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2017-01-08 4:29 PM
in reply to: noldowney

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Subject: RE: Workouts

Originally posted by noldowney

Friday 4.5 miles easyish pace - was running in light snow pack I like to always try and run negative splits - but today was very even. Based on some of the HR info above probably going to high on HR as avg was 155.

Saturday - 60 minutes on trainer - Sufferfest Downward Spiral 2 sets of intervals - start at 2 min on 2 off, 1:45 on 1:45 off, ... down 15 sec at time to 15 seconds. avg HR 139

Maybe I can sneak in a pool workout later.

I think I have opened my log so that everyone can see it.

Good luck at IM Canada Kelly (now you are committed, as we will all cheer you on)

Hey David,

Oh how I miss running in the snow - seriously!

Riding to Sufferfest videos - those will provide you a good solid workout.  Remember you still need to get outdoors when possible so you can develop/improve bike handling skills.  You keep doing Sufferfest through the winter and you'll be strong come spring!



2017-01-08 4:38 PM
in reply to: AkronChet

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Originally posted by AkronChet

Today's workout was a twilight indoor triathlon at a city recreation center near me. It was swim 20 minutes, bike 20 minutes and run 20 on indoor track. I don't have results yet but it felt good just to push myself. Made me realize how consistent I am going to have to be between now and June. I run and work out regularly but need to be better about swimming and biking earlier in the season. It was interesting how they measured the watts on the biking so now earlier posts make more sense to me. I enjoyed the opportunity to be around friendly and positive people that you meet at these events.

Chet,

Was that an actual race or a simulation?  Either way, sounds like you got a good 60-minute workout out of it.

You want to do at least enough swimming so you can remain aerobic in the water during your race.  The bike is key to a strong triathlon.  You can't have a good run if you don't have a good bike  That saying goes to pacing as much as anything, but you aren't going to have good pacing if you aren't strong on the bike; making the bike arguably the discipline you need to work on the most and be the strongest at - and winter is the optimal time to begin working on that!

2017-01-08 4:59 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Let's Get this Party Started - pt II

Originally posted by wenceslasz

Scott - A fellow I swim with told me today that he swims an extra 500m after each swim with the aim of increasing his swim fitness and lead to faster paces.  Is this a reasonable strategy or better to stick with the swims as the coach instructs and maybe swim more often?

George,

There is no question that increasing the right kind of volume will make you a better, faster swimmer.  Just adding on "junk" yards/meters won't do anything and may actually create problems.  The right kind of volume is intervals with appropriate rest.  The primary reason we do intervals in the pool is so that you can maintain proper technique - thereby storing proper technique into muscle memory.  Remember that swimming is a highly technical discipline.  You gain more from proper technique than you do from strength.  If you just go out and add 500 meters at the end of a workout - when you are tired - it is likely that your form will break down and the last thing "muscle memory" will see is poor or degraded technique.  

On the other hand, if you were to add 5 x 100 or 10 x 50 with the appropriate rest so you can maintain technique you will be adding "the right kind of volume" and you will get stronger/faster.

To the second part of your question - "and maybe swim more often" - I strongly recommend that you swim as frequently as you can.  Say for example that you are swimming twice a week, 3,000 yards in each workout for a total of 6,000 yards per week (arguably sufficient yardage for a Sprint Triathlon swim).  I would much rather see you do that as 3 x 2000, or even 4 x 1,500 then 2 x 3,000.  The more frequently you are in the water, the better your feel for the water will develop.

2017-01-08 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Originally posted by triosaurus

I am looking at the BT beginner IM plan, which is 20 weeks, so for the time until that starts I will focus more on the run for the next two months (1/2 marathon trail run in late Feb) while doing some swim and bike, then do a more bike-focused block with some run and swim for several weeks, then start the 20-week IM training. I have limited swim experience, but seem to not struggle with it, so will do two swims a week for the next two months.

Hey Kelly,

I touched on this in a reply to Chet but I will expand upon it here.  At the Ironman distance, the bike is the key to the race.  Don't let anyone tell you any differently. You need to stay aerobic during the swim so you don't exhaust yourself - that is relatively easy to do with a few hours of swimming a week.  On the run, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW GOOD A RUNNER YOU ARE OR THINK YOU ARE!!!  I've seen sub 2:30 open marathoners walking an Ironman marathon. 

If you aren't adequately prepared for the bike, you will have 26.2 miles on your feet for that error to fully express itself - and it won't be pretty.  I don't believe an age-group triathlete can be over-prepared for the bike, but it's VERY easy to be under-prepared.  If it were me, I would be on the bike a minimum of three times each week beginning now.  The aerobic gains you make on the bike will help improve your run, plus the running you would continue to do.

To put this into perspective.  I worked with an athlete that completed Ironman Louisville 2015.  He had chronic shin splints and if he ran more than 9-miles he could not run again for a couple of weeks.  His longest training run was 8.2 miles and his highest volume week was 16 miles in the months leading up to IM Louisville (I wouldn't suggest that as sufficient training volume for anyone by the way).  However, we hit the bike VERY hard.  On race day, he paced the bike to assure a strong run finishing with a 6:18 bike split and a 4:42 marathon (utilizing a run/walk strategy in which he walked EVERY aid station).

The bike is most important.  The sooner you begin getting miles in the saddle, the better.

Just my humble two cents.



Edited by k9car363 2017-01-08 9:51 PM
2017-01-08 5:52 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Originally posted by marcag

. . . I am wondering if I'll do another.

Quebec to Louisville is only 1,016 miles.  You could join me there for IM Louisville in October!

Just sayin'! 

2017-01-08 6:06 PM
in reply to: adbru

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Originally posted by adbru

Marcag - Well done on your first full, still seems a long way away for me ;-)

22.3miles on the bike today.

I wasn't sure what to do, feel free to discuss.... Last week should have been a 2 hour ride, I misjudged the route and only did 1:30. This week should have been a 1 hour fallback ride, however I was concerned that I would then struggle stepping up to the 2:30 ride next week. So I did 1:45 on legs which were toast from yesterdays long 5 mile run.

What would you have done today?? I feel good that I got the miles done, will see what the legs are like tomorrow

Adrian,

Here's how I approach that and have the athletes I work with approach it.

Assuming you have a well thought out schedule or are following some plan, if you miss a workout or are short on a workout, move on.  The next day don't try to "make-up" for the missed or shortened workout.  That almost always has consequences.  On any given day, you don't want to do any more than necessary to achieve the desired physiological adaptations and as importantly, you don't want to do so much that you take away from the next workout or compromise recovery.

You had a scheduled ride of 1:00 but stepped it up to 1:45 even though you'd done the 5-mile run the day previously.  By doing that, you may have attenuated your recovery from the run - potentially doing more harm than good.

You're still at a relatively low training volume so no harm, no foul.  Trust the training you put "in the bank."  Life happens, sometimes, for what ever reason, you may miss a workout or not achieve the full workout as written.  Accept it, and move on to the next day.



2017-01-08 6:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Workouts

Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by noldowney

Friday 4.5 miles easyish pace - was running in light snow pack I like to always try and run negative splits - but today was very even. Based on some of the HR info above probably going to high on HR as avg was 155.

Saturday - 60 minutes on trainer - Sufferfest Downward Spiral 2 sets of intervals - start at 2 min on 2 off, 1:45 on 1:45 off, ... down 15 sec at time to 15 seconds. avg HR 139

Maybe I can sneak in a pool workout later.

I think I have opened my log so that everyone can see it.

Good luck at IM Canada Kelly (now you are committed, as we will all cheer you on)

Hey David,

Oh how I miss running in the snow - seriously!

Riding to Sufferfest videos - those will provide you a good solid workout.  Remember you still need to get outdoors when possible so you can develop/improve bike handling skills.  You keep doing Sufferfest through the winter and you'll be strong come spring!

David - I did The Downward Spiral on Thursday .  I got the Sufferfest app and have been using it for about 6 weeks.  I think the interval workouts are my favorites.  I'm hoping that by the time spring comes around, I'll have some solid improvement on my bike speed.  

Kathy - congrats on your race!

I did an interesting race yesterday.  It was a trail race, 4.1 mile loop.  It started at 8am and everyone had 1 hour to finish the loop.  Subsequent loops started at the top of every hour after that (so anyone who finished loop 1 within the hour would start loop 2 at 9am, loop 3 at 10am, etc).  Winner was whoever did the most loops.  The female winner did 10 loops, the male winner did 12.  I did 2  but that was my plan so I'm happy with that.  Did I mention that the trail was snow-covered and the temp was 3*F when we started the race?  It had warmed up into the teens by the time I finished my second loop and the sun was out so it actually didn't feel too bad by then.  If it had been a little warmer, I think I would have tried for a third - not sure I would have made the 1 hour cut-off though.  Despite the cold, it was actually a lot of fun to do.

This morning was an 1800 swim and I'm getting ready for 5 miles on the TM right now.  Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Janet

 



Edited by soccermom15 2017-01-08 6:30 PM
2017-01-08 6:46 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Maffetone Method and Cycling workouts

Originally posted by marcag 

There was another plan that Shane put together that you could try http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... I have a link to each week in my training log

Marc,

I thought that was you and Shane!

Dorm - my normal routine is along this general schedule except recovery weeks:

  • Monday - Z4/Z5 - typically VO2 MAX or Threshold intervals
  • Tuesday - sweet spot/tempo
  • Wednesday - Z4/Z5 - typically over/under intervals
  • Friday - sweet spot/tempo
  • Saturday - long ride
2017-01-08 6:49 PM
in reply to: kszelei

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Originally posted by kszelei

Hi y'all!

Finished my first tri of the year today! Lifetime Indoor Tri. It went well, for the most part. My cycling distance was greater than last year, and my swim and run were the same distances. The race is 10 min swim, 30 min cycle, and 20 min treadmill run. All in all, not bad. As my husband noted, at least I'm not deteriorating!

Have a great week!

Kathy

Congratulations Kathy!

First race of the season, you improved over last year, and if I am feeling the excitement in your post right - you had fun!

You can't ask for any more than that!

2017-01-08 7:45 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Maffetone Method and Cycling workouts

Originally posted by marcag

In terms of run plans it kind of depends on whether you have some type of focus right now (swim vs bike vs run). Personally, I find this time of year is perfect for mostly easy running. I try to do as much frequency as possible. I actually run every day right now. Volume through high frequency is ideal. Build a really good run base for more specific things later. Slowly as the season progress a long run day will evolve, and 2 'special' workouts will evolve and I'll move to one day off a week. As a matter of fact it's called a BarryP program and is well documented on ST. Let me know if you want more details If you are doing a bike focus there is a really good plan here on BT from a guy named Jorge but it is mostly trainer based but there is an outdoor ride once per week. If that's of interest I could help you find it. Personally on the bike I am very Z2 and Z5 right now.

 

Marc,

I have a question for you, actually two.

I follow Barry P fairly closely once there is a decent base.  I am not at all a fan of a "traditional" long run (ex. 16-18+ miles).  I don't see where risk/reward is advantageous for a true long run and with BarryP you can get to 40 mpw with a long run of 12 miles.  However, running purists argue you simply can't do a marathon/Ironman without a true long run.

What are your thoughts on the traditional long run?

In one of my earlier posts today I mentioned an individual I worked with prior to IM Louisville 2015.  He had a chronic shin splint issue and couldn't run more than ~ 9 miles or he was off his feet for a couple weeks - so his longest run in training was 8.2 miles.  We followed a somewhat modified BarryP program (only ran 4x/wk in deference to his injury).  A week before the race, he asked me, "What do I do when I get to mile 9?"  I told him to simply keep running, his endurance wasn't tied to the length of the longest run he had completed.

What would your response have been to the "what do I do when I get to mile 9" question?

2017-01-08 9:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN
Workout today was warm-up then one 12:00 minute mile recovery run and then an hour of weights. I was a little sore from yesterday so I went lighter but slower.

I had a question about bike training. Right now with the ice, snow and "pot holes" from the snow plows I am leery of riding on my road bike. But I have another commuter type bike that I use on a asphalt, crushed stone trail. We have an 85 mile Ohio Towpath Trail that I could ride on more safely. I was thinking of doing this for longer rides instead of a spin bike since I don't have an indoor trainer yet. At least until we have a stretch of warmer weather. Since I don't ride a tri-bike I was thinking this would train almost the same muscles that I use on my road bike. After reading your post I realize that I haven't really given the bike the same priority as the swim or the run even though it is the longest distance.

Edited by AkronChet 2017-01-08 9:15 PM


2017-01-08 10:12 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Maffetone Method and Cycling workouts

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Dorm57

I always remember Jorge for his 6x4min@105 with 45s rest. Those were killers.

Marc ... I remember those 6x4's too and yes they are tough.  Thank for the workout plans - I'm ready to dive in on these!

Ciao ... Dorm

2017-01-08 11:27 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Let's Get this Party Started - pt II

Today was my day off and I really enjoyed it.  Unfortunately, I'll have to go out tonight at 10:00pm to shovel snow off our driveway.  Nothing hard just a nice 45 min Zn 1 aerobic workout.  Our snow here is generally dry and light.  I'll also shovel an older ladies driveway in the morning just to keep it from icing up.

Right now a run outside would be perfect.  The temp is not too cool, the wind not too harsh.  There is only an inch of snow on the roads and there is no ice under the snow to present a danger.  It is also snowing lightly just to make it perfect.  Maybe I'll run my short easy run outside tomorrow.

Kelly - I was considering doing Oliver as well this year but I'd prefer to do the Challenge half in July although I guess they are both pretty local for me.  I liked the advice Scott gave you on training for Whistler.  Consider looking at Gale Bernhardt's training schedule for an IM.  Not to follow it but to see what the schedule looks like.  It is a 26 or 27 week schedule.  

Adrian - I stumbled on this accidentally but after a particularly hard workout or series of workouts I like to go for an easy bike ride or swim.  Nothing strenuous just a 30 to 60 minute swim or ride in Zn 1.  It really helps to shake out the legs and get rid of the stiffness.  Usually I just do it after a longish run or bike ride.

Kathy - Congrats on your race.  Sounded like fun and always nice to be supported by your family.

Thanks Scott - I remember you telling me about intervals.  This week I am planning to swim 3 times and I'll get back to 4 times a week pretty quick.  Then I'll add intervals after my swim once I can maintain my technique.

 

2017-01-08 11:57 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN
Scott

Many thanks for the info. Just to be clear, I am getting in trainer rides already. Several per week.
I guess when I say a current 'run focus' I just mean that with several running events scheduled culminating with a 1/2 M, I want to make sure my run build is consistent. I am still trying to maintain a sort of 'balance' with the three events

Today was a 40-min easy treadmill effort, followed by a 50-min bike on the trainer. Earlier, I walked 5km in the rain with the dogs (not mine, but my kids' and their mom"s, who are away travelling )

Always grateful for advice and suggestions!

kelly
2017-01-09 12:00 AM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Let's Get this Party Started - pt II
George

thanks for the book suggestion - will look it up.

We had rain all day, which turned to flooding the roads as the drains are largely blocked with ice and snow. I am tired of shoveling

2017-01-09 12:07 AM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Workouts
Originally posted by soccermom15

Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by noldowney

Friday 4.5 miles easyish pace - was running in light snow pack I like to always try and run negative splits - but today was very even. Based on some of the HR info above probably going to high on HR as avg was 155.

Saturday - 60 minutes on trainer - Sufferfest Downward Spiral 2 sets of intervals - start at 2 min on 2 off, 1:45 on 1:45 off, ... down 15 sec at time to 15 seconds. avg HR 139

Maybe I can sneak in a pool workout later.

I think I have opened my log so that everyone can see it.

Good luck at IM Canada Kelly (now you are committed, as we will all cheer you on)

Hey David,

Oh how I miss running in the snow - seriously!

Riding to Sufferfest videos - those will provide you a good solid workout.  Remember you still need to get outdoors when possible so you can develop/improve bike handling skills.  You keep doing Sufferfest through the winter and you'll be strong come spring!

David - I did The Downward Spiral on Thursday .  I got the Sufferfest app and have been using it for about 6 weeks.  I think the interval workouts are my favorites.  I'm hoping that by the time spring comes around, I'll have some solid improvement on my bike speed.  

Kathy - congrats on your race!

I did an interesting race yesterday.  It was a trail race, 4.1 mile loop.  It started at 8am and everyone had 1 hour to finish the loop.  Subsequent loops started at the top of every hour after that (so anyone who finished loop 1 within the hour would start loop 2 at 9am, loop 3 at 10am, etc).  Winner was whoever did the most loops.  The female winner did 10 loops, the male winner did 12.  I did 2  but that was my plan so I'm happy with that.  Did I mention that the trail was snow-covered and the temp was 3*F when we started the race?  It had warmed up into the teens by the time I finished my second loop and the sun was out so it actually didn't feel too bad by then.  If it had been a little warmer, I think I would have tried for a third - not sure I would have made the 1 hour cut-off though.  Despite the cold, it was actually a lot of fun to do.

This morning was an 1800 swim and I'm getting ready for 5 miles on the TM right now.  Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Janet

 




Janet

That sounds like a really cool event. Congrats. 3*F sounds cold.




2017-01-09 12:18 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN
Marc
Congrats on the IM . I enjoyed reading through your race report. 11 hours - you ROCKED it !!

I realize how 'far away' it seems now, but how quickly the remaining time will pass.

I am thinking this IM may very well be a one - n - done thing Then, back to focus on the shorter events, as I 'am' getting older. That is what helped make the decision to jump on it now - YOLO, as the kids say

2017-01-09 5:30 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Maffetone Method and Cycling workouts
Originally posted by k9car363
 

Marc,

I have a question for you, actually two.

I follow Barry P fairly closely once there is a decent base.  I am not at all a fan of a "traditional" long run (ex. 16-18+ miles).  I don't see where risk/reward is advantageous for a true long run and with BarryP you can get to 40 mpw with a long run of 12 miles.  However, running purists argue you simply can't do a marathon/Ironman without a true long run.

What are your thoughts on the traditional long run?

In one of my earlier posts today I mentioned an individual I worked with prior to IM Louisville 2015.  He had a chronic shin splint issue and couldn't run more than ~ 9 miles or he was off his feet for a couple weeks - so his longest run in training was 8.2 miles.  We followed a somewhat modified BarryP program (only ran 4x/wk in deference to his injury).  A week before the race, he asked me, "What do I do when I get to mile 9?"  I told him to simply keep running, his endurance wasn't tied to the length of the longest run he had completed.

What would your response have been to the "what do I do when I get to mile 9" question?




I do believe in developing to a long run and I do use doubles to build up to it. So do a 30min+30min, then 30+40min...30+50min, 30+60min, 70min...and I go as high at 90min for HIM. But I probably only do about 4 or 5 of those. For the full I went to 2hrs but I only did 4 of those total. I did a 2h15 with 27run+3walk just to see how that felt. So yes to the long run but later in the cycle and build up to it. No need earlier as it is taxing on over 50s. My achilles do break down when I get higher than 42mpw

But yes, I do believe you can get away with splitting the long run to an extent.
Jesse Thomas, if I am not mistaken, runs13 or 14miles as his longest IM run and adds another one later in the day.

My best HIMs were with some 90min runs with some "wprk" in there like 2x10min tempo. But my achilles don't like those as much any more.

On my IM I walked more than I wanted to. I think it was more related to bad pacing of the first 13miles and fear of a bonk. If I do another iM this is definitely the place I will look for time but I will not run more. I was on 40-42mpw


2017-01-09 12:26 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN
Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply.
It was kinda what I expected, I do find it hard to accept when I miss a 'long' session and usually try to catch up lol.

at the moment I am following two unrelated plans, one for the bike and another half marathon for the running.
If there is a squeeze then the run will get dropped as I come from more of a running background so am confident that I can take the pain there.

My primary target is the 70 mile etape in april, i am thinking about a half marathon in march and will decide fairly soon if i'll enter it.
This week will be another squeeze due to work and heading to glasgow for the weekend to visit our kids

then if i decide to do the HIM in september I'll start a BT 20 week plan in may...

My training also seems a lot less technical than you guys, i just run/bike and do my best

well done to all the training done last week and to the racers !
2017-01-09 4:00 PM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Workouts
Janet good job on the trail race.
I have one scheduled for the end of Feb that is a 10 mile loop. Lots of steep hills though so it really zaps me and makes my muscles sore. Trying to keep up a little weight routine this year to see if that will help.
2017-01-09 6:28 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN

Spent a couple of hours in the gym today ... 1hour on the spin cycle along with strength training.  I've started with the Week 2 cycling workouts from Marc's workout page.  Doing the spin session after the strength training, which was mostly legs ... well, I was soooo glad to be done.

AMY - SCOTT ... thanks for the tips on the Plantar Fasciitis and the foot is better.  It began mid-October and I've been working since on trying to get rid of it, so thanks again for the tips.

Marc ... thanks again for the workouts, and yes I suffered.  I thought the last 10m @ 95% FTP would never end.  Given the intensity of these workouts, I think I need to do the strength training in combo with either swimming or running.  Today was tough!

Hope all have a good week ... Ciao - Dorm



2017-01-09 7:31 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz

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Subject: RE: Let's Get this Party Started - pt II

In my post last night I mentioned how perfect the conditions were for running outside.  This morning I got an email from a friend I swim and race with (funny I think of her as young as she is 52).  She was out yesterday morning with her run group and she slipped on ice and fractured her left clavicle.  On the positive side she hopes to be ready for coffee by Wednesday.  I consider "coffee" an important adjunct to training and race planning etc.

2017-01-09 8:10 PM
in reply to: k9car363


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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group -- OPEN
Today Workout: I went to a Master's Swimming Class and completed a 400 WU then was able to swim about 900 yards doing different drills. I decided to stop at that point because I wasn't used to the pace and was losing my form. I am excited about going back again getting stronger. It is definitely different than training by myself. After the swim I ran three miles on a treadmill at a 10:30 pace.
2017-01-09 8:12 PM
in reply to: wenceslasz


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Subject: RE: Let's Get this Party Started - pt II
I will keep your friend in my positive thoughts and prayers for a quick recovery. Injuries like that are frustrating but a good cup of coffee and friends do help.
2017-01-09 8:53 PM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Workouts

Originally posted by soccermom15

I did an interesting race yesterday.  It was a trail race, 4.1 mile loop.  It started at 8am and everyone had 1 hour to finish the loop.  Subsequent loops started at the top of every hour after that (so anyone who finished loop 1 within the hour would start loop 2 at 9am, loop 3 at 10am, etc).  Winner was whoever did the most loops.  The female winner did 10 loops, the male winner did 12.  I did 2  but that was my plan so I'm happy with that.  Did I mention that the trail was snow-covered and the temp was 3*F when we started the race?  It had warmed up into the teens by the time I finished my second loop and the sun was out so it actually didn't feel too bad by then.  If it had been a little warmer, I think I would have tried for a third - not sure I would have made the 1 hour cut-off though.  Despite the cold, it was actually a lot of fun to do.

Janet,

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun.  12 laps?  I don't think so!

 

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date : February 19, 2007
author : Terese Luikens
comments : 0
Find a mentor. Make a list of at least three people that you could approach for help, list your specific needs and then be courageous enough to begin asking.