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2006-09-06 12:14 PM

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Subject: Faster swim time with proper kick
Hello all - I was just wondering if anyone can share the time difference between swimming with a proper kick compared to swimming without much of a kick? I usually swim with very little kick and am just curious as to what I could expect if I learned to kick properly.


2006-09-06 2:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
It all depends...

Your kick doesn't usually provide much propulsion, so the direct effect (all other things being equal) will be pretty minimal (probably <10% faster). Unfortunately, you can't get to this hypothetical situation, so once you stop kicking, your legs start to drag, changing your body position and amount of roll and pretty soon, you're just bobbing along barely making forward progress.

I find my speed increases a little but my effort decreases a lot when I'm doing pull drills with the float between my knees (no kicking, but a great body position). I'm working on adjustments to get a better position without the pull bouy.
2006-09-06 2:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
i know for me when i swim with what i guess is a "proper kick," i'm kicking constantly (or high candence) or barely kicking or light kicking, the frequency of kicks per stroke decreases. doesn't mean the quality of the kick changes or the form.

typically your kicking speed and stroke need to correspond to some degree. can't really kick really fast, and leisurely glide along on the strokes, and like stated above, if your moving your arms, and not keeping up with the legs, they tend to drag and slow you down completely.

also another thought about not kicking much could imply smaller kicks, so that your heals are underwater through the kick or barely breaking the surface of the water.

typically for a tri, i think you want to have more efficient stroke, than count on your kick to get you through the swim, due to biking. if you overkick like i did on my recent swim bike brick, your legs feel really dead for the bike.
2006-09-06 3:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
McFuzz - 2006-09-06 12:22 PM

It all depends...

Your kick doesn't usually provide much propulsion, so the direct effect (all other things being equal) will be pretty minimal (probably <10% faster). Unfortunately, you can't get to this hypothetical situation, so once you stop kicking, your legs start to drag, changing your body position and amount of roll and pretty soon, you're just bobbing along barely making forward progress.

I find my speed increases a little but my effort decreases a lot when I'm doing pull drills with the float between my knees (no kicking, but a great body position). I'm working on adjustments to get a better position without the pull bouy.


Cannot remember where I read it (TI?) or heard it (here?) that quite contrary to the popular belief that kicking makes you faster, improper kicking (and therefore ruining your 'glide' position through the water) actually slows you down significantly.

That's all I got.

BTW - I kick a 'quiet' 4-kick every right-handed stroke trying to keep my knees together as much as possible.
2006-09-06 7:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick

Okay, this is sorta off-topic, but should your feet/toes ALWAYS be straight? i.e. so there's a straight line running down the front of your tibia, top of your foot and top of your toes?

I think I often relax my feetand so they are positioned "normally" as in toes pointing ~90 degrees to my leg - which I would imagine sucks for being streamlined and reducing drag.

Any tips/thoughts?

thanks! 

2006-09-06 11:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick

The answer depends on your kick. I've been watching this - http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Faster-Swimmer-Freestyle-Swimming/dp/B00063E77I/sr=8-1/qid=1157601430/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1143778-1695163?ie=UTF8&s=dvd - and I'm pretty sure Tom Jager can swim faster than I can without using his arms at all. Whether he could bike and run after is another story.

When I swim in a tri, I just do one little kick per stroke to help keep my butt up and aid in rotation.  It might not be fast or right, but it saves my legs for the rest of the race.

If you are interested in the video, I will say that I tried some of it out (not the kicking part) tonight and cut my strokes per length down from about 20 to 14-15, at a slightly faster than normal pace. I am discovering some new muscles and my heart rate was pretty high, so time will have to tell if it is something I will use in my tri swimming. The video emphasizes very strong kicking, but the sections on hand technique and streamlining seem useful.



Edited by donmck 2006-09-06 11:12 PM


2006-09-07 1:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
tpetersen02 - 2006-09-06 2:01 PM

Okay, this is sorta off-topic, but should your feet/toes ALWAYS be straight? i.e. so there's a straight line running down the front of your tibia, top of your foot and top of your toes?

I think I often relax my feetand so they are positioned "normally" as in toes pointing ~90 degrees to my leg - which I would imagine sucks for being streamlined and reducing drag.

Any tips/thoughts?

thanks! 

Your feet at a 90 degree would create drag.  I suggest doing kicking drills with and without a kickboard your feet should be under the water creating less drag.  I also suggest using the pull bouy between your legs to get the roll down.  There is a timing and rythm to the stroke and I believe most distant swimmers kick minimally.  You will find that the harder and faster you kick your feet, they come out of the water which is what happens when you are sprinting.

 

 



Edited by tritwinmom 2006-09-07 2:01 AM
2006-09-07 8:31 AM
in reply to: #532357

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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick

Here is an article on improving your kick for faster swim times.

http://www.zoomers.net/new-muscleimbalances.htm

2006-09-07 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
I have also read that a bad kick (like mine!) will slow you down. On the other hand, a good kick (like my wife's!) can certainly speed you up.

Thank goodness for wetsuits! They take bad swimmers like me, and give us "good-swimmer" body position!

Seriously, if you've got a wetsuit, you can generally let your legs flow with the stroke. Maybe kick a little, but not enough that the turbulence slows you. The extra bouyancy of the wetsuit will keep you from dragging.

And remember, by not kicking, you are saving your legs for the bike/run. ;-) (Hey, any little justification is fine by me!)

By all means, if you have, or can develop a GOOD kick, do so. It can give you a 10% or so speed boost. But, if you can't, don't sweat it.
2006-09-07 10:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Faster swim time with proper kick
i used to be swimmer before i took up this crazy sport. for what it's worth and in MHO...i've found that any type of kick in this sport is done on a "need-to-use-basis".

meaning - and this is just for me -

kicking is mainly for aiding in helping for direction, balance and a burst of speed. if i see someone that is going at my pace or better off the start...im gonna swim/kick like hell to draft. if i need to get around someone, im gonna kick to "temporally" go faster to get around them. for the most part, my kick isnt as much of a focus as the way my arms move through/over the water.
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