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Height, flexibility and need for aero bars
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 2016-07-19 8:50 PM |
 353  |  Subject: Height, flexibility and need for aero barsI bought my road bike last Sept. and over the past 10 months have gotten pretty comfortable with the lower positioning vs. that of my previous hybrid. At first I found the handling very twitchy but have since gotten used to it and really appreciate the increased speed I have gained from making the switch. I know people swear by their tri bikes and aero set-ups. I was wondering if these types of variations are more impactful on people who are not very short (thus they must bend their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position) and those who aren't particularly flexible (thus they have a difficult time bending their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position). If you are very petite, with a short torso (which requires less effort to bend your body to an aero position) and considerable flexibility, is an aero tri set up going to make a big difference? |
| 2016-07-19 10:42 PM in reply to: Caroleena |
Master 2759   Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Yes it will make a difference. The most basic thing it provides is less frontal drag which equals more speed. More flexibility allows you to adjust your aero position lower so you're more aerodynamic. Even if you're not that flexible you still can get in and use the aero position using aero bars. I remember not being very flexible but working flexibility exercises almost daily got me to the most optimal position. |
| 2016-07-20 12:01 AM in reply to: Caroleena |
| 233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars I am just a newbie so don't take my word for much. But I think that unless you are doing long distance Triathlons I don't think you have much to gain from going aero. If your comfortable on the drop bars, I would work on picking up more time advantage working on your swimming, running and transition skills. Aero bars would be the very last thing I would consider to improve my triathlon performance....(my opinion). Although I don't see any of the elite pros using them in the ITU World Champion race series either, (Olympic Distance 25 mile bike leg) Long distance such as Ironman and half Ironman are a little bit different and the aero position very well could make a big difference in that situation. |
| 2016-07-20 4:06 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars The longer you're on any course.................the more advantage being aero is. That applies to everyone. ITU is draft-legal. Slightly different ballgame. I agree with you on one thing............I'd never put aero bars on my road bike. With the geometry of it, I don't see the point. In saying that, that doesn't mean it's not "more" aero (than not having them). It means I just wouldn't do it. I can't imagine it handling very well. |
| 2016-07-20 4:50 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena I bought my road bike last Sept. and over the past 10 months have gotten pretty comfortable with the lower positioning vs. that of my previous hybrid. At first I found the handling very twitchy but have since gotten used to it and really appreciate the increased speed I have gained from making the switch. I know people swear by their tri bikes and aero set-ups. I was wondering if these types of variations are more impactful on people who are not very short (thus they must bend their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position) and those who aren't particularly flexible (thus they have a difficult time bending their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position). If you are very petite, with a short torso (which requires less effort to bend your body to an aero position) and considerable flexibility, is an aero tri set up going to make a big difference? Here is a picture and position you can relate to by your questions in another thread Bottom right was your position on your hybrid Top right is your road bike on the hoods Top Left is your road bike in the drops Bottom left is a TT position A TT position reduces your "frontal" area, the area that catches air and creates resistance. You can see the area is bigger to smaller in the above order Is it significant ? VERY. Do you need a TT bike ? It depends. There are "in betweens" for every one of those positions. The ability to get you into a position depends on the specifics of the bike and you. Can you get close to the ideal position on a road bike with bars ? Yes, you can get closer.  Edited by marcag 2016-07-20 4:50 AM |
| 2016-07-20 4:57 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by rjcalhoun I don't see any of the elite pros using them in the ITU World Champion race series either, (Olympic Distance 25 mile bike leg) Actually, when it's a non drafting race the Elites (Brownlees, Gomez....), use a TT bike. For Oly. |
| 2016-07-20 5:46 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Caroleena I bought my road bike last Sept. and over the past 10 months have gotten pretty comfortable with the lower positioning vs. that of my previous hybrid. At first I found the handling very twitchy but have since gotten used to it and really appreciate the increased speed I have gained from making the switch. I know people swear by their tri bikes and aero set-ups. I was wondering if these types of variations are more impactful on people who are not very short (thus they must bend their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position) and those who aren't particularly flexible (thus they have a difficult time bending their bodies further to achieve the most effective aero position). If you are very petite, with a short torso (which requires less effort to bend your body to an aero position) and considerable flexibility, is an aero tri set up going to make a big difference? Here is a picture and position you can relate to by your questions in another thread Bottom right was your position on your hybrid Top right is your road bike on the hoods Top Left is your road bike in the drops Bottom left is a TT position A TT position reduces your "frontal" area, the area that catches air and creates resistance. You can see the area is bigger to smaller in the above order Is it significant ? VERY. Do you need a TT bike ? It depends. There are "in betweens" for every one of those positions. The ability to get you into a position depends on the specifics of the bike and you. Can you get close to the ideal position on a road bike with bars ? Yes, you can get closer. **WOW! Thanks so much for this! I can totally see the difference now  |
| 2016-07-20 5:50 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars I would say for anyone wondering about forking up money for a tt bike that clip ons on the road bike would be a good transitional move no? You can adjust SOMEWHAT, it does test flexibility and the beginning feel of that position without spending that extra amount of money. It was a route some people suggested here and after riding some time on them, you'll know when and if you're ready and want the full more proper bike. |
| 2016-07-20 6:05 AM in reply to: kloofyroland |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by kloofyroland Yes it will make a difference. The most basic thing it provides is less frontal drag which equals more speed. More flexibility allows you to adjust your aero position lower so you're more aerodynamic. Even if you're not that flexible you still can get in and use the aero position using aero bars. I remember not being very flexible but working flexibility exercises almost daily got me to the most optimal position. Thanks Roland! I am already pretty flexible and I thought I could reach the aero position using my road bike and just leaning forward really really far, but I can see now (esp by the pics Marcaq provided - thanks again!!) that that isn't the case... |
| 2016-07-20 6:07 AM in reply to: TJHammer |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by TJHammer I would say for anyone wondering about forking up money for a tt bike that clip ons on the road bike would be a good transitional move no? You can adjust SOMEWHAT, it does test flexibility and the beginning feel of that position without spending that extra amount of money. It was a route some people suggested here and after riding some time on them, you'll know when and if you're ready and want the full more proper bike. Would it be easy to switch between the aero bars and the drop bars, or once the aero bars are on, is it pretty much permanent? |
| 2016-07-20 6:09 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by rjcalhoun I am just a newbie so don't take my word for much. But I think that unless you are doing long distance Triathlons I don't think you have much to gain from going aero. If your comfortable on the drop bars, I would work on picking up more time advantage working on your swimming, running and transition skills. Aero bars would be the very last thing I would consider to improve my triathlon performance....(my opinion). Although I don't see any of the elite pros using them in the ITU World Champion race series either, (Olympic Distance 25 mile bike leg) Long distance such as Ironman and half Ironman are a little bit different and the aero position very well could make a big difference in that situation. I'm only doing sprints now - maybe an Olympic next year. And if I was to do anything longer than that, it would be a fluke and I wouldn't be apt to repeat it. I have no interest on training two a days, which I know would be necessary for the longer courses |
| 2016-07-20 7:42 AM in reply to: Caroleena |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena Originally posted by TJHammer I would say for anyone wondering about forking up money for a tt bike that clip ons on the road bike would be a good transitional move no? You can adjust SOMEWHAT, it does test flexibility and the beginning feel of that position without spending that extra amount of money. It was a route some people suggested here and after riding some time on them, you'll know when and if you're ready and want the full more proper bike. Would it be easy to switch between the aero bars and the drop bars, or once the aero bars are on, is it pretty much permanent? You'd put the clip-ons on your drop bars - it pretty much eliminates the tops as a viable position but you'll still have hoods and drops. The key with this is to setup the aero bars so they work with your road position, not dramatically change your position for the aerobars. Shane |
| 2016-07-20 7:46 AM in reply to: Caroleena |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena I'm only doing sprints now - maybe an Olympic next year. And if I was to do anything longer than that, it would be a fluke and I wouldn't be apt to repeat it. I have no interest on training two a days, which I know would be necessary for the longer courses Being more aero will help with pretty much all triathlon distances (unless you happen to have a point to point hill climb). If you watch the grand tours, like the Tour de France, if they open with a prologue (less than 8km), pretty much everyone will be on TT bikes so I wouldn't discount aero for 20km bike legs. Shane |
| 2016-07-20 7:52 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by rjcalhoun I don't see any of the elite pros using them in the ITU World Champion race series either, (Olympic Distance 25 mile bike leg) Actually, when it's a non drafting race the Elites (Brownlees, Gomez....), use a TT bike. For Oly. Not to mention that even in the ITU races, anywhere from 30-70% of the field will have aerobars at the elite level. Shane |
| 2016-07-20 2:33 PM in reply to: Caroleena |
| 201 Hereford, England | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLKcHyHPrc&list=PLcmaLnqmqDnmn_bCR0... Wind tunnel results from testing aerobars. |
| 2016-07-20 7:51 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Caroleena I'm only doing sprints now - maybe an Olympic next year. And if I was to do anything longer than that, it would be a fluke and I wouldn't be apt to repeat it. I have no interest on training two a days, which I know would be necessary for the longer courses Being more aero will help with pretty much all triathlon distances (unless you happen to have a point to point hill climb). If you watch the grand tours, like the Tour de France, if they open with a prologue (less than 8km), pretty much everyone will be on TT bikes so I wouldn't discount aero for 20km bike legs. Shane Not sure what "point to point hill climb" means, but the sprint I do every June is pretty hilly (rolling hills, but lots of em), which is one reason why I never seriously thought of purchasing a tri bike. Too many hills to conquer in the area that I live! |
| 2016-07-20 7:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Caroleena Originally posted by TJHammer I would say for anyone wondering about forking up money for a tt bike that clip ons on the road bike would be a good transitional move no? You can adjust SOMEWHAT, it does test flexibility and the beginning feel of that position without spending that extra amount of money. It was a route some people suggested here and after riding some time on them, you'll know when and if you're ready and want the full more proper bike. Would it be easy to switch between the aero bars and the drop bars, or once the aero bars are on, is it pretty much permanent? You'd put the clip-ons on your drop bars - it pretty much eliminates the tops as a viable position but you'll still have hoods and drops. The key with this is to setup the aero bars so they work with your road position, not dramatically change your position for the aerobars. Shane I always thought there were only two levels of bars on road bikes - the drops (bottom curved bars) and the hoods (top bars). To me it seems like the hoods are divided into two distinct areas: the front (bar across) and the top (looks like two points), (Actually, I had my LBS attach a second set of brakes on the hoods because I wasn't comfortable with not having them accessible when I ride on the hoods. So I have two sets of brakes on my bike. Not sure if that is something people do... but there you go!) Still confused about the hoods and the drops! Edited by Caroleena 2016-07-20 7:58 PM |
| 2016-07-20 8:54 PM in reply to: Caroleena |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena Not sure what "point to point hill climb" means, but the sprint I do every June is pretty hilly (rolling hills, but lots of em), which is one reason why I never seriously thought of purchasing a tri bike. Too many hills to conquer in the area that I live! Point to point means that you would be climbing up with no descending. For pretty much every triathlon in North America, a tribike would make sense (assuming the rider is competent riding the tribike). Something like the Alpe d'Huez Triathlon is where you want to start thinking road bike is a better fit. There are a few exceptions but they are just that - most of the time, aero is going to be your friend (assuming you want to go as fast as possible and have put in the time to be competent on your tribike). Shane |
| 2016-07-20 8:59 PM in reply to: Caroleena |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena I always thought there were only two levels of bars on road bikes - the drops (bottom curved bars) and the hoods (top bars). To me it seems like the hoods are divided into two distinct areas: the front (bar across) and the top (looks like two points), [\quote] Drop bars are what you typically see on road bikes; there are three hand positions, drops, hoods and tops. Pursuit (or bull horn) bars are what you see on tribikes; really only one hand position which should be similar to riding the hoods on a road bike. Tribikes have aerobars (either integrated or clip-on) with the shifters on the aerobars and brakes on the ends of the bull horns. If you put clip-ons on drop bars, you effectively lose the tops in exchange for aerobars but you'll still have the hoods and drops. (Actually, I had my LBS attach a second set of brakes on the hoods because I wasn't comfortable with not having them accessible when I ride on the hoods. So I have two sets of brakes on my bike. Not sure if that is something people do... but there you go!) Still confused about the hoods and the drops! I'm not sure I understand - when on your hoods you have access to your brifters (brake/shifter). Do you mean you had a cyclo-cross brake installed for when you are on the tops? Shane |
| 2016-07-20 9:16 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Caroleena I always thought there were only two levels of bars on road bikes - the drops (bottom curved bars) and the hoods (top bars). To me it seems like the hoods are divided into two distinct areas: the front (bar across) and the top (looks like two points), [\quote] Drop bars are what you typically see on road bikes; there are three hand positions, drops, hoods and tops. Pursuit (or bull horn) bars are what you see on tribikes; really only one hand position which should be similar to riding the hoods on a road bike. Tribikes have aerobars (either integrated or clip-on) with the shifters on the aerobars and brakes on the ends of the bull horns. If you put clip-ons on drop bars, you effectively lose the tops in exchange for aerobars but you'll still have the hoods and drops. (Actually, I had my LBS attach a second set of brakes on the hoods because I wasn't comfortable with not having them accessible when I ride on the hoods. So I have two sets of brakes on my bike. Not sure if that is something people do... but there you go!) Still confused about the hoods and the drops! I'm not sure I understand - when on your hoods you have access to your brifters (brake/shifter). Do you mean you had a cyclo-cross brake installed for when you are on the tops? Shane Yes, I had a second brake installed for when I was on the tops (don't know if it is a cyclo cross brake). Because at first I was very leery of the extra agility it took when I was on the tops to reach the brakes at the drops. I kept worrying that I would need quick access to the brakes while at the top and panic and miss the brakes. Funny thing was that once I got the second set of brakes installed I miraculously felt just fine with switching from my riding position in the tops to reach the brakes in the drops. All a psychological game, I guess... |
| 2016-07-20 9:18 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Caroleena Not sure what "point to point hill climb" means, but the sprint I do every June is pretty hilly (rolling hills, but lots of em), which is one reason why I never seriously thought of purchasing a tri bike. Too many hills to conquer in the area that I live! Point to point means that you would be climbing up with no descending. For pretty much every triathlon in North America, a tribike would make sense (assuming the rider is competent riding the tribike). Something like the Alpe d'Huez Triathlon is where you want to start thinking road bike is a better fit. There are a few exceptions but they are just that - most of the time, aero is going to be your friend (assuming you want to go as fast as possible and have put in the time to be competent on your tribike). Shane and here I thought I was all done with my bike upgrades! |
| 2016-07-21 7:04 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 721 Naptown, IN | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by Caroleena I always thought there were only two levels of bars on road bikes - the drops (bottom curved bars) and the hoods (top bars). To me it seems like the hoods are divided into two distinct areas: the front (bar across) and the top (looks like two points), Take a look at the pictures Shane posted in this thread for an example of drops, hoods and tops. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... Edited by mobey 2016-07-21 7:05 AM |
| 2016-07-21 9:24 PM in reply to: mobey |
| 353 | Subject: RE: Height, flexibility and need for aero bars Originally posted by mobey Originally posted by Caroleena I always thought there were only two levels of bars on road bikes - the drops (bottom curved bars) and the hoods (top bars). To me it seems like the hoods are divided into two distinct areas: the front (bar across) and the top (looks like two points), Take a look at the pictures Shane posted in this thread for an example of drops, hoods and tops. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... Thanks Mobey. Looks like the drops are what I usually ride in. The tops I use for steep hills (for extra power) and for when my body needs a rest from the drops (rarely for my rides that are an hour or less). I never ride in the hoods. Feels too unwieldy. |
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