is wrong, and a trip to the doctor is likely a good idea. "No pain, no gain" is the biggest crock of $h!t anyone every came up with. Things should never truly hurt, but we do need to get uncomfortable sometimes to improve. Sometimes very uncomfortable, like when we're on the last interval of a training session, or on the last stretch before the finish line.
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| 2016-05-11 10:45 AM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by marti038 That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? No, it's not silly. Blood in your urine is NEVER normal. There are times it can be harmless, but that still doesn't make it normal. And, off-colored urine, can be an indication of what's going on in your body. If it's just a bit dark, then it's probably just dehydration, and no big deal. If it's really dark, like the color of cola, then you should go to the ER immediately to rule out Rhabdomyolysis.
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| 2016-05-11 11:56 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by marti038 That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? No, it's not silly. Blood in your urine is NEVER normal. There are times it can be harmless, but that still doesn't make it normal. And, off-colored urine, can be an indication of what's going on in your body. If it's just a bit dark, then it's probably just dehydration, and no big deal. If it's really dark, like the color of cola, then you should go to the ER immediately to rule out Rhabdomyolysis.
It's quite common. There is a medical name for it, and you can read about it in medical journals all day. http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/8/2030.full All I'm saying is that - 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - abnormalities in body function or dull pain can be written off when you are constantly pushing yourself. Most amateur athletes do not have access to trainers and cannot afford frequent visits with a doctor each time they have a problem. In my brothers case a year or two of slight and then dull pain became unbearable pain over a couple of years. Had he not been training, I wonder if he would have picked up on it sooner. I'm only suggesting it's sometime hard to know, at the time. My son recently ran the 400 and 800 in high school track...with a stress fracture. So yes, the only logical answer is to see if symptoms go away after stopping all activity. But sometimes that's easier said than done. If you have a big race or some other goal in mind I'm not sure it's so easy to just stop. We are taught to be mentally tough. |
| 2016-05-11 12:24 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by TriMyBest It's quite common. There is a medical name for it, and you can read about it in medical journals all day. http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/8/2030.fullAll I'm saying is that - 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - abnormalities in body function or dull pain can be written off when you are constantly pushing yourself. Most amateur athletes do not have access to trainers and cannot afford frequent visits with a doctor each time they have a problem. In my brothers case a year or two of slight and then dull pain became unbearable pain over a couple of years. Had he not been training, I wonder if he would have picked up on it sooner. I'm only suggesting it's sometime hard to know, at the time. My son recently ran the 400 and 800 in high school track...with a stress fracture. So yes, the only logical answer is to see if symptoms go away after stopping all activity. But sometimes that's easier said than done. If you have a big race or some other goal in mind I'm not sure it's so easy to just stop. We are taught to be mentally tough. Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by marti038 That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? No, it's not silly. Blood in your urine is NEVER normal. There are times it can be harmless, but that still doesn't make it normal. And, off-colored urine, can be an indication of what's going on in your body. If it's just a bit dark, then it's probably just dehydration, and no big deal. If it's really dark, like the color of cola, then you should go to the ER immediately to rule out Rhabdomyolysis.
Yep, that's how people view it, and it's wrong. A significant percentage of my business is from fixing people who had that shortsighted view, and ended up with stress fractures, severe PF, ITBS, etc. (One athlete even had an artificial hip in her early 40's from thinking that pushing through was a good idea.) One of my favorite things to tell my athletes is that just because they CAN do something doesn't mean that they SHOULD do it. ETA: I forgot to respond to the blood in the urine thing...Again, just because it's semi-common doesn't mean that it's normal. Generally speaking, blood in urine is reason to consult with a doctor. ETA #2: Also, I really hope you didn't knowingly allow your son to run with a stress fracture. Please say that the fracture was only discovered after the meet?
Edited by TriMyBest 2016-05-11 12:27 PM |
| 2016-05-11 12:46 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body No, in my sons case I demanded that he be pulled out of school to see an orthopedist. He was not getting better. He was quite ok to continue with the rest of the season and did not want to risk sitting out for any part. His coach pushes those kids very hard. The results are good. Plenty of kids make it to compete in divisional or state events. But the workouts are grueling. My son reports it is quite common for kids to throw up during the interval training sessions. He comes home exhausted after these practice sessions, and is tired the entire week. But he loves being part of the 'psychos' who do the 800. Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by TriMyBest It's quite common. There is a medical name for it, and you can read about it in medical journals all day. http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/8/2030.fullAll I'm saying is that - 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - abnormalities in body function or dull pain can be written off when you are constantly pushing yourself. Most amateur athletes do not have access to trainers and cannot afford frequent visits with a doctor each time they have a problem. In my brothers case a year or two of slight and then dull pain became unbearable pain over a couple of years. Had he not been training, I wonder if he would have picked up on it sooner. I'm only suggesting it's sometime hard to know, at the time. My son recently ran the 400 and 800 in high school track...with a stress fracture. So yes, the only logical answer is to see if symptoms go away after stopping all activity. But sometimes that's easier said than done. If you have a big race or some other goal in mind I'm not sure it's so easy to just stop. We are taught to be mentally tough. Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by marti038 That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? No, it's not silly. Blood in your urine is NEVER normal. There are times it can be harmless, but that still doesn't make it normal. And, off-colored urine, can be an indication of what's going on in your body. If it's just a bit dark, then it's probably just dehydration, and no big deal. If it's really dark, like the color of cola, then you should go to the ER immediately to rule out Rhabdomyolysis.
Yep, that's how people view it, and it's wrong. A significant percentage of my business is from fixing people who had that shortsighted view, and ended up with stress fractures, severe PF, ITBS, etc. (One athlete even had an artificial hip in her early 40's from thinking that pushing through was a good idea.) One of my favorite things to tell my athletes is that just because they CAN do something doesn't mean that they SHOULD do it. ETA: I forgot to respond to the blood in the urine thing...Again, just because it's semi-common doesn't mean that it's normal. Generally speaking, blood in urine is reason to consult with a doctor. ETA #2: Also, I really hope you didn't knowingly allow your son to run with a stress fracture. Please say that the fracture was only discovered after the meet?
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| 2016-05-11 4:35 PM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Pro 4578 Vancouver, BC | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body I don't have the answers either but it made me think about a crash I had while racing my bike in the velodrome this past January. I crashed over my handlebars and another ride who fell in front of me and hit my head while sprinting in a points race. I usually sprint over 50km/hr, so I figure I was probably going about that speed. My tooth went through my lip and my helmet was crumpled and my shoulder was a bit sore. I got home and friends took me to the ER. My SO met me there. I wasn't in much pain actually, but thought I should get checked out. My SO kept tell me, you have to tell the doctor it hurts if you feel anything at all. We probably have pretty high pain tolerances, so he was worried that the doctor might miss something if it didn't hurt. In the end I had a CT scan on my head and chest and x-rays on my head, chest and shoulders and all was clear. So I don't know the answer either. |
| 2016-05-12 12:13 PM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
| 319 Sarasota, Florida | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body I have never thought of it as conditioning through pain. Pain is a sign something is wrong. Exercise takes effort yes, and you might get some soreness through lactic acid etc, but to me it's a distinct difference. Questions about pain go to the doctor. I have had some mild pains come and go which I ignore, blisters splints etc, but typically reoccurring pain eventually gets me to the doctor if it doesn't go away or gets worse. |
| 2016-05-12 12:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Jr. was just diagnosed with mono.....nobody listened to what he was saying, because he didn't even know how to frame it. To make along story short, he knew for the last month that he "didn't feel right". First, he quit swimming because he was losing time in the pool and didn't understand why. He figured he'd work on it after track season but track was more important right now. He was racing and even put up some good numbers......1:54 800, 4:21 mile.....but after each race he said he felt like hell, could barely hold on, etc. All we got from him, no matter what work he just did or how it looked, was "that felt terrible, I suck". He had been sick back in March....high fever, sore throat, rash, etc...but a course of antibiotics seemed to take care of it. He'd been competing all Spring and had not lost a race in the 800 or mile. Two weeks ago he was beaten in the mile and complained that he had no power and felt sluggish. It was prom weekend so we all blew it off as a bit of fatigue. About a month prior he has said, "dad, I get winded just walking up the stairs, do you think I could have mono or something?" I blew that off too since he had ran 1:55 3 days earlier in an 800. My brother had mono as a kid.....I knew what it had done to him. Last Friday he ran a 2 mile in 9:47.....a bit off for him and way off of where he thought he'd be (closer to 9:15). He got done and said his legs felt like they weighed 1000 lbs. We gave him the weekend off and when he went to his treadmill work on Monday he had to stop after only two intervals. He called the coach who recruited him for college and gave him the rundown.......without missing a beat he says, "have you been sick in the last month or so?"......finds out he has and suggests mono.....bingo. In talking to the coach I found out that he'd had 3 athletes who had contracted mono.....each story was very similar to my son's. Highly trained athletes who could still put down some decent workouts/races, but then found themselves in a big hole due to not being able to recover. In short......nobody acted on signs that something was wrong. (my kid started saying he was "afraid" to race because he was just getting slower....we thought it was mental from the way he was talking) We are now dealing with a swollen spleen caused from "dealing with the pain". He's shut down for 6-8 weeks. In short.....I'd agree with what a few of the posts here have said.....if it doesn't feel right or if you feel like something is just wrong, stop and get an answer. You can certainly learn to deal with some pain......but in some cases you absolutely should not. Get medical advice. ETA - apologize for the convoluted post....trying to keep too many balls in the air. Edited by Left Brain 2016-05-12 12:49 PM |
| 2016-05-12 4:09 PM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Master 4452 | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by TriMyBest It's quite common. There is a medical name for it, and you can read about it in medical journals all day. http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/8/2030.fullAll I'm saying is that - 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - abnormalities in body function or dull pain can be written off when you are constantly pushing yourself. Most amateur athletes do not have access to trainers and cannot afford frequent visits with a doctor each time they have a problem. In my brothers case a year or two of slight and then dull pain became unbearable pain over a couple of years. Had he not been training, I wonder if he would have picked up on it sooner. I'm only suggesting it's sometime hard to know, at the time. My son recently ran the 400 and 800 in high school track...with a stress fracture. So yes, the only logical answer is to see if symptoms go away after stopping all activity. But sometimes that's easier said than done. If you have a big race or some other goal in mind I'm not sure it's so easy to just stop. We are taught to be mentally tough. Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by marti038 That's silly. In neither case is it cool aid. Trace amounts, and slightly off colored urine. Originally posted by JohnP_NY It's a medical fact that athletes will show up with blood in urine after a grueling race like a marathon. It is? You talking trace amounts here or are we squirting fruit punch kool-aid? No, it's not silly. Blood in your urine is NEVER normal. There are times it can be harmless, but that still doesn't make it normal. And, off-colored urine, can be an indication of what's going on in your body. If it's just a bit dark, then it's probably just dehydration, and no big deal. If it's really dark, like the color of cola, then you should go to the ER immediately to rule out Rhabdomyolysis.
I think that it is important to distinguish between discomfort and pain. Pain is always a problem. Discomfort or soreness are par for the course. Although I can appreciate the sentiment, is the last line of that article a little......strange? "There is not much known about the treatment or prevention of exercise-related macroscopic haematuria, but running without completely voided bladder [5] and preventing dehydration [7] by high fluid intake, even in the form of beer, have been advised [8]" |
| 2016-05-12 4:23 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 4452 | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by Left Brain Jr. was just diagnosed with mono.....nobody listened to what he was saying, because he didn't even know how to frame it. To make along story short, he knew for the last month that he "didn't feel right". First, he quit swimming because he was losing time in the pool and didn't understand why. He figured he'd work on it after track season but track was more important right now. He was racing and even put up some good numbers......1:54 800, 4:21 mile.....but after each race he said he felt like hell, could barely hold on, etc. All we got from him, no matter what work he just did or how it looked, was "that felt terrible, I suck". He had been sick back in March....high fever, sore throat, rash, etc...but a course of antibiotics seemed to take care of it. He'd been competing all Spring and had not lost a race in the 800 or mile. Two weeks ago he was beaten in the mile and complained that he had no power and felt sluggish. It was prom weekend so we all blew it off as a bit of fatigue. About a month prior he has said, "dad, I get winded just walking up the stairs, do you think I could have mono or something?" I blew that off too since he had ran 1:55 3 days earlier in an 800. My brother had mono as a kid.....I knew what it had done to him. Last Friday he ran a 2 mile in 9:47.....a bit off for him and way off of where he thought he'd be (closer to 9:15). He got done and said his legs felt like they weighed 1000 lbs. We gave him the weekend off and when he went to his treadmill work on Monday he had to stop after only two intervals. He called the coach who recruited him for college and gave him the rundown.......without missing a beat he says, "have you been sick in the last month or so?"......finds out he has and suggests mono.....bingo. In talking to the coach I found out that he'd had 3 athletes who had contracted mono.....each story was very similar to my son's. Highly trained athletes who could still put down some decent workouts/races, but then found themselves in a big hole due to not being able to recover. In short......nobody acted on signs that something was wrong. (my kid started saying he was "afraid" to race because he was just getting slower....we thought it was mental from the way he was talking) We are now dealing with a swollen spleen caused from "dealing with the pain". He's shut down for 6-8 weeks. In short.....I'd agree with what a few of the posts here have said.....if it doesn't feel right or if you feel like something is just wrong, stop and get an answer. You can certainly learn to deal with some pain......but in some cases you absolutely should not. Get medical advice. ETA - apologize for the convoluted post....trying to keep too many balls in the air. I'm glad that your son is now on the path to wellness. I think the bolded above is very good advice. Trust your gut. Best wishes to your boy for a speedy recovery. |
| 2016-05-12 9:31 PM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
| 1508 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body When I was 16 years old I tore ligaments in my knee at a high school wrestling tournament. I was winning 8-2 and was so disappointing about having to forfeit the match that the pain of the injury was only and after thought. The following year I separated my elbow wrestling at a home meet in front of half our school. Again I was so focused on the match that the pain didn't really register. Ya I know my are hurt, but I could manage pain. I glanced up in the stands and saw several girls standing up in the stands gasping and as their face turned white covering their face with their hand. Seeing their shock it dawned on me that their may be something wrong with my arm (more than just pain) so I looked at my elbow and saw the bone pocking out the front of the arm. I had already lost one year to injury and I instantly knew this was going to be another lost season and I was so frustrated that again the pain was an after thought. My brother has told everyone since then that I have a high pain tolerance. I didn't agree with him though until I was in a car wreck last July. My wife hit a full grown bull moose. People don't normally survive hitting an animal that big. I don't remember anything of the accident. I only remember a few things from the Emergency Room. Laying in the ER unconscious all my family though I was a goner and were prepared for the worst. One of the few things I remember from the ER was a nurse asking me if she could get me any pain medicine. I am not big on taking medication and only do so as a last resort. So when I was asked if they could give me some pain medicine I evaluated my pain and though to myself Marathons hurt worse than this and I do them for recreation. I laughed and told the nurse that I was doing fine and didn't want any pain medicine. So...yes we do train our self to endure pain and do it well. As far as other problems that we may miss because we tolerate pain, I can't speak to that I would probably be the one with something serious that I just endure. |
| 2016-05-12 10:27 PM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
| 319 Sarasota, Florida | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body That's quite a history you have and I see your point. Perhaps it's because I've never done anything greater than a half marathon. I hate fading back into gray complexities but surely we can tell a difference? I mean the pain from getting a tooth drilled is not the same as being shocked by an electric fence nor is the pain from running. The question of does running mentally condition us to pain is perhaps valid, but surely you can tell the difference? Does it all just blend together into an endorphin induced cocktail at the end of a marathon? I admit if I haven't trained in a while and torture myself with a 10 mile run the pain from lack of training is not the same as the more pleasurable pain of pushing myself harder after training but luckily my body gives me signs like onset dizziness, cramping, joint aches, fatigue so I know to cool it down before I meltdown. To me it's better to listen, but I can understand how I would be much more stubborn if I committed to something bigger. |
| 2016-05-12 11:38 PM in reply to: runtim23 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Sometimes I wonder if people who have a high tolerance for pain self-select for endurance sports, rather than the sport developing the ability to ignore the body's signals and to tolerate high degrees of pain (although I'm sure the latter's also the case). Just thinking back to when I was a kid, before I started seriously in running or swimming, I was really good at a part of our physical fitness test called the flexed arm hang, which consists of hanging onto a bar until your arms give out and you fall off. Everyone else would last 20-30 seconds, then let go. I would just stay on there until my arms and fingers were completely in spasms and I simply could no longer control my upper body any more. I held the national age record in that for years, with no training. I can also recall getting teeth pulled with no painkiller (at age 10 or 11) when I got braces, because I hated the numbness more than pain. My father has never been a seriously competitive athlete (in his prime he did a 4:20 marathon) but he when he was younger, he finished races with bleeding cuts from falls that required stitches and claimed not to even notice. In his older years he has had a heart attack and a broken hip, and not gotten medical attention for several days because he thought it was a pulled muscle and "no big deal". I think we both have some kind of genetically high pain tolerance, or maybe a mental ability to block out pain, that has at least in my case, helped us perform well as endurance athletes, but can also put us in danger of not getting medical attention when we need it. I know now to watch out for this with him, and with myself. |
| 2016-05-15 8:52 PM in reply to: runtim23 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by runtim23 That's quite a history you have and I see your point. Perhaps it's because I've never done anything greater than a half marathon. I hate fading back into gray complexities but surely we can tell a difference? I mean the pain from getting a tooth drilled is not the same as being shocked by an electric fence nor is the pain from running. The question of does running mentally condition us to pain is perhaps valid, but surely you can tell the difference? Does it all just blend together into an endorphin induced cocktail at the end of a marathon? I admit if I haven't trained in a while and torture myself with a 10 mile run the pain from lack of training is not the same as the more pleasurable pain of pushing myself harder after training but luckily my body gives me signs like onset dizziness, cramping, joint aches, fatigue so I know to cool it down before I meltdown. To me it's better to listen, but I can understand how I would be much more stubborn if I committed to something bigger. I'm actually referring to something beyond "pain". And maybe the title of the post is misleading. I'm also thinking about constant or unusual fatigue. I'm thinking about general soreness or aches. I think if you are pushing yourself to extremes you will have very many days where you feel wiped or even awful, and you ask yourself "is this normal". Last summer I trained through what was later probably strep throat. I felt horrible. But then I felt a bit better. So I did some workouts, then I felt horrible again. I finally saw a doctor. He told me that there was ample evidence my body was fighting something but that the exercise was making it hard for my body to muster the resource to fight the bug. I'll hit days when I feel horrible and a week off is the magic solution. Other times I'll feel sluggish and I'll eventually pull myself out of it. Heck, I had a dull lower back pain today and it got better after about 25 miles into a 40 mile bike ride. Why? No idea whatsoever. |
| 2016-05-16 1:29 AM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Probably endorphins--you are releasing the body's natural painkillers, which are enough to take care of a lot of minor aches and pains that probably aren't that serious, and sometimes mask things that are. Don't want to give TMI, but for me and probably many women at a certain time of the month, exercise is the only thing that really helps with cramps, headaches, and the like. Plus it could also be possible that the backache was muscular tension from sitting in a particular position for too long, and while riding you managed to get the muscles loosened out and get rid of the original discomfort. |
| 2016-05-16 7:22 AM in reply to: #5181243 |
| 74 | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Quite a misleading thread title, didn't expect discussing the seriousness of heart valve problems or cancer, thought it was more about overcoming when your quads beg for mercy when cresting a 15% grade or something. Of course we all want to be tough and be 100% healthy... this is an issue faced by more than just for triathletes. People of all walks of life ignore their bodily signals that something is out of whack and dont seek medical attention for any combination of reasons. Call it a problem, call it whatever you want but we should always be mindful of what our body is trying to tell us and not be afraid or hesitant to seek medical attention. |
| 2016-05-16 7:56 AM in reply to: JohnP_NY |
| 319 Sarasota, Florida | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by JohnP_NY Originally posted by runtim23 That's quite a history you have and I see your point. Perhaps it's because I've never done anything greater than a half marathon. I hate fading back into gray complexities but surely we can tell a difference? I mean the pain from getting a tooth drilled is not the same as being shocked by an electric fence nor is the pain from running. The question of does running mentally condition us to pain is perhaps valid, but surely you can tell the difference? Does it all just blend together into an endorphin induced cocktail at the end of a marathon? I admit if I haven't trained in a while and torture myself with a 10 mile run the pain from lack of training is not the same as the more pleasurable pain of pushing myself harder after training but luckily my body gives me signs like onset dizziness, cramping, joint aches, fatigue so I know to cool it down before I meltdown. To me it's better to listen, but I can understand how I would be much more stubborn if I committed to something bigger. I'm actually referring to something beyond "pain". And maybe the title of the post is misleading. I'm also thinking about constant or unusual fatigue. I'm thinking about general soreness or aches. I think if you are pushing yourself to extremes you will have very many days where you feel wiped or even awful, and you ask yourself "is this normal". Last summer I trained through what was later probably strep throat. I felt horrible. But then I felt a bit better. So I did some workouts, then I felt horrible again. I finally saw a doctor. He told me that there was ample evidence my body was fighting something but that the exercise was making it hard for my body to muster the resource to fight the bug. I'll hit days when I feel horrible and a week off is the magic solution. Other times I'll feel sluggish and I'll eventually pull myself out of it. Heck, I had a dull lower back pain today and it got better after about 25 miles into a 40 mile bike ride. Why? No idea whatsoever. They say statistically guys are slower to see the doc and while I don't believe in becoming a hypochondriac I think it's smart to see the doc if something doesn't feel right. I don't like slowing down which is one reason I'm slow to make appointments but in the meantime I take careful notes of habits and symptoms. A while back I posted a thread called slow developing injuries. I had a mild knee pain during cycling which was odd because as you described I could peddle the pain out but it seemed to occur for 20 minutes at least every ride. Well, after a month the pain just disappeared and I haven't had it in a few months. I do some weight training and noticed some of the gym machines weren't centered so switched to free weights. Maybe there was a connection maybe not. I have had a couple other similar experiences but these were minor annoyances. I think if something was not getting better whether it was poor performance, fatigue, or pain I would eventually see the doc and not deny it. The other problem is becoming used to waiting for a pain hoping it will go away just to find out a year later its cancer. There are all kinds of serious examples like Lou Gehrig, who claimed he felt like he had lead in his feet rounding the bases to find out it was ALS. Sure everyone has bad days and I'm not trying to scare anyone but If it doesn't feel right, I think it deserves your attention and should eventually go to the doc if it doesn't get better. |
| 2016-05-16 10:11 AM in reply to: PBT_2009 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body Originally posted by PBT_2009 Quite a misleading thread title, didn't expect discussing the seriousness of heart valve problems or cancer, thought it was more about overcoming when your quads beg for mercy when cresting a 15% grade or something. Of course we all want to be tough and be 100% healthy... this is an issue faced by more than just for triathletes. People of all walks of life ignore their bodily signals that something is out of whack and dont seek medical attention for any combination of reasons. Call it a problem, call it whatever you want but we should always be mindful of what our body is trying to tell us and not be afraid or hesitant to seek medical attention. The premise is that as we train we forget what normal feels like. Or some of us anyway. Most of us are pushing ourselves to get to the next level. 99% of the time it's probably all good. Here's another example. After long runs 10+ I used to have very bad pain in my ankles. Sometimes I couldn't walk the day after. I went to the orthopedist. He did x rays tads yards and said nothing is wrong with me. He further suggested that running 20-30 miles a week probably wasn't good for me. But I didn't want to stop. I tried different shoes etc. with limited success. But it was painful. But here it is years later and I just don't have that pain anymore. I have no clue why. I used to have a very sore shoulder from swimming. Same thing. I've have t had a sore shoulder like that in at least 5 years. But I remember that shoulder being sore and me wondering if I was going to have to DNS a race. Somehow I always managed to get through it. |
| 2016-05-16 11:05 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 319 Sarasota, Florida | Subject: RE: Conditioning yourself to deal with pain vs listening to your body I know a day will come where I will have to make a decision. Continue running like I am and risk injury, reduce length and intensity, or quit running all together. Best outlook I take option 2, dwindling down to the point I must stop. I don't think I will push myself through any significant pain unless the doctors tell me it isn't injuring me but even then I might lose my drive at that point. We're all in this queue and it's final taper is one I'm not looking forward to but will have to accept. In the meantime I try to not do things that produce pain. Don't mind some discomfort, reminds me that I'm still lucky to invite its company and adds to the experience of life while enjoying some days in the sun. To me there is a distinct difference but I do wonder if there will come a time when it blurs. Not sure if that will be because I'll find myself on the last miles of an IM or the more probable scenario of simply finding myself on the tail end of my 60s. Edited by runtim23 2016-05-16 11:30 AM |
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