Heart Rate targets for HIM
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2016-08-02 7:23 AM |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: Heart Rate targets for HIM I've done a little research on this, but I haven't trained an awful lot on keeping below my targets for the bike/run legs. We're typically hammering it pretty hard on our group rides and I know I can't (or, I'm pretty sure I can't) hit those type efforts for my race. So, I'm going in with HR #'s I want to target for certain parts of the race. Up-front....I am not worried about my overall time (within reason.....as in...it's not the number one thing I'm worried about). For a 70.3 race.....if you train by HR (or, coach or advise those who do), are there targets people try to hit on certain legs? My swim will be what it'll be. For the bike, I'm guessing it'll be a 3hr affair. what percentage of max HR do most people shoot for on this leg of the race? 70%? 80%? Something else? Same question for the run. I'm hoping the answer can be somewhat generic. I'm willing to err on the conservative side, to an extent. I have some numbers in my head. I'm asking you all.......to see if I'm close. Thanks. |
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2016-08-02 7:41 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
8 Newtown, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png |
2016-08-02 7:58 AM in reply to: bjklemmer |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Thanks. After talking to a buddy, yesterday, and seeing that (chart) -- I was getting ready to be TOO conservative. |
2016-08-02 9:37 AM in reply to: bjklemmer |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by bjklemmer I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png Keep in mind that the percentage of LT that's optimum to race at will vary a good bit depending on how fast someone is and how much weekly training volume they've been doing. Really fast athletes race at higher intensities, and slower athletes at lower intensities as a percentage of FTP or LT, because of the differences in time that they're on the course. For someone who's biking in the 3 hour range, I'll typical hold their bike to 80%-85% of LT. Harder than that, and most are risking blowing up on the run. That's also assuming that you've established your LT fairly accurately. For the run, we'll hold similar numbers for the first half, then switch over to RPE for the last half, building to red line for the last 3 miles.
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2016-08-02 9:48 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by bjklemmer I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png Keep in mind that the percentage of LT that's optimum to race at will vary a good bit depending on how fast someone is and how much weekly training volume they've been doing. Really fast athletes race at higher intensities, and slower athletes at lower intensities as a percentage of FTP or LT, because of the differences in time that they're on the course. For someone who's biking in the 3 hour range, I'll typical hold their bike to 80%-85% of LT. Harder than that, and most are risking blowing up on the run. That's also assuming that you've established your LT fairly accurately. For the run, we'll hold similar numbers for the first half, then switch over to RPE for the last half, building to red line for the last 3 miles.
I have no idea of my LT. That's sad to admit, but it's true. I did an international dist. tri (1.5k; 45k & 10k) in April. If I used HR numbers from that (I went as hard as I could go........for that distance), wouldn't the error be (on using those numbers, now) that I would under-anticipate my performance level (for my half)....since my fitness has improved since April? |
2016-08-02 11:26 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by nc452010 Perhaps your international tri numbers would be ok to use as a guide. LT wise, my run results haven't really changed with fitness, I've been 174-177 bpm on every test. On the bike I've had a bit more variability, 166 to 173 bpm, highest result when I was HIM training.Originally posted by TriMyBest I have no idea of my LT. That's sad to admit, but it's true. I did an international dist. tri (1.5k; 45k & 10k) in April. If I used HR numbers from that (I went as hard as I could go........for that distance), wouldn't the error be (on using those numbers, now) that I would under-anticipate my performance level (for my half)....since my fitness has improved since April? Originally posted by bjklemmer I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png Keep in mind that the percentage of LT that's optimum to race at will vary a good bit depending on how fast someone is and how much weekly training volume they've been doing. Really fast athletes race at higher intensities, and slower athletes at lower intensities as a percentage of FTP or LT, because of the differences in time that they're on the course. For someone who's biking in the 3 hour range, I'll typical hold their bike to 80%-85% of LT. Harder than that, and most are risking blowing up on the run. That's also assuming that you've established your LT fairly accurately. For the run, we'll hold similar numbers for the first half, then switch over to RPE for the last half, building to red line for the last 3 miles.
When I did my first HIM it was unseasonably warm. When I came off the bike my HR went right to high Z3 even though I was running at training pace with a comfortable RPE. After 2 miles or so I was in Z4 for the duration at a pace were I was normally Z2. Heat, dehydration, etc., will cause cardiac drift so be aware of that. I ignore HR on the run during a tri race, RPE rules for me. HR is for bike "control"! |
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2016-08-02 11:35 AM in reply to: Donto |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by Donto Originally posted by nc452010 Perhaps your international tri numbers would be ok to use as a guide. LT wise, my run results haven't really changed with fitness, I've been 174-177 bpm on every test. On the bike I've had a bit more variability, 166 to 173 bpm, highest result when I was HIM training.Originally posted by TriMyBest I have no idea of my LT. That's sad to admit, but it's true. I did an international dist. tri (1.5k; 45k & 10k) in April. If I used HR numbers from that (I went as hard as I could go........for that distance), wouldn't the error be (on using those numbers, now) that I would under-anticipate my performance level (for my half)....since my fitness has improved since April? Originally posted by bjklemmer I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png Keep in mind that the percentage of LT that's optimum to race at will vary a good bit depending on how fast someone is and how much weekly training volume they've been doing. Really fast athletes race at higher intensities, and slower athletes at lower intensities as a percentage of FTP or LT, because of the differences in time that they're on the course. For someone who's biking in the 3 hour range, I'll typical hold their bike to 80%-85% of LT. Harder than that, and most are risking blowing up on the run. That's also assuming that you've established your LT fairly accurately. For the run, we'll hold similar numbers for the first half, then switch over to RPE for the last half, building to red line for the last 3 miles.
When I did my first HIM it was unseasonably warm. When I came off the bike my HR went right to high Z3 even though I was running at training pace with a comfortable RPE. After 2 miles or so I was in Z4 for the duration at a pace were I was normally Z2. Heat, dehydration, etc., will cause cardiac drift so be aware of that. I ignor bpme HR on the run during a tri race, RPE rules for me. HR is for bike "control"! Thanks Donto (all). I am thinking of trying to stay (all times) at 150 or below on the bike. I'm 51. my avg. HR on the bike for my International was 173 bpm. When I said that's as hard as I can go.....I meant it....lol. 1:19:XX. You think I'm safe at 150? |
2016-08-02 4:16 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by nc452010 150 would be an upper Z2 effort, try it out and see how it feels, you can always adjust as you go. God speed.Originally posted by Donto Thanks Donto (all). I am thinking of trying to stay (all times) at 150 or below on the bike. I'm 51. my avg. HR on the bike for my International was 173 bpm. When I said that's as hard as I can go.....I meant it....lol. 1:19:XX. You think I'm safe at 150? Originally posted by nc452010 Perhaps your international tri numbers would be ok to use as a guide. LT wise, my run results haven't really changed with fitness, I've been 174-177 bpm on every test. On the bike I've had a bit more variability, 166 to 173 bpm, highest result when I was HIM training.Originally posted by TriMyBest I have no idea of my LT. That's sad to admit, but it's true. I did an international dist. tri (1.5k; 45k & 10k) in April. If I used HR numbers from that (I went as hard as I could go........for that distance), wouldn't the error be (on using those numbers, now) that I would under-anticipate my performance level (for my half)....since my fitness has improved since April? Originally posted by bjklemmer I found this chart on the5krunner.com site and thought it was very useful. I don't know how to insert the chart here, so just follow the link. Good luck! https://the5krunner.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/zonecomparison1.png Keep in mind that the percentage of LT that's optimum to race at will vary a good bit depending on how fast someone is and how much weekly training volume they've been doing. Really fast athletes race at higher intensities, and slower athletes at lower intensities as a percentage of FTP or LT, because of the differences in time that they're on the course. For someone who's biking in the 3 hour range, I'll typical hold their bike to 80%-85% of LT. Harder than that, and most are risking blowing up on the run. That's also assuming that you've established your LT fairly accurately. For the run, we'll hold similar numbers for the first half, then switch over to RPE for the last half, building to red line for the last 3 miles.
When I did my first HIM it was unseasonably warm. When I came off the bike my HR went right to high Z3 even though I was running at training pace with a comfortable RPE. After 2 miles or so I was in Z4 for the duration at a pace were I was normally Z2. Heat, dehydration, etc., will cause cardiac drift so be aware of that. I ignor bpme HR on the run during a tri race, RPE rules for me. HR is for bike "control"! |
2016-08-02 4:36 PM in reply to: Donto |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Well......when you mean adjust.....do you mean adjust "up" or "down"?.....lol I appreciate the help. I think I'm gonna be fine. |
2016-08-03 9:30 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by nc452010 Thanks Donto (all). I am thinking of trying to stay (all times) at 150 or below on the bike. I'm 51. my avg. HR on the bike for my International was 173 bpm. When I said that's as hard as I can go.....I meant it....lol. 1:19:XX. You think I'm safe at 150? Were you able to run off the bike? If you were, it's not as hard as you could go. Determining LT from an oly is a crap shoot, at best. Better than nothing, but not by a lot. If you ran well (whatever 'well' means for you), then you paced ok on the bike and you were probably somewhere in/around z3 for most of it. But, if you haven't trained with HR, I see no reason to race with it. If your training was off perceived effort, then you should race that way. Hopefully you've done some training at 'HIM effort' (or your guess of what that might be) and know how you felt during and after those workouts. Those are your best gauge of how hard you can/should go on race day. If this is your first, stay a little more conservative until the second half of the run. |
2016-08-03 9:51 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Member 166 Bismarck, ND | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM I just completed my first HIM so I'm not an expert, but my target HR throughout all training has been 145. I'm a 39 year old female. We used the canned 220-age formula. My coach told me that he wanted me to go off my breathing for the bike and not focus as much on the HR. So, my instructions were to keep my breathing under control. But, for my run, I was to keep my HR below 145. I knew as soon as I got off that bike there was no was I was keeping my HR below 145 without walking the whole way. So, I went off of my RPE. It was a 90 degree day with high humidity. My HR was way above my number I felt good. I still had a negative split and finished strong. But, I would think that if you haven't been using HR training, it would be difficult to use it during a race. It took me a long time to get to a "semi decent" pace with my HR at 145. Like I said, I am. It an expert but this was my experience. |
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2016-08-03 10:10 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by nc452010 Thanks Donto (all). I am thinking of trying to stay (all times) at 150 or below on the bike. I'm 51. my avg. HR on the bike for my International was 173 bpm. When I said that's as hard as I can go.....I meant it....lol. 1:19:XX. You think I'm safe at 150? Were you able to run off the bike? If you were, it's not as hard as you could go. Determining LT from an oly is a crap shoot, at best. Better than nothing, but not by a lot. If you ran well (whatever 'well' means for you), then you paced ok on the bike and you were probably somewhere in/around z3 for most of it. But, if you haven't trained with HR, I see no reason to race with it. If your training was off perceived effort, then you should race that way. Hopefully you've done some training at 'HIM effort' (or your guess of what that might be) and know how you felt during and after those workouts. Those are your best gauge of how hard you can/should go on race day. If this is your first, stay a little more conservative until the second half of the run. I always say this the same way.......so I don't have to explain myself.....but..... If you'll go back and read my initial comment, I said "as hard as I could go.....for the distance". I missed a 10K PR by 1 second on that run. I appreciate the rest of your advice. Thank you. |
2016-08-03 10:18 AM in reply to: brreems |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by brreems I just completed my first HIM so I'm not an expert, but my target HR throughout all training has been 145. I'm a 39 year old female. We used the canned 220-age formula. My coach told me that he wanted me to go off my breathing for the bike and not focus as much on the HR. So, my instructions were to keep my breathing under control. But, for my run, I was to keep my HR below 145. I knew as soon as I got off that bike there was no was I was keeping my HR below 145 without walking the whole way. So, I went off of my RPE. It was a 90 degree day with high humidity. My HR was way above my number I felt good. I still had a negative split and finished strong. But, I would think that if you haven't been using HR training, it would be difficult to use it during a race. It took me a long time to get to a "semi decent" pace with my HR at 145. Like I said, I am. It an expert but this was my experience. How did you determine 145 as your number? I use HR in training a lot. But, I don't have a recent LT test to fall back on. What's the downside to using the International (Dist.) numbers and saying they are my LT? Would it be that I would be TOO conservative in my coming race (assuming my fitness has improved.....which it has)? |
2016-08-03 10:30 AM in reply to: 0 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by JohnnyKay I always say this the same way.......so I don't have to explain myself.....but..... If you'll go back and read my initial comment, I said "as hard as I could go.....for the distance". I missed a 10K PR by 1 second on that run. I appreciate the rest of your advice. Thank you. Originally posted by nc452010 Thanks Donto (all). I am thinking of trying to stay (all times) at 150 or below on the bike. I'm 51. my avg. HR on the bike for my International was 173 bpm. When I said that's as hard as I can go.....I meant it....lol. 1:19:XX. You think I'm safe at 150? Were you able to run off the bike? If you were, it's not as hard as you could go. Determining LT from an oly is a crap shoot, at best. Better than nothing, but not by a lot. If you ran well (whatever 'well' means for you), then you paced ok on the bike and you were probably somewhere in/around z3 for most of it. But, if you haven't trained with HR, I see no reason to race with it. If your training was off perceived effort, then you should race that way. Hopefully you've done some training at 'HIM effort' (or your guess of what that might be) and know how you felt during and after those workouts. Those are your best gauge of how hard you can/should go on race day. If this is your first, stay a little more conservative until the second half of the run. Then you were probably well-paced in that race (though if comparable courses/fitness, you should not be able to hit your 10k PR off the bike if you pace well--I'll assume not comparable on some level). I'd still be cautious about using your HR as a primary gauge unless you have some more data points to confirm what a reasonable target range is for yourself. If you do trust your data and use your HR from the oly, then you would likely be around 160 using that chart above (though I would agree that is on the aggressive side for a first time HIM). Edited by JohnnyKay 2016-08-03 10:42 AM |
2016-08-03 10:39 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM Not comparable is legit. The tri was almost pancake flat. My 10K PR was not. I don't do a lot of open 10K's, so there's that, too. I'm thinking (after talking with a training buddy) that I'm going to go with a 150 HR ceiling on the bike (140 for the first half of that) and just go RPE for the first half + of the run. That'll get me to the part of the run course where I can limp in if I have to (it's a two lap course that's on a +/- 1% grade for 3.1 mi. going "out".......downhill coming "in" or crank it up, if I have it in me. Again, I appreciate your input. |
2016-08-03 11:11 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Member 166 Bismarck, ND | Subject: RE: Heart Rate targets for HIM We used Mark Allens "magic 180 rule". You subtract your age from 180. There are a few things that can change that number but thats it. Otherwise, you do find a 5k race and do a calculation off of that. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brreems I just completed my first HIM so I'm not an expert, but my target HR throughout all training has been 145. I'm a 39 year old female. We used the canned 220-age formula. My coach told me that he wanted me to go off my breathing for the bike and not focus as much on the HR. So, my instructions were to keep my breathing under control. But, for my run, I was to keep my HR below 145. I knew as soon as I got off that bike there was no was I was keeping my HR below 145 without walking the whole way. So, I went off of my RPE. It was a 90 degree day with high humidity. My HR was way above my number I felt good. I still had a negative split and finished strong. But, I would think that if you haven't been using HR training, it would be difficult to use it during a race. It took me a long time to get to a "semi decent" pace with my HR at 145. Like I said, I am. It an expert but this was my experience. How did you determine 145 as your number? I use HR in training a lot. But, I don't have a recent LT test to fall back on. What's the downside to using the International (Dist.) numbers and saying they are my LT? Would it be that I would be TOO conservative in my coming race (assuming my fitness has improved.....which it has)? |
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