Early Vertical Forearm Necessary?
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Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2017-02-19 9:09 PM |
93 | Subject: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Do many of you work on Early Vertical Forearm (EVF)/high elbow? I've been working on this for probably around two years, not long after I first heard of it. I would say that I pretty much have it down on the right arm but still struggle with my left arm. I'm convinced that learning EVF is essential. In addition to the improved force that can be generated with each stroke and the minimizing of wasted energy by avoiding unnecessarily pushing down toward the bottom of the pool, I think it also helps with keeping your body flat and close to the surface of the water since when you push down on the water, your body compensates for this force by tilting downward, resulting in sinking legs. I would be interested in hearing from others regarding the necessity of EVF in triathlon swimming (I've met at least two decent triathletes who don't believe it's necessary), how long it took some of you to learn EVF, why you think it helps, what tricks you used to learn this swimming technique, etc. Edited by Trilogy 2017-02-19 9:32 PM |
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2017-02-19 10:49 PM in reply to: Trilogy |
Regular 694 Tucson, AZ | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by Trilogy Do many of you work on Early Vertical Forearm (EVF)/high elbow? I've been working on this for probably around two years, not long after I first heard of it. I would say that I pretty much have it down on the right arm but still struggle with my left arm. I'm convinced that learning EVF is essential. In addition to the improved force that can be generated with each stroke and the minimizing of wasted energy by avoiding unnecessarily pushing down toward the bottom of the pool, I think it also helps with keeping your body flat and close to the surface of the water since when you push down on the water, your body compensates for this force by tilting downward, resulting in sinking legs. I would be interested in hearing from others regarding the necessity of EVF in triathlon swimming (I've met at least two decent triathletes who don't believe it's necessary), how long it took some of you to learn EVF, why you think it helps, what tricks you used to learn this swimming technique, etc. EVF was easily the biggest change in time I ever saw in my own swim progression, it was something crazy like 15-30 seconds over 400 consistently. It took about 2-3 weeks of focus to get it down. It still isn't perfect, but mobility is an issue with me. |
2017-02-20 1:30 AM in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri |
93 | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by ThomasGerlach ProTri EVF was easily the biggest change in time I ever saw in my own swim progression, it was something crazy like 15-30 seconds over 400 consistently. It took about 2-3 weeks of focus to get it down. It still isn't perfect, but mobility is an issue with me. That's huge! Around 1-2 minutes for 1500m. For me, I think the biggest benefit has been no drop in times even though I'm getting older and even though I'm swimming far less than before I started doing triathlons. Continued improvements in EVF is why I think I can swim the same times as I did three years ago, even though I'm swimming once or at the most twice a week (when previously it was 2-3 times per week, plus weights that focused on shoulder and back muscles). |
2017-02-20 4:28 AM in reply to: Trilogy |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? There is a podcast from a guy named Gerry Rodriguez called Tower 26. He is one of the most respected guys in triathlon swimming. This week's show is on EVF. |
2017-02-20 10:58 AM in reply to: Trilogy |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? This video by Jonathan Caron might help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KReTEXiBM Increasing internal shoulder rotation can help achieve a more pronounced EVF.
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2017-02-20 4:55 PM in reply to: marcag |
233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by marcag There is a podcast from a guy named Gerry Rodriguez called Tower 26. He is one of the most respected guys in triathlon swimming. This week's show is on EVF. Just listened to that this morning on the way to swim practice. Interesting conversation
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2017-02-20 6:44 PM in reply to: marcag |
93 | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by marcag There is a podcast from a guy named Gerry Rodriguez called Tower 26. He is one of the most respected guys in triathlon swimming. This week's show is on EVF. I really enjoyed that. Thanks for letting us know. But he seems to be somewhat negative on the benefits of EVF. He sees a 15-30 second gain in the 1500m race performance in the last forty years or so (I listened the beginning half or so last night with my son making a lot of noise in the other so my memory might be a bit hazy), and he feels this is not so remarkable. He feels it may or may not have anything to do with EVF and more likely has to do with better diving, better turns, and better dolphin kicks (remember he's comparing to a period before EVF was used). In the end, though, he seems to say that while the extreme EVF (where you're really popping your elbow up very high and very early) is not necessary, perhaps getting a high elbow after your arm has sunk down a bit could still be useful. Hmmm. It seems to me that with swimmers that race ALL distances using EVF, there must be something to it. And perhaps 15-30 seconds in the 1500m is quite substantial, even though it took some decades for the improvement. |
2017-02-20 7:23 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
93 | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by TriMyBest This video by Jonathan Caron might help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KReTEXiBM Increasing internal shoulder rotation can help achieve a more pronounced EVF.
Very nice. I think I see now why my right arm can do EVF while my left arm can't. |
2017-02-20 8:25 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Originally posted by Trilogy . . . I would be interested in hearing from others regarding the necessity of EVF in triathlon swimming . . .. It's REALLY simple. Look at ANY underwater video from ANY championship freestyle race, such as this one of Katie Ledecky at the 2012 Olympics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUtde_vtmIQ Or this one of Grant Hackett and Ian Thorpe in the 2001 800m Freestyle World Championship - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqNk5dZEPA What do you see? EVERY swimmer you can see has an EVF. Fast swimming is fast swimming. While it is true that swimmers are often swimming anaerobically while triathletes are staying aerobic, at the end of the day, technique to swim fast is the same. Anyone that tells you you don't need to do an EVF really doesn't understand swim mechanics. Edited by k9car363 2017-02-20 8:26 PM |
2017-02-20 10:00 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? |
2017-02-20 10:21 PM in reply to: #5213959 |
44 | Subject: RE: Early Vertical Forearm Necessary? Amazing you post this. I have struggled to improve my swimming for a couple of years. I saw some info a few months ago on EVF. I started working on this and have improved my 230 average per 100 to a 208 per 100 in less than 2 months. I am 100% positive I have poor mechanics. And until to improve on that I will never be fast. I will saw though. I have really improved recently just by working on EVF |
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