General Discussion Triathlon Talk » more than just swimming the crawl in the off season? Rss Feed  
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2016-09-10 1:29 PM

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Subject: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?

Does anyone work on other strokes during the off season? I've been swimming for fitness for near 15 years now and the crawl is getting pretty boring. I taught myself flip turns one year during the winter. That was pretty fun but I don't want to start THAT debate!  

I've started adding some back stroke into my workouts and it's giving me something new to think about but I don't think I have very good technique. My butterfly and breast stroke are sad. 

I tried a swim team workout that was posted on the white board at the pool one day a few years ago It had a lot more breast stroke than I ever do including a couple of sets of 200 breast stroke. I only ever do breast stroke as an easy recovery lap between sets but this time I tried to go hard for the 200. I wound up at the doctors office and on meds for a strained muscle in my back from that little experiment.

What do your workouts look like if you incorporate other strokes? Obviously I guess I need to start slow and work on my form lol. I'm not worried about whether or not it will help my triathlon swim. I only raced once all year this year and that was the first time I have raced in 3 years. I just want to keep swimming interesting and get a good workout.



2016-09-10 6:16 PM
in reply to: trigal38

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?
Oooh yes! Not just from a training standpoint (but there are benefits) but just a break from those obnoxious sets like 6 X 400 and 5 X 600. That seems to be the bread and butter of a lot of HIM programs and coaches.I imagine full IM sets are even more mind-bending. Probably great for building endurance and pacing but....ugh. Like the song says, "Wake me up when it's all over!" During the off-season ( there isn't actually one in SE Asia, but I usually take a break from racing from about October through February as there aren't convenient races to get to), I do a lot of workouts that incorporate IM (individual medley). That's various distances (usually 100, 200, or 400m) with 1/4 of the distance for each stroke--fly, back. breast, and free. The 200 (if in a 25m pool) and 400 IM are particularly technical, as one then has all the different turns of swimming (within and between the strokes). One year our master's club had an "800m IM challenge" (200m consecutive of all the strokes with correct turns, no DQ's, and no stopping). That was tough, especially the fly!

I think there are definitely benefits for swim fitness and strength/flexibility in general, and of course for triathlon swim. As you found out the hard way, the different strokes work rather different muscles. Breaststroke is good for upper thigh strength and hip flexibility. These are often low in skinny runner types and some people also have knee discomfort from pushing it too long or too fast--best to add gradually. It's even useful during triathlon as a "rescue stroke" that you can do to get your act back together after swallowing water, say, or getting your goggles messed up. Most of my events are in the ocean and embarrassed to say but almost all of them have probably included at least 20-30 seconds of breaststroking while trying to spot a buoy or coughing up seawater! Backstroke is great for stretching out the shoulders and working on body rotation. Again, some use it as a "rescue stroke". While one would never want to do butterfly in a tri (okay, maybe Yanti!), as a former butterflier (in HS) I can testify it is great for building core strength and aerobic capacity. It is a tough stroke to master--helps to use fins when you are learning as that will lessen the strength needed to go through the stroke cycle. Fins can also be helpful for backstroke if you are still having trouble holding the correct body position.

This was my first week of the off-season after Worlds, and I actually celebrated by doing a 3500m workout with 800m worth of IM! A great source for workouts incorporating different strokes is http://mastersswimworkoutsbysaramclarty.blogspot.com.She has several years of archived workouts on the site, at three different levels. Generally one workout a week incorporates lots of stroke or IM work.

My workout yesterday was:

Standard Sara M 1000m warmup: 400 swim (2 X 150m free/50m back/breast--that's my addition)/300m pull/200m IM kick (fins for fl and back)/100m IM

2 sets of: 4 X 150m pull (odds build by 50, no paddles; evens moderate effort with paddles, breathe every 3/5/7 strokes by 50)
4 X 100 IM
4 X 50 freestyle kick with fins

100m cooldown

For a lighter version, you could just do 1 X through the main set. There are lots of similar workouts on the site. C workouts are in the 2000-2500m range and don't assume ability to swim all 4 strokes but incorporate some strokes, usually alternating with free--might be best for you. B assumes you can swim all four but doesn't actually have a lot of IM. work. A seems to assume you are an ex-collegiate swimmer and includes lots of IM. I often modify the A workout into B distance/times--will do the IM's but use the slower sendoffs and cut the sets to swim in the 2800-3600m range, not 4000m + like the A workouts.

2016-09-10 7:33 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?

Good info thanks! I will check out that website for sure. I dabble in a very little bit of IM sets but I never swam competitively and have no idea of proper turns or how my form stacks up. I took American Red Cross swim instructor training several years ago but that is the extent of my knowledge.

Too much and too aggressive of a butterfly hurts my shoulder I know that much! I have read before that butterfly is the fastest stroke so one day I worked a little bit at it trying to get faster. When I finally timed a length I swam it in the same time as I do a moderately paced length of the crawl. I was shocked for the disproportionate time I spend swimming the crawl vs the butterfly I would have thought the times would never even be close to each other. 

2016-09-10 8:46 PM
in reply to: trigal38

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?
Same for me--over short distances (25-50m now, maybe 100 when I was younger) fly and free times are pretty close. It's aerobically more taxing, though, so not the stroke of choice for longer stuff!
2016-09-11 8:14 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?
Generally I try to do every third rep of a set as either an IM or a stroke. Usually the stroke is breast stroke, but occasionally I'll throw a back in the mix. The IM gives me plenty of fly though Someday I'll get rid of the last of this belly and then maybe I'll swim butterfly more. I don't think I've ever drummed up a workout that had a set that was entirely stroke. Perhaps I'll try a 10 x 100 IM set next time I hop into a pool.

Back in high school my 100 fly time was faster than my 100 free time partly because I only swam the 100 free once in a meet (when I was a sophomore). I have a horrible flutter kick; always have. I hook my feet instead of keeping my toes pointed. Two different high school coaches, a college coach, and now a Masters coach have tried to get me to fix it, and it just doesn't work. Now I just kick enough to keep myself horizontal and let my arms do the work.

As for the off season, I've never really had one. Last July was when I got the idea to do a triathlon, and I didn't start swimming until November last year after a 25 year hiatus. I needed almost all that off season to get to where I could swim the distance for a tri. I anticipate this off season to be similar to last year's in that I will use the indoor track at my local YMCA and swim pretty regularly. The bike will only come out once in a while as weather permits.

J White
2016-09-12 6:56 AM
in reply to: trigal38

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?
Originally posted by trigal38

Good info thanks! I will check out that website for sure. I dabble in a very little bit of IM sets but I never swam competitively and have no idea of proper turns or how my form stacks up. I took American Red Cross swim instructor training several years ago but that is the extent of my knowledge.

Too much and too aggressive of a butterfly hurts my shoulder I know that much! I have read before that butterfly is the fastest stroke so one day I worked a little bit at it trying to get faster. When I finally timed a length I swam it in the same time as I do a moderately paced length of the crawl. I was shocked for the disproportionate time I spend swimming the crawl vs the butterfly I would have thought the times would never even be close to each other. 



There is only 2 ways to swim fly; fast and really fast! However crawl is still a faster stroke.

Butterfly will take a lot more out of you than front crawl, but it is a good workout.

many people use all 4 main strokes during swim workouts and it helps to break the boredom.


2016-09-12 7:35 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?

Yep, all four strokes are good.  Helps break the boredom and also improves feel of the water.  Works different muscles and movement patterns.  All good.  Its like some strength and core work can help you be a better runner.  Doing other strokes can help make you a better freestyler.

To stir the pot a little, one could argue maybe 6 strokes actually.  The 4 everyone knows.  Dolphin kicking is five.  Its critical for fast pool swimming and great for core work.  Side stroke is six.  Hey, you never know.  

Bottom line is mix it up.  We're made to do different things.  It makes us stronger overall.

2016-09-12 11:20 AM
in reply to: trigal38

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Subject: RE: more than just swimming the crawl in the off season?
I swim 3 times a week all year round with a Master's swim class. We have coaches on deck (2 ex-Olympians) and we do all 4 strokes every practice. We have 5 lanes of people from fast to slow, young to old and it would get pretty boring doing one stroke 3 times a week, 52 weeks a year, year after year.

My Master's class is not tri-specific. It is swim specific. I have improved from a 1:24 to a 1:10 IM swim and my half IM swims are down to 32:00. I started swimming at 42 and with coaching, swim clinics, video I have become a confident, comfortable, if not that super fast swimmer. Having those others strokes in my arsenal just makes me a better, more confident, overall swimmer. I know I could go faster but I am at the point where I enjoy swimming, and my goal in the swim is to exit the water having not taken too much out of the tank and setting myself up for the bike.

If nothing else, 100m IM order repeats on 2:00-1:50 get the heart going.
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