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2017-03-07 9:31 AM


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Subject: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
So, does anybody "wing it"? For longer distances?

By "wing it", I mean....not specifically follow a "numbers" plan for a race? Doesn't mean they're going in completely blind, but they are going in without an exacting plan beyond...a general matrix of pace/MPH/conditions/how they feel.
A friend wants to know.

That's the short version.

The long version...

This friend loves numbers. But doesn't' have the money or patience to dial it in. For shorter stuff, he just goes as good as he can. For longer distances, he's pretty confident with his 70.3 performances. He says he ends strong and has never felt gassed in the slightest. Granted, he's a completer and upper MOPer who's satisfied with his progressive gains that come basically through just getting better having been a former fat guy and has now been actively active for a couple years and has improved his gear and mixed in some more dynamic (albeit fairly limited) training for speed improvements.

It's not like he goes out completely blind. He tells me he's using what could be defined as a modified RPE method. Like, according to him, in a race he goes by general feel at a given point compared to how he's felt during various training sessions. Also, being that hammering naturally causes some discomfort,. he avoids it during races...in favor of maybe saying "hi" to the guy or gal next to him, or reading every sign that people hold up and genuinely enjoys being out...which keeps him from hammering.

This bucket-listing fool may, or may not, have signed up for a 140.6 this year and is a little worried. He assures me he's aware that it's a completely different animal. He will acquire some heart rate data, but he found it to be somewhat irrelevant in the past. Over the course of a long ride, the only time the heart rate would ever 'get up there' was on hills he tended to seek out...mix in stop lights, traffic, etc....and his rides usually look completely different than anything he'd ever see on race day.

In the past, he's used that Super Simple 70.3 training plan...and will likely use the Super Simple plan from the same author for the 140.6. "Moderately hard" means as much, if not more, at this point than RPEx. He's also prepared to trot/walk (half?) the run. In fact, when he's done the mental math of "will he finish?" that's accounted for. Well accounted for. Don't get me wrong, he will train fastidiously. He will RACE (albeit explicitly for himself), and expects to beat his very conservative time estimate. He does every other time. Remember, he's 40+ and used to weigh 300+ lbs.

Should I tell my friend he's nuts and he needs to really develop an exacting plan? Or do you think I can tell this numbskull that if he collects more of that HR data as he extends his training sessions that he can reasonably sharpen up that educated guesswork of a 'modified RPE' kind of thing?

Am I making sense or do I need to get some more clarification from this guy? I think he's just having the same early jitters he had when he ran his first few races or signed up for his first 70.3.





2017-03-07 10:17 AM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Tell "your buddy" he and I are in the same boat. I'm 52. The only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.

I always run by HR. What I mean is.....I record it and monitor it on every run. I try to see if I can tell when it's getting out of where I need it to be, in case I lose that metric during a race.

So yeah.....I'm using power, HR and RPE the whole time (now). I'll always (from now on) reference all of them. IMO, anyone who disregards one or two of them.....is winging it.
2017-03-07 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it

Originally posted by nc452010  IMO, anyone who disregards one or two of them.....is winging it.

Cool quote!

With additional experience, winging it certainly becomes easier.  There are those tough days when you just don't have "it" during a race and have to dial back below plan to avoid a spectacular blow up (or just survive).  There are others when you're "on" (perfect taper or whatever), and you can eek out a bit more than plan for that PR.  I personally can't do that without a few prior goes at a given distance and a solid training block prior (by the time I'm tapering, I can usually guess my HR on a run to within a beat or two).

First time through, though, it's darn tough to tell early on if you have more than expected in the tank (and with a 140.6 I can only guess, but "early" is probably still many HOURS into the race!).  So, I'd approach it conservatively and use what/all signals you can (or are willing to pay attention to) to avoid going even a little too hard too early.

Longer stuff below (as in, TLDR terroir and just my experience)...

From my limited experience (only up through 70.3):  For short course, as I've done more of those races, I use RPE in all three legs, HR on bike and run, power on the bike and pace on the run.  HR on the bike should be matching my RPE target - same for HR on the run.  That's part of how I guess whether to push harder or not.  Power in short course is less useful to me, although at Oly level I do try to limit (not eliminate) my spikes (in number and degree), depending on how the race develops.  On the run, if I can see dudes in my AG on course, then it gets tactical (I love that) - otherwise I just go at an effort that historically would have my shelled at the end.  Hence, experience playing a big role.

In long course (only done 3 HIMs), it's a bit different for me.  I won't redline the swim and only allow myself a couple or three surges to get and then stay on fast feet, if I've found them.  Otherwise, it's all RPE (obviously).  On the bike, I plan to be in a target HR the whole ride, using power to make sure I'm not spiking/surging, no matter who blasts by me yelling, "Nice swim!" or such.    For me, the PM is great in training but mostly an excursion monitor in the race to ensure I don't overcook on a hill or such. For the run, it's mostly HR for me - and usually it's trying to go harder harder harder to get my HR into a target zone (although a couple of times I've pulled back from a pace, it's usually the converse).  Like I said, only done a few of these, but have approached them very differently and find the data (especially on the bike, using mostly HR and power) to have really helped metering out energy to have not much left in the tank on crossing the line - but not bonking 5 miles into the run, either.

So, I suppose I'm saying that IME it's been distance and experience gated.  Short course, then more winging it.  70.3, more by the numbers but a greater degree of winging with each experience.  140.6?  I have no idea, but I'd sure think long and hard about how I'd lay down an even effort and not spike until those last couple hundred meters! 

As always, YMMV...

Hope "your friend" has a great time training and racing.  An Ironman - how cool!

Matt

edited (poorly, still) for clarity



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2017-03-07 11:20 AM
2017-03-07 12:52 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it

Full disclosure: I've never done an Ironman, but have done quite a few HIM's....I've done some shorter races as well, but I'm not particularly good at short, fast stuff, so I don't enjoy it as much.

Here's the thing (at least for me)....RPE is a big, fat liar when it comes to racing!  Early in the race, everything feels easy....I mean, you're tapered, you're excited, there are people passing you who certainly shouldn't be able to pass you....so you throw down with the false perception that it's "easy" and you're within your planned RPE and whatever other lie you want to tell yourself

Later in the race (and even if you ignored the lying-RPE jerk early on), you start to realize you still have "a while" to go on the bike and you have a big run in front of you....and suddenly, RPE is lying to you in the other way, saying you're totally going to blow up and you can't maintain this effort and you need to back it off.

But if you have HR and power metrics (that you've trained extensively with), you can figure out if RPE is lying to you.  RPE is a tricky SOB and sometimes lies and sometimes tells the truth....sometimes you think it's lying (in one way or the other) and it's telling the truth.  But if you have HR and power to cross check (and have taken into account any environmental conditions....), it's easier to tell if you're going too hard or your sandbagging it.

Like I said, this is how it is for me.  I suspect it's different for others, but for an IM distance race, you have a lot of time to screw up, and once you've screwed up, it's pretty hard to recover from it.  The beauty of these races is that there's rarely (never?) such a thing as biking too easy....because if you reserved way too much energy on the bike, you still have a marathon in which to expend the energy.  But if you bike too hard, you still have a full marathon to slog through, which sounds pretty miserable to me.

 

So do you need all the metrics?  No.  Can you "wing it"?  I suppose you could, but I wouldn't recommend it....at least get out there and do the training and understand what it feels like to ride for X number of hours and then run for a short period off the bike -- rinse and repeat until you get it figured out.  Or invest time and money into getting all the metrics, but  you still have to get out and ride for X number of hours, run off the bike, and decide if you nailed it or if it needs some work.  And if you really, really want to "wing it", go stupidly easy on the bike and reserve all your energy for the run!

 

2017-03-07 12:52 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
So, for what its worth, tell your 'buddy' that I trained using HR, and RPE for my first Ironman. Come race day I used my data not to plan my race, but to rather 'spotcheck' how I was doing. I felt that if my numbers were off for whatever reason I would get myself mentally worked up and eventually deflate and mentally defeat myself. On long courses I really stay inside my head. During my training I endured a blizzard and a hurricane, that equated to vast mental toughness that I could have wasted on agonizing over numbers on race day.

By spotchecking my numbers against the hardest training sessions I had let me know if I was going strong, or needed to back off. I didn't plan targets or zones or anything. The race course has a funny way of screwing up plans, on bike mile 5 during a 5000'+ climb my rear derailleur ceased shifting into my lowest gear, couldn't plan for that, couldn't prepare for that, it happened, and could have completely destroyed my detailed race plan, if I had had one...

Long story short, use the numbers for training, race by the feel of it. Listen to your body and respond to that. enjoy the race.

BTW my first 140.6 I was 2nd in my AG. so I guess I did something right...
2017-03-07 1:49 PM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by nc452010

TThe only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.



The problem with riding at 80% of FTP is that you need an accurate FTP number, which IIRC you didn't have going into your race. Riding 80% of an over estimated FTP number is almost a guarantee for problems.




2017-03-07 1:54 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it

Originally posted by ligersandtions

RPE is a big, fat liar 

the lying-RPE jerk

RPE is a tricky SOB 

 

So awesome.  

2017-03-07 2:40 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

TThe only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.



The problem with riding at 80% of FTP is that you need an accurate FTP number, which IIRC you didn't have going into your race. Riding 80% of an over estimated FTP number is almost a guarantee for problems.





Not sure how you remember it. It was tested by one of the accepted protocols. I actually figured on a little less than 80% as my target and hit my target.

The problem with riding 80% of FTP is.....it wasn't 94 deg. when I tested. It was 94 deg. the day I raced.
2017-03-07 2:54 PM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

TThe only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.



The problem with riding at 80% of FTP is that you need an accurate FTP number, which IIRC you didn't have going into your race. Riding 80% of an over estimated FTP number is almost a guarantee for problems.





Not sure how you remember it. It was tested by one of the accepted protocols. I actually figured on a little less than 80% as my target and hit my target.

The problem with riding 80% of FTP is.....it wasn't 94 deg. when I tested. It was 94 deg. the day I raced.


I do remember the thread. It was one of those "what % of my test should I use" and I remember it was close to your race and your first test. Yes, heat needs to be factored in, but probably less than a well established FTP on which several rehearsal rides were done to confirm. If I rode at 80% of the result of a 20min test, I guarantee I would blow up, in any weather.
2017-03-07 7:38 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

TThe only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.



The problem with riding at 80% of FTP is that you need an accurate FTP number, which IIRC you didn't have going into your race. Riding 80% of an over estimated FTP number is almost a guarantee for problems.





Not sure how you remember it. It was tested by one of the accepted protocols. I actually figured on a little less than 80% as my target and hit my target.

The problem with riding 80% of FTP is.....it wasn't 94 deg. when I tested. It was 94 deg. the day I raced.


I do remember the thread. It was one of those "what % of my test should I use" and I remember it was close to your race and your first test. Yes, heat needs to be factored in, but probably less than a well established FTP on which several rehearsal rides were done to confirm. If I rode at 80% of the result of a 20min test, I guarantee I would blow up, in any weather.



I had 7 rides ranging from 50 to 70 miles to compare power data from (leading up to my race). Maybe that's not a lot. I really don't know. I know I paced my weekend rides at what I thought should be HIM pacing (using RPE and then checking power numbers when I finished). 80% of FTP seemed do-able (I did it several times). But, I never ran 13.1 off those rides. I should have done more runs off my longer runs. THAT, I'll own.
2017-03-08 12:15 AM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by nc452010

TThe only time I ever got into trouble in a race is the time I tried to ride a 70.3 course at my "80% of FTP" number. I failed to factor in the 94 deg. heat OR the fact I'd flatted at mi. 2.5 and spiked my HR through the roof. From mi. 6 of the run, it was hell.



The problem with riding at 80% of FTP is that you need an accurate FTP number, which IIRC you didn't have going into your race. Riding 80% of an over estimated FTP number is almost a guarantee for problems.





Not sure how you remember it. It was tested by one of the accepted protocols. I actually figured on a little less than 80% as my target and hit my target.

The problem with riding 80% of FTP is.....it wasn't 94 deg. when I tested. It was 94 deg. the day I raced.


I do remember the thread. It was one of those "what % of my test should I use" and I remember it was close to your race and your first test. Yes, heat needs to be factored in, but probably less than a well established FTP on which several rehearsal rides were done to confirm. If I rode at 80% of the result of a 20min test, I guarantee I would blow up, in any weather.



this might be the thread in question...
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...




2017-03-08 4:43 AM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Dunno about IM, but I raced my first three HIM with no power meter or specific time targets, strictly by "feel", and did not have issues with overcooking the pace on the bike, or bonking, cramping, etc. on the run as a result. For my first and third race, I had strong runs. For the second, I was so ill that honestly, it would not have mattered what I did on the bike--I was going to die on the run and that was a foregone conclusion. I had been sick for a couple days before the race and just wasn't healthy enough to race up to my ability for nearly six hours. I made a conscious decision to take it easy on the swim, see what I could do on the bike, and just finish the run. I also raced 70.3 Worlds last year without a working Garmin or any data beyond total race time. I had a strong bike leg once one takes off the extra 10+ km. I rode after missing a turn. But that wasn't a pacing issue. I paced well and had a decent run despite riding totally by feel and riding extra. In fact, I don't think I have ever done a run race (in 37 years of running) with a Garmin or other pacing tool. Not so fast any more but that included an Olympic Trials marathon qualification. I did have a pace plan and a watch--no Garmin. Maybe not invented yet!

I think it depends on the athlete. It requires a lot of experience with training and racing long distances, perhaps some "natural" pacing ability, and a lot of discipline and self-awareness to keep a cool head in a long race without detailed data. I have that. I have been running long distances since age 14 and seem to have a natural ability to NOT start too fast and pace myself in a long event. I do feel confident that if needed, I could successfully race full IM without any tech toys and would not overcook the bike. I just know my body and how to work with it. Particularly if I had done some rides close to IM distance runs and some brick runs after them, and especially if they were in similar terrain and weather conditions, I'd be fine with doing it by "feel". I would know what bike effort I could sustain in order to have a decent run.

What I DON'T feel confident of is that it would be an optimal race for my fitness at the time, as opposed to just completing or finishing upright and smiling. I've found that I actually use the power meter to push myself to bike harder than I would if racing by feel, not less hard, and it helps me to have an honest, consistent effort throughout the course. Without it, I have a tendency to push much too hard on hills and into wind, and coast too much when the course feels "easier". I have raced faster with the PM, and that is probably partly an effect of evening out my effort on the bike.

But if his goal is "just" to complete, and he has put in the training and has that degree of "feel" and self-control, then he should be fine. There are also downsides to all those tech toys, like over-extending oneself to pursue a set power or pace goal when conditions (weather, health, course changes, etc.) make that inappropriate on the day, or having ones's race plan shot all to h... when, as happened for me at Worlds, for the only time in one's life, one's Garmin mysteriously refuses to turn on. Remember that people raced marathons, IM, and multi-day cycle races long before Garmins and power meters came on the scene.

Edited by Hot Runner 2017-03-08 4:46 AM
2017-03-08 6:29 AM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Just looked back at my fastest HIM (Calgary). I did ride at very close to 80% of FTP (159 watts NP with an FTP of 204--both race and test in similar temps though race was slightly at altitude). All I can say is that really, really hurt and I would not have done it had I not been using my PM and had my coach not told me she thought I could do hold that. Really at no point on that ride did I feel comfortable, or confident that I would have a good run, but I did. Did have a few issues with cramping just out of transition and in the last few kilometers, and the run was probably not ideal, but it was faster than all but one of my HIM (my first, almost five years before), and within three minutes of that, and that was my fastest HIM by 15 minutes. I would definitely not ride at that effort level if my goal was to "complete".

I think those % of FTP that you see as targets for various distances really depend on what kind of rider/athlete you are, similar to the values for run paces. My max power is not that impressive, since I am light weight and not a super-strong biker, but my endurance "engine" is strong, and maybe I can hold a higher % of max for a long time than some stronger riders with higher FTP numbers. There still needs to be an experience (training) and "feel" component to setting power targets, even if you are using technology.
2017-03-08 3:41 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it

Originally posted by ligersandtions

RPE is a big, fat liar when it comes to racing! 

I would second this ^^^^

I will wing it for a Sprint distance but don't have any confidence in racing on RPE alone for a HIM or even for an Olympic.

The risk of going too hard on the bike and blowing up on run is too big. 

For the HIM in particular, I've only raced one but for the first half of the bike I had to constantly dial back the power because, by RPE alone, it felt too easy.

2017-03-09 9:43 AM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Pacing is a tricky beast. And since every day is different, we're all kind of winging it and hoping it works out. Now the more experience and info you have the better off, but that's not to say bad things still can't happen if you're flirting on that edge trying to do your absolute best.

I personally use power more than anything but will spot check my HR at longer distances. Once again, the key to using power (along with RPE or whatever), is getting experienced with the race day efforts. Once a week for several weeks do a 90-120min ride at HIM power followed by 3-10 mile runs. Short runs faster, long runs a little slower. Do this and you should have your race efforts pretty dialed in and should set yourself up for a good day.

So anyway, to answer your question, the goal should be to wing it as little as possible.
2017-03-09 12:08 PM
in reply to: nc452010


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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
How far did you run off your long bikes?

I am awful at pacing and have started using a heart rate monitor to help. For a half in June I am targeting 80% of my LTHR for my bike pacing. I have been holding that pace for my long rides and then running 6 off the bike. So far that pace has worked well, but maybe I am fooling myself.

Matt


2017-03-09 2:46 PM
in reply to: mstimpson


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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Just jumping in here. Can't afford Power. Simple as that. So, if I know that high Z3-Z4 for me is let's say, 145-153 (HR) and I wore a monitor during a long race, cant this be an adequate way to pace?
2017-03-09 3:53 PM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by Burchib

Just jumping in here. Can't afford Power. Simple as that. So, if I know that high Z3-Z4 for me is let's say, 145-153 (HR) and I wore a monitor during a long race, cant this be an adequate way to pace?


HR is a great way to pace HIM and IM racing
But most important is to do rehearsals at your target and run off the bike.
2017-03-09 10:50 PM
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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
I think the longest brick run I ever did for my last few HIM was a 40-ish minute run after a long bike; for my first three HIM it was more like 50-55 minutes. At my HIM race pace that would be roughly 5-7 miles. For me, if I can run that far after a certain level of effort on the bike, I should be good to go for the race. In reality, I would know even from a 20 minute run if I'd overcooked the bike. If I feel bad and am not feeling better by the end of about 15 minutes, then that bike pace probably was not sustainable for HIM at current fitness. Have never really had any late-run surprises except for occasional cramping if I over-run a hill late in the run course. I have been fine as long as I remind myself not to do that or go up on my toes for hills late in the race.
2017-03-10 4:57 AM
in reply to: mstimpson

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by mstimpson

How far did you run off your long bikes?

I am awful at pacing and have started using a heart rate monitor to help. For a half in June I am targeting 80% of my LTHR for my bike pacing. I have been holding that pace for my long rides and then running 6 off the bike. So far that pace has worked well, but maybe I am fooling myself.

Matt


For the first half, I did about like you (6 off the bike) at least 2X. I did a couple-3 big days where I swam/bike/ran same day. I didn't do that as much on the second. I do believe this was "a" factor in my troubles in the 2nd.
2017-03-10 8:34 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner


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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Originally posted by Hot Runner

I think the longest brick run I ever did for my last few HIM was a 40-ish minute run after a long bike; for my first three HIM it was more like 50-55 minutes. At my HIM race pace that would be roughly 5-7 miles. For me, if I can run that far after a certain level of effort on the bike, I should be good to go for the race. In reality, I would know even from a 20 minute run if I'd overcooked the bike. If I feel bad and am not feeling better by the end of about 15 minutes, then that bike pace probably was not sustainable for HIM at current fitness. Have never really had any late-run surprises except for occasional cramping if I over-run a hill late in the run course. I have been fine as long as I remind myself not to do that or go up on my toes for hills late in the race.


This is the idea and model I have been following. When I finish up the 6 miles, I am tired but could keep going. I also agree that I would know within about 20 minutes if I had biked too hard. Of course, I am also really holding back on the run, keeping it a zone 2 run and plan to do so through the majority of the run on race day.

The brick here serves two purposes for me. One it lets me see if my bike pacing seems to be on track. Two, it allows me to get in another medium distance run in at a reasonably convenient time for family.

Matt


2017-03-10 12:02 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Burchib Just jumping in here. Can't afford Power. Simple as that. So, if I know that high Z3-Z4 for me is let's say, 145-153 (HR) and I wore a monitor during a long race, cant this be an adequate way to pace?

HR is a great way to pace HIM and IM racing But most important is to do rehearsals at your target and run off the bike.

Agree.  I use power much more in HIM training to know what my target power and HR together are, but race **mostly** off the HR part of that.  That way I'm good even if the PM packs it in.

Only thing I'd add to Marc's comment is that HR can lag your output by enough to spike your power substantially before you'd "know" it on your HRM.  So for a HR only pacing method **for me**, I'd be extra cautious about excursions the first 30" (at least that's when I get most fired up by someone passing me before I really settle in) and then on any hills and turn-arounds.

All that to say, HR is great but you don't want a lot of short spikes way outside your steady effort zone (which can disproportionately hurt your run), so you just need to be careful in situations where those might happen.

Matt

2017-03-10 5:07 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
HR is also pretty seriously impacted by temperature. Just something to keep in mind if the you set your zones in really different conditions to those on race day. Race-day adrenaline and caffeine consumption can also jack it up to some extent. Basically it's a decent guide but not quite as reliable as power, probably better than RPE for most but maybe not all people.
2017-03-12 10:00 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: RPE/Watts/HR/and Numbers, and winging it
Yes. I winged it for every triathlon I've ever done. Every race has been done on feel alone. I guess I'm old school. 30 years ago most people just winged it. If it was good enough for the likes of Scott Tinley and Dave Scott, it was good enough for me. My first HIM at age 53 was done on a road bike with clip on aerobars and shifters. Not any different than those guys used.

The caveat is you have to put in some serious training. You do long bricks in training and figure out what you need to do through trial and error. You push yourself to the point of bonking in training so you don't do it in a race. All the modern gizmos can help eliminate the trial and error, but it's entirely possible to do it all without any of it.
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