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2017-02-07 12:46 PM

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Subject: Exucation Sec
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/13/bobby-jindal-trump-s-pick...

Devos just got confirmed. This makes sense to me but I have no special insight into our education system.

My position has always been push the power and money to state and local governments and keep the federal government out of it. The is no federal/constitutional right to a free public education. This is provided by the states.

Just seems like slowly but Shirley states are losing their sovereignty. Why even have states if the feds, under the interstate commerce clause, is going to regulate everything....even things like the drinking age. It's ok to join the army and go fight a war and die for your country but it's illegal to buy and drink a beer? If you are arrested for a crime at 18 you are tried as an adult and can be sentenced to death or life in prison.....but you cannot legally buy a beer? So this is a state law....but thru federal coercion, it is the law everywhere. If states fail to comply, the federal government will withhold funding for roads and bridges.

Not sure how I got off on that.....guess I think it is another example of the feds taking away state power.

So what are your thoughts about Devos? Thoughts on school choice Jindal's article?



2017-02-07 2:04 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

So what are your thoughts about Devos?

She's not a teacher, professor, principal or even a coach.  She's a billionaire lobbyist.

2017-02-07 2:13 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio So what are your thoughts about Devos? 

In keeping with her theme during her confirmation hearing interviews.........

I don't know.

2017-02-07 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio So what are your thoughts about Devos? Thoughts on school choice Jindal's article?

De Vos is an idiot. I listened to her entire hearing and she knows next to nothing about education. I was sure a few Republicans would step up and vote no based on her lack of experience and demonstrated lack of knowledge. Depressed to find I'm wrong. Guess I'm wrong about a lot this year! I clearly overestimate our population and our politicians.

School choice? Meh. Depends on how it is executed. Denver Public Schools have done a great job opening specialty schools under the banner of charter schools, however, they are held accountable to the same standards as the neighborhood schools, and in most cases are magnet schools for exceptional children. If executed well, charter schools can be effective.

Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that De Vos understands enough about education to execute her idea of school choice successfully. She refuses to commit to accountability for charter and private schools, and I don't agree with giving federal and state dollars to schools that are not held accountable.

I also feel that school choice is a luxury we can discuss in urban areas, but a useless concept for rural areas. I lived in a ski town with 1000 year round residents for years - your kid went to the public school, or you home-schooled. Vouchers and school choice won't help failing rural public schools, and those are the schools that need a successful public school system the most. Unfortunately, the person we just confirmed is woefully unprepared to tackle the problems with our public schools. 

I've got one kid at public school, and I pay $15,000 per year to send my other kid to a private Montessori school because it's a better fit for him. I'm the poster child for people who would benefit financially from vouchers or "school choice". But I don't think it will benefit our educational system as a whole, and I suspect that if vouchers were implemented, my kid's private school tuition would simply increase accordingly. Why wouldn't it? So how does that help the low income people Jindal is discussing in his article? They won't be able to afford a private school any more than they can now.



Edited by Stacers 2017-02-07 2:47 PM
2017-02-07 2:53 PM
in reply to: Stacers

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Rogillio So what are your thoughts about Devos? Thoughts on school choice Jindal's article?

De Vos is an idiot. I listened to her entire hearing and she knows next to nothing about education. I was sure a few Republicans would step up and vote no based on her lack of experience and demonstrated lack of knowledge.

I'm giving you this one for sure, Stacers.....why even have confirmation hearings if the nominee proves they're incompetent to fill the job and they still get it???

2017-02-07 3:05 PM
in reply to: Stacers

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Rogillio So what are your thoughts about Devos? Thoughts on school choice Jindal's article?

De Vos is an idiot. Depressed to find I'm wrong. .




Cheer up!

One need not be an educator to administer the Department of Education. Successful people succeed. You don't need to be a politician to be succeed at governing and you don't need to be an educative to head the Department of Education. Conversely you may be a brilliant educator but suck at managing and leading a $70 BILLION budget! (Includes $69.4 billion in discretionary funding, an increase of $1.3 billion (2%) over the 2016 appropriation)

IOW, I think you and many members of congress are looking for the wrong skill set. I'm a good engineer but you would not want to trust me with $69 billion in discretionary engineering money!!

It's a done deal now. She has been confirmed. Time will tell if she needed experience teaching public school to effectively manage a $70 billion budget!!



2017-02-07 3:11 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

It's pretty obvious how she wants to manage the budget - i.e. funneling public dollars to private (Christian) schools.

2017-02-07 3:12 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by spudone

It's pretty obvious how she wants to manage the budget - i.e. funneling public dollars to private (Christian) schools.




Awesome!
2017-02-07 3:17 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

It's pretty obvious how she wants to manage the budget - i.e. funneling public dollars to private (Christian) schools.

Awesome!

And how would you feel if she instead wanted more schools teaching Islam?  Not that this administration would've confirmed such a person.

2017-02-07 3:21 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by spudone

So what are your thoughts about Devos?

She's not a teacher, professor, principal or even a coach.  She's a billionaire lobbyist.




Nothing wrong with being a billionaire. I'd be one myself if I weren't so broke.

"In 2015, the DeVos Foundation made $11.6 million in charitable contributions, bringing the couple's lifetime charitable giving to $139 million. Forbes ranked the DeVos family #24 on its 2015 list of America's top givers."


It's good to be rich.
2017-02-07 3:25 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

It's pretty obvious how she wants to manage the budget - i.e. funneling public dollars to private (Christian) schools.

Awesome!

And how would you feel if she instead wanted more schools teaching Islam?  Not that this administration would've confirmed such a person.




I would be furious just like you! ;-)


2017-02-07 3:34 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

So what are your thoughts about Devos?

She's not a teacher, professor, principal or even a coach.  She's a billionaire lobbyist.

Nothing wrong with being a billionaire. I'd be one myself if I weren't so broke. "In 2015, the DeVos Foundation made $11.6 million in charitable contributions, bringing the couple's lifetime charitable giving to $139 million. Forbes ranked the DeVos family #24 on its 2015 list of America's top givers." It's good to be rich.

Yeah if you want to be in this Cabinet for sure.

2017-02-07 3:45 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
I think we can all agree the public school system in the country sucks. Getting someone from that background is, IMO, inbreeding the problem. Floating the job to a high level party hack has failed, so maybe it's time to try something different. And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...
2017-02-07 3:54 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

2017-02-07 5:56 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.





I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.
2017-02-07 6:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-02-07 6:33 PM


2017-02-07 7:16 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.





They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above?
2017-02-07 7:20 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.

  I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. 

So do I......any idea how a single mother of 3 making $15,000 a year gets that done?   Again....the problem with education in this country isn't a public/private school issue, it's a poverty issue.  Period.

2017-02-07 8:08 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.

  I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. 

So do I......any idea how a single mother of 3 making $15,000 a year gets that done?   Again....the problem with education in this country isn't a public/private school issue, it's a poverty issue.  Period.

I don't get how vouchers will make it possible for poor kids to go to private school. Take my kid's private school... They have a building that fits about 45 kids. They charge $15,000 per year and pride themselves on small classes and a tight community. This is not a school that wants to grow - they turn kids away each year. All of the sudden, I get a voucher for $5,000 and so does everyone else in town. They don't have room for any extra kids. So they raise tuition to $20,000 per year and have the same enrollment. So, the same privileged kids go to the private school, and meanwhile, the public school just got a lot less funds.

I read the article you posted. And the guy is really adamant about how Betsy De Vos wants everyone to have a quality education. Yay!! But nowhere in the article does he explain how school choice is actually going to help the poor kids. Taking funds from their schools isn't going to do it.

2017-02-07 8:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.

  I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. 

So do I......any idea how a single mother of 3 making $15,000 a year gets that done?   Again....the problem with education in this country isn't a public/private school issue, it's a poverty issue.  Period.

I don't get how vouchers will make it possible for poor kids to go to private school. Take my kid's private school... They have a building that fits about 45 kids. They charge $15,000 per year and pride themselves on small classes and a tight community. This is not a school that wants to grow - they turn kids away each year. All of the sudden, I get a voucher for $5,000 and so does everyone else in town. They don't have room for any extra kids. So they raise tuition to $20,000 per year and have the same enrollment. So, the same privileged kids go to the private school, and meanwhile, the public school just got a lot less funds.

I read the article you posted. And the guy is really adamant about how Betsy De Vos wants everyone to have a quality education. Yay!! But nowhere in the article does he explain how school choice is actually going to help the poor kids. Taking funds from their schools isn't going to do it.

Absolutely right....getting a voucher will not allow your kid to go to private school.....there is still tuition.  Vouchers are for people who can already afford private school.....any other explanation is a lie.

We MUST resurrect the public schools in our inner cities.  Every change we would all like to see starts with education.  Education starts with good schools.  Good schools leads to pride in neighborhoods, pride in neighborhoods leads to good property values.  Good property values leads to companies willing to invest in those neighborhoods.  That investment leads to decent jobs for the newly educated.  Decent jobs leads to more stable families and props up those neighborhoods even further.  THIS has been the story of the middle class since this country reached it's heyday.

Make America Great Again?  I agree.  Don't send me some rich gal who doesn't know chit about what it takes to make great neighborhoods and great schools.  She never had to build chit and, judging from the answers she gave during her confirmation hearing, doesn't have a clue how to.  This is a bad appointment....from either side of the isle. Money won.....period.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2017-02-07 8:45 PM
2017-02-07 9:10 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

And thinking she's going to dump $$$ into christian schools in nothing but MSNBCNN nonsense...

FWIW I have read nothing about her from that site (nor have I read that site in awhile anyhow).  Go read her Wikipedia page for starters -- a page she herself could modify if she disagreed with any of it.

I read Wikipedia and it says she gave her own money to Christian schools. That is admirable. I see nothing anywhere where she sent public money anywhere. Please cite your source.

Rog - if she is for vouchers then that's all you need to know.  Vouchers allow people who are paying for their kids education at a private school to lower their tax bill to fund public schools.  That in itself funnels money from public schools to private schools.  You don't need a source, it's just math.

This is all I know about education......if you don't find a way to rebuild the schools in our inner cities, this country is doomed.  I don't think vouchers is the way to do that, but there are certainly bigger fish to fry. 

My problem with Devos, besides the fact that she seems to know nothing of the current education system (so how the hell would she know what's broke), is that she is a product of extreme wealth and privilege when it comes to education....that's not the experience of the great majority of Americans who depend on public education.

You can say that education is not the purpose of govt.........and that's fine.  But paying for the uneducated is (because you WILL pay for them one way or another).....pick your poison.

  I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. 

So do I......any idea how a single mother of 3 making $15,000 a year gets that done?   Again....the problem with education in this country isn't a public/private school issue, it's a poverty issue.  Period.

I don't get how vouchers will make it possible for poor kids to go to private school. Take my kid's private school... They have a building that fits about 45 kids. They charge $15,000 per year and pride themselves on small classes and a tight community. This is not a school that wants to grow - they turn kids away each year. All of the sudden, I get a voucher for $5,000 and so does everyone else in town. They don't have room for any extra kids. So they raise tuition to $20,000 per year and have the same enrollment. So, the same privileged kids go to the private school, and meanwhile, the public school just got a lot less funds.

I read the article you posted. And the guy is really adamant about how Betsy De Vos wants everyone to have a quality education. Yay!! But nowhere in the article does he explain how school choice is actually going to help the poor kids. Taking funds from their schools isn't going to do it.

Absolutely right....getting a voucher will not allow your kid to go to private school.....there is still tuition.  Vouchers are for people who can already afford private school.....any other explanation is a lie.

We MUST resurrect the public schools in our inner cities.  Every change we would all like to see starts with education.  Education starts with good schools.  Good schools leads to pride in neighborhoods, pride in neighborhoods leads to good property values.  Good property values leads to companies willing to invest in those neighborhoods.  That investment leads to decent jobs for the newly educated.  Decent jobs leads to more stable families and props up those neighborhoods even further.  THIS has been the story of the middle class since this country reached it's heyday.

Make America Great Again?  I agree.  Don't send me some rich gal who doesn't know chit about what it takes to make great neighborhoods and great schools.  She never had to build chit and, judging from the answers she gave during her confirmation hearing, doesn't have a clue how to.  This is a bad appointment....from either side of the isle. Money won.....period.

 

I could not agree more.  I'll make a socialist out of you yet :P



2017-02-07 9:21 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? 

Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P

2017-02-08 9:08 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec
Originally posted by spudone

They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? 

Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P




Yeah, an I won't see a tax break for not growing wheat.


So have children and you can get them educated for free! Well, free to you. Education at the expense of tax payers.


OK, let me do some math....

72 million kids under the age of 18. So lets say 13/18ths are in school (taking out kids under 5) = 52 million.

Taxpayer expense: 536 billion (2004 - 2005 school year)

536 billion dollars / 52 million children = $10,306 dollars for every single school aged kid.


We can do better. Private schools can do better.
2017-02-08 9:09 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? 

Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P

Yeah, an I won't see a tax break for not growing wheat. So have children and you can get them educated for free! Well, free to you. Education at the expense of tax payers. OK, let me do some math.... 72 million kids under the age of 18. So lets say 13/18ths are in school (taking out kids under 5) = 52 million. Taxpayer expense: 536 billion (2004 - 2005 school year) 536 billion dollars / 52 million children = $10,306 dollars for every single school aged kid. We can do better. Private schools can do better.

really? that actually doesn't seem that expensive

2017-02-08 9:32 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Exucation Sec

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Something has to change.  I'm not sure if its vouchers, scholarship tax credits, or what.  What we are doing now is not working.

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