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2017-03-09 2:22 PM

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Subject: Wage Gap
What do you all think when politicians make the claim about women earning ~77 cents for every dollar a man does? I've seen a solid amount of data that shows once you compare men and women in specific jobs, the delta is much smaller. There are pretty simple explanations for the deltas including women purposefully going into lower paying fields (by getting degrees in those fields). Data also shows that men work more hours in many industries, so again I would think it would be obvious why they get paid more. Men and women should be able to choose if they work over time or not.

We should definitely work on getting more women in STEM and other higher paying areas, and couples should be encouraged to look at the husband as being the one who takes the brunt of family responsibility if it makes sense. But why should we blame employers?


2017-03-09 2:32 PM
in reply to: jmcconne

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Wage Gap

That 77 cents argument is based upon comparing the median salaries of men and women.  It's useful to get people riled-up but has little significance otherwise.

Women being primary caretakers of both children and other family members does make a difference even with similarly situated employees.  I don't believe the gov't should be stepping in to regulate paid family leave, but if an employer wants to provide that - more power to them.  Many of the employers that consistently grade high on best places to work offer very good policies regarding leave, remote working, child care and flexible hours.  If they can do that and compete in the market good for them - many are high tech companies that benefit from offering these perks to get the labor force they require. 

2017-03-09 3:11 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
We all know the obvious reasons for the huge gap is because of the types of jobs men and women gravitate to.

But, ceteris paribus or all things being equal there is a gap but it is much smaller. Here are a few reasons:

1. Women are willing to work for less and companies know this. So they low-ball them on the job offer and they accept. But if they low-ball men, they are more likely to not accept or counter-offer.

2. Men shamelessly toot their own horns!

Good job on that proposal Mac!
Thanks! I spent a lot of time on it including working nights and weekends.

Good job on that proposal Mary!
Oh, it was team effort. We all work on it together.


3. Men are more competitive and will do whatever it takes to claw their way to the top.

4. Men are usually not the primary car giver for children. Need somebody to work till midnight on something you are Mac is more likely to be available than Mary.

5. The men's club. Let's all meet at Kelly's bar after work and drink some beers. Who is in?

Mac: I'm in!

Mary: Sorry, I have to pick up the kids from day care and take them to dance class.

6. Networking. Company golf tournament this weekend. Who's in?



Obviously there are exceptions to all of these but I believe them to be true 'in general'.

Lots more reasons too. Men and woman are just different! Women have different talents and skill sets then men. And they'd look foolish at a BOGSA meeting smoking cigars and sipping brandy.

Women were not created to do everything a man can do. They were created to do everything a man CAN'T do!

2017-03-09 3:29 PM
in reply to: jmcconne

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

No idea how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets their information. But according to them, of the 120 career fields that they have data on both male and female wages, there's only four where women earn more on average than men. summarydata

That data doesn't reflect years experience, job level, seniority, etc. It just lumps everyone in the same trade together into a single column. Not very many women were pursuing engineering degrees 40 years ago, which means upper management is naturally going to be skewed towards men and throw off the average salaries. So it makes sense when the data shows that the average male engineer earns more than the average female engineer. But if that's all it was, then you'd expect to see women earning more than men in traditionally female dominated careers. So when male teachers, maids, and nurses all have higher average salaries than their females counterparts, something doesn't add up. 

2017-03-09 3:51 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

No idea how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets their information. But according to them, of the 120 career fields that they have data on both male and female wages, there's only four where women earn more on average than men. summarydata

That data doesn't reflect years experience, job level, seniority, etc. It just lumps everyone in the same trade together into a single column. Not very many women were pursuing engineering degrees 40 years ago, which means upper management is naturally going to be skewed towards men and throw off the average salaries. So it makes sense when the data shows that the average male engineer earns more than the average female engineer. But if that's all it was, then you'd expect to see women earning more than men in traditionally female dominated careers. So when male teachers, maids, and nurses all have higher average salaries than their females counterparts, something doesn't add up. 




I've been an engineer for 30+ years and I can tell you it is overwhelming dominated by men. My son recently graduated from college with a BSEE and at the graduation ceremony I noticed there were very few females taking engineering degrees. I don't think this will ever change. Men seem to enjoy math and science more than woman. Gasp! I can tell you also that woman engineers are equally compensated when you factor in years of service. Many women do like my wife did. She worked 10 years and then quit work and stayed home with the kids for a while....then came back to work part time when the kids were in school and eventually came back full time. I've never been off work for more than 2 weeks in over 30 years! My wife has been out on maternity leave a few times and then her stay-at-home mom time.
2017-03-09 4:03 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

No idea how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets their information. But according to them, of the 120 career fields that they have data on both male and female wages, there's only four where women earn more on average than men. summarydata

That data doesn't reflect years experience, job level, seniority, etc. It just lumps everyone in the same trade together into a single column. Not very many women were pursuing engineering degrees 40 years ago, which means upper management is naturally going to be skewed towards men and throw off the average salaries. So it makes sense when the data shows that the average male engineer earns more than the average female engineer. But if that's all it was, then you'd expect to see women earning more than men in traditionally female dominated careers. So when male teachers, maids, and nurses all have higher average salaries than their females counterparts, something doesn't add up. 

I've been an engineer for 30+ years and I can tell you it is overwhelming dominated by men. My son recently graduated from college with a BSEE and at the graduation ceremony I noticed there were very few females taking engineering degrees. I don't think this will ever change. Men seem to enjoy math and science more than woman. Gasp! I can tell you also that woman engineers are equally compensated when you factor in years of service. Many women do like my wife did. She worked 10 years and then quit work and stayed home with the kids for a while....then came back to work part time when the kids were in school and eventually came back full time. I've never been off work for more than 2 weeks in over 30 years! My wife has been out on maternity leave a few times and then her stay-at-home mom time.

I get all that. I'm also an engineer, and every engineering seminar I've been to is overwhelmingly attended by white men. But my mom had a 40 year career as a nurse and I saw first hand that from the head nurse on down to the freshest graduate out of nursing school, that career field is dominated by women. Yet according to the BLS data, a male RN makes about 10% more than a female RN. In the other thread you said that oil field workers make more than 1st grade teachers (I don't disagree with that). But according to the BLS data, male elementary and middle school teachers make about 15% more than their female counterparts. How can you explain that without acknowledging that there's an inherit wage gap?



2017-03-09 6:27 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

No idea how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets their information. But according to them, of the 120 career fields that they have data on both male and female wages, there's only four where women earn more on average than men. summarydata

That data doesn't reflect years experience, job level, seniority, etc. It just lumps everyone in the same trade together into a single column. Not very many women were pursuing engineering degrees 40 years ago, which means upper management is naturally going to be skewed towards men and throw off the average salaries. So it makes sense when the data shows that the average male engineer earns more than the average female engineer. But if that's all it was, then you'd expect to see women earning more than men in traditionally female dominated careers. So when male teachers, maids, and nurses all have higher average salaries than their females counterparts, something doesn't add up. 

I've been an engineer for 30+ years and I can tell you it is overwhelming dominated by men. My son recently graduated from college with a BSEE and at the graduation ceremony I noticed there were very few females taking engineering degrees. I don't think this will ever change. Men seem to enjoy math and science more than woman. Gasp! I can tell you also that woman engineers are equally compensated when you factor in years of service. Many women do like my wife did. She worked 10 years and then quit work and stayed home with the kids for a while....then came back to work part time when the kids were in school and eventually came back full time. I've never been off work for more than 2 weeks in over 30 years! My wife has been out on maternity leave a few times and then her stay-at-home mom time.

I get all that. I'm also an engineer, and every engineering seminar I've been to is overwhelmingly attended by white men. But my mom had a 40 year career as a nurse and I saw first hand that from the head nurse on down to the freshest graduate out of nursing school, that career field is dominated by women. Yet according to the BLS data, a male RN makes about 10% more than a female RN. In the other thread you said that oil field workers make more than 1st grade teachers (I don't disagree with that). But according to the BLS data, male elementary and middle school teachers make about 15% more than their female counterparts. How can you explain that without acknowledging that there's an inherit wage gap?





Maybe men are just superior at everything? (Imagine red font cause I still don't do red).
2017-03-10 8:46 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

No idea how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets their information. But according to them, of the 120 career fields that they have data on both male and female wages, there's only four where women earn more on average than men. summarydata

That data doesn't reflect years experience, job level, seniority, etc. It just lumps everyone in the same trade together into a single column. Not very many women were pursuing engineering degrees 40 years ago, which means upper management is naturally going to be skewed towards men and throw off the average salaries. So it makes sense when the data shows that the average male engineer earns more than the average female engineer. But if that's all it was, then you'd expect to see women earning more than men in traditionally female dominated careers. So when male teachers, maids, and nurses all have higher average salaries than their females counterparts, something doesn't add up. 

I've been an engineer for 30+ years and I can tell you it is overwhelming dominated by men. My son recently graduated from college with a BSEE and at the graduation ceremony I noticed there were very few females taking engineering degrees. I don't think this will ever change. Men seem to enjoy math and science more than woman. Gasp! I can tell you also that woman engineers are equally compensated when you factor in years of service. Many women do like my wife did. She worked 10 years and then quit work and stayed home with the kids for a while....then came back to work part time when the kids were in school and eventually came back full time. I've never been off work for more than 2 weeks in over 30 years! My wife has been out on maternity leave a few times and then her stay-at-home mom time.

I get all that. I'm also an engineer, and every engineering seminar I've been to is overwhelmingly attended by white men. But my mom had a 40 year career as a nurse and I saw first hand that from the head nurse on down to the freshest graduate out of nursing school, that career field is dominated by women. Yet according to the BLS data, a male RN makes about 10% more than a female RN. In the other thread you said that oil field workers make more than 1st grade teachers (I don't disagree with that). But according to the BLS data, male elementary and middle school teachers make about 15% more than their female counterparts. How can you explain that without acknowledging that there's an inherit wage gap?

Maybe men are just superior at everything? (Imagine red font cause I still don't do red).

reaction what omg shocked will smith

2017-03-10 9:44 AM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
I got into this conversation with my sister and her students had to do research papers on it. She did put an interesting twist on it I never thought about. It is choices men and women make but since women's work was always deemed less important as men's work they historical got paid less. I find it a better argument that its .77 cent to the dollar for the exact same job and experience for the exact same number hours worked. Interesting how many people will say its .77 for the SAME job.

On another note my SO and I do the same job different companies. I make .63 on every dollar she makes.

2017-03-10 11:32 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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I'm in the same boat, my wife and I have the same job, different companies. We have the same certifications and licenses, She earns roughly 70% of what I do. Arguably, she works harder than I do.
2017-03-10 12:06 PM
in reply to: aalbury

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

My wife works harder than me and makes more money than me.  Yay me!!!!



2017-03-10 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

I don't buy the argument that women don't do engineering and science because they naturally don't like it. I'm a woman, I have a chemical engineering degree. I *love* math and science, but engineering school, quite frankly, was not the most appealing place to be as a woman 15 years ago. I had about 22% women in my graduating class, which was a record high for my alma mater at the time. I really wanted a good engineering degree from a good college, but was tempted more than once to switch to a school with a more diverse cross section of people. I stuck with it, but watched many female students transfer to other fields after they got sick of the culture in engineering school. These were women who loved math and science, and excelled at it, but felt overwhelmingly out of place in a male-dominated field. And this doesn't take into account the many who were discouraged before they even got out of high school. As more women enter STEM fields, this is getting better, and things are changing. I think the school I graduated from boasts more than 30% women in the current class. My daughter thinks science is cool - she's 10. There's a concentrated effort out there to teach our girls that it's cool to like science and engineering, and I see it making a difference. I think we'll see that wage gap get smaller as we have a generation who is committed to raising our girls to believe they can do whatever they want to do. 

I *do* think the way the pay gap results are reported is a skewed representation of what is really happening out there. I think there is*a gap, but not as big as that number once you normalize for all the factors you guys cite above. But it exists. In my engineering experience, I found out a few times that we were paying more for a male new hire than a female, and it made me livid. It was very much a case of "we'll offer what we have to", which I understand - women are much less likely to negotiate salary. But that doesn't really make it ok. I found it helped to work for companies with well-defined pay structure by job level, but I'm not sure everyone has the opportunity to be choosy.

I will be the feminist here (as usual, ha!) and say it's frustrating as a woman to go to mountain bike races and see the pro women, who work their off and are just as well known as the men making less money for a win on the same exact course. This isn't football, it's not like we can make any arguments there about ticket sales paying pro salaries. It's just bull*$t. It's frustrating for me, as an artist, to see that 95% of the people invited to high end museum shows are men, because it's a good old boys' club. And it's frustrating as a woman who loves math and science but didn't feel all that welcomed in school to hear guys dismiss the lack of women in STEM fields as a lack of "interest". 

So, I'll be the lone feminist here and say I welcome efforts to encourage women to enter the workforce in higher paying fields. I'm not sure regulating the pay gap is the solution, but I do think we have some work to do.

 



Edited by Stacers 2017-03-10 1:31 PM
2017-03-10 2:18 PM
in reply to: Stacers

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

Originally posted by Stacers

So, I'll be the lone feminist here and say I welcome efforts to encourage women to enter the workforce in higher paying fields. I'm not sure regulating the pay gap is the solution, but I do think we have some work to do.

I agree with your post and appreciate your perspective.  If the Day without Women, the feminist movement, or whatever promotes women being stronger negotiators for what they deserve, then you can consider me a feminist with you.  I have a lovely wife (that works with engineers) and two teenage daughters, so I have no reason to wish women to be paid less than men - when comparing the same job, time work hours, same education & experience.

After reading several pages of statistics on the BLM page, I'm encouraged that women have been making enormous gains in the last few decades.  When my girls were in elementary school, there were only three male teachers in 5 grade levels - 1 coach, 1 theater, and 1 third grade teacher.  Unfortunately, the third grade teacher switched from teaching to being in charge of IT/Audio-Visual (which likely came with a pay raise).  There are certain fields which are dominated by males and certain fields dominated by females - unfortunately, the female dominated field tend to be the lower paying fields (teachers, nail technicians, garment manufacturing, etc.).  I know so many young girls (and no boys) that want to be teachers - children look up to same gender role models.  Luckily, my girls have a a strong working mother, female pediatrician, and have friends with mothers that are engineers and attorneys.  My girls excel at math and science, but I fear that may change when they enter high school.  Not because they lack the ability, but because the social structure is such that they want to take classes with their friends as opposed to with annoying, nerd boys.     

I'm rambling like Rogillo now.  I agree that there is a slight wage gap and I believe that it is trending in the right direction.  I don't think pushing the 77 cents argument helps the situation and, IMHO, is used as a wedge issue to divide the masses as opposed to being constructive. 

 

2017-03-10 2:44 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

so hook'em, how would you approach the argument? Saying oh its not equal, with no numbers, is a great way to get ignored.  The reason the 77cents to the dollar argument is "pushed" is because its a simple quantifiable thing that gets people's attention.  Then they can learn about the issue and realize whats going on.

2017-03-10 3:06 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

Originally posted by dmiller5

so hook'em, how would you approach the argument? Saying oh its not equal, with no numbers, is a great way to get ignored.  The reason the 77cents to the dollar argument is "pushed" is because its a simple quantifiable thing that gets people's attention.  Then they can learn about the issue and realize whats going on.

That's a good question - which came to my mind when I made my earlier post.  The misleading 77cent argument gets attention, so I understand why it is used.  However, it is so easily refuted that the focus becomes refuting the 77cent argument as opposed to focusing on the issue of why any wage gap exists.  Once the wage gap is shown to be significantly less, all things being equal, much of the message is lost.  People that might be apoplectic about at 77cent figure might care very little about a few cents when taking all factors into account.   

For me, I want my girls to do whats best for them - which may be becoming an engineer or may be become a hairstylist.  I want them to know how not to be taken advantage of and how to negotiate for the best deal they can receive - which might be the highest salary and might be the job with the most flexibility and benefits.  IMHO, government intervention into the contract between them and their employer is not the solution.

2017-03-10 3:22 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

One trend that I find interesting is that of pay transparency (one of the factors I failed to list earlier when describing why certain companies score high on places people like to work).  Several companies have moved from hidden pay scales to published pay scales and even publishing individual salaries.  There have been many reports that the wage gap has decreased in those companies due, in large part, to the fact that salaries differences are no longer influenced by an individual's ability to negotiate.  While it might be an answer for some companies - it might not work for others.  The fact that private companies are proposing and implementing solutions to these problems is encouraging.  The fact that these changes are being done without governmental coercion is, in my mind, a positive factor of a market economy.  Should these strategies turn out to be instrumental in erasing the wage gap and employees choose employment with these companies as a result, other companies that are lose their labor force will take notice.  



2017-03-10 4:00 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
So .77 on the dollar is fake news, eh? Made up to get people's attention? Why not just use a real number?
2017-03-10 7:43 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Originally posted by Hook'em

Originally posted by Stacers

So, I'll be the lone feminist here and say I welcome efforts to encourage women to enter the workforce in higher paying fields. I'm not sure regulating the pay gap is the solution, but I do think we have some work to do.

I agree with your post and appreciate your perspective.  If the Day without Women, the feminist movement, or whatever promotes women being stronger negotiators for what they deserve, then you can consider me a feminist with you.  I have a lovely wife (that works with engineers) and two teenage daughters, so I have no reason to wish women to be paid less than men - when comparing the same job, time work hours, same education & experience.

After reading several pages of statistics on the BLM page, I'm encouraged that women have been making enormous gains in the last few decades.  When my girls were in elementary school, there were only three male teachers in 5 grade levels - 1 coach, 1 theater, and 1 third grade teacher.  Unfortunately, the third grade teacher switched from teaching to being in charge of IT/Audio-Visual (which likely came with a pay raise).  There are certain fields which are dominated by males and certain fields dominated by females - unfortunately, the female dominated field tend to be the lower paying fields (teachers, nail technicians, garment manufacturing, etc.).  I know so many young girls (and no boys) that want to be teachers - children look up to same gender role models.  Luckily, my girls have a a strong working mother, female pediatrician, and have friends with mothers that are engineers and attorneys.  My girls excel at math and science, but I fear that may change when they enter high school.  Not because they lack the ability, but because the social structure is such that they want to take classes with their friends as opposed to with annoying, nerd boys.     

I'm rambling like Rogillo now.  I agree that there is a slight wage gap and I believe that it is trending in the right direction.  I don't think pushing the 77 cents argument helps the situation and, IMHO, is used as a wedge issue to divide the masses as opposed to being constructive. 

 





Ramble? What the....I don't......ok, yeah i do tend to wander. LOL
2017-03-10 7:56 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Originally posted by Left Brain

So .77 on the dollar is fake news, eh? Made up to get people's attention? Why not just use a real number?



IDK if you were being rhetorical or not but I really would like to see real data. Someone posted about teachers and that is disturbing but can be corrected by local school boards. Companies like Boeing and Lockheed that have big pockets stand to loose hundreds of millions if they were to lose a class action suit so they bend over backwards to have equitable pay and promotion policies that are strictly followed. Same is true of the federal government employees.

I would love to see the real data comparing apples to apples in various fields. Compare female roughneck oil field workers to male roughnecks. Compare male and female doctors. Male and female firefighters. Male and female nurses. Prostitutes and gigilos. Etc.
2017-03-10 9:22 PM
in reply to: #5215502

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Women are held down. Its obvious. Vote democrat.
2017-03-10 9:22 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Companies like Boeing and Lockheed that have big pockets stand to loose hundreds of millions if they were to lose a class action suit so they bend over backwards to have equitable pay and promotion policies that are strictly followed.


Large companies would also be foolish not to hire large amounts of women if this were true. If they could hire women for 77% (or even 95%) of what they could get an equally qualified man, they would destroy the competition.



2017-03-10 9:33 PM
in reply to: #5215604

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
And they would IF this were true. Big $ is more important than keeping a person down because they have a vagina. The liberal narrative is dead.
2017-03-10 10:00 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap

Originally posted by Rogillio We all know the obvious reasons for the huge gap is because of the types of jobs men and women gravitate to. But, ceteris paribus or all things being equal there is a gap but it is much smaller. Here are a few reasons: 1. Women are willing to work for less and companies know this. So they low-ball them on the job offer and they accept. But if they low-ball men, they are more likely to not accept or counter-offer. 2. Men shamelessly toot their own horns! Good job on that proposal Mac! Thanks! I spent a lot of time on it including working nights and weekends. Good job on that proposal Mary! Oh, it was team effort. We all work on it together. 3. Men are more competitive and will do whatever it takes to claw their way to the top. 4. Men are usually not the primary car giver for children. Need somebody to work till midnight on something you are Mac is more likely to be available than Mary. 5. The men's club. Let's all meet at Kelly's bar after work and drink some beers. Who is in? Mac: I'm in! Mary: Sorry, I have to pick up the kids from day care and take them to dance class. 6. Networking. Company golf tournament this weekend. Who's in? Obviously there are exceptions to all of these but I believe them to be true 'in general'. Lots more reasons too. Men and woman are just different! Women have different talents and skill sets then men. And they'd look foolish at a BOGSA meeting smoking cigars and sipping brandy. Women were not created to do everything a man can do. They were created to do everything a man CAN'T do!

 

You had some good points, and I was cheering for you.....   Until the end religious patriarchy lingo, which is the problem.  I am amused that this is such a male dominated discussion, but this forums has become a bit of an echo chamber.

The scotch and cigars part is a great part of the many mining conferences/camps/rendezvous in which I participate.   And I assure you that I do not look foolish.

2017-03-10 11:19 PM
in reply to: bootygirl

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Originally posted by bootygirl

Originally posted by Rogillio We all know the obvious reasons for the huge gap is because of the types of jobs men and women gravitate to. But, ceteris paribus or all things being equal there is a gap but it is much smaller. Here are a few reasons: 1. Women are willing to work for less and companies know this. So they low-ball them on the job offer and they accept. But if they low-ball men, they are more likely to not accept or counter-offer. 2. Men shamelessly toot their own horns! Good job on that proposal Mac! Thanks! I spent a lot of time on it including working nights and weekends. Good job on that proposal Mary! Oh, it was team effort. We all work on it together. 3. Men are more competitive and will do whatever it takes to claw their way to the top. 4. Men are usually not the primary car giver for children. Need somebody to work till midnight on something you are Mac is more likely to be available than Mary. 5. The men's club. Let's all meet at Kelly's bar after work and drink some beers. Who is in? Mac: I'm in! Mary: Sorry, I have to pick up the kids from day care and take them to dance class. 6. Networking. Company golf tournament this weekend. Who's in? Obviously there are exceptions to all of these but I believe them to be true 'in general'. Lots more reasons too. Men and woman are just different! Women have different talents and skill sets then men. And they'd look foolish at a BOGSA meeting smoking cigars and sipping brandy. Women were not created to do everything a man can do. They were created to do everything a man CAN'T do!

 

You had some good points, and I was cheering for you.....   Until the end religious patriarchy lingo, which is the problem.  I am amused that this is such a male dominated discussion, but this forums has become a bit of an echo chamber.

The scotch and cigars part is a great part of the many mining conferences/camps/rendezvous in which I participate.   And I assure you that I do not look foolish.

You and Stacers are basically all we've got......if you don't pipe up it's just a bunch of idiots trying to one up each other's idiocy.  I think we're pretty damn good at it.

2017-03-11 6:56 AM
in reply to: bootygirl

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Subject: RE: Wage Gap
Originally posted by bootygirl

Originally posted by Rogillio We all know the obvious reasons for the huge gap is because of the types of jobs men and women gravitate to. But, ceteris paribus or all things being equal there is a gap but it is much smaller. Here are a few reasons: 1. Women are willing to work for less and companies know this. So they low-ball them on the job offer and they accept. But if they low-ball men, they are more likely to not accept or counter-offer. 2. Men shamelessly toot their own horns! Good job on that proposal Mac! Thanks! I spent a lot of time on it including working nights and weekends. Good job on that proposal Mary! Oh, it was team effort. We all work on it together. 3. Men are more competitive and will do whatever it takes to claw their way to the top. 4. Men are usually not the primary car giver for children. Need somebody to work till midnight on something you are Mac is more likely to be available than Mary. 5. The men's club. Let's all meet at Kelly's bar after work and drink some beers. Who is in? Mac: I'm in! Mary: Sorry, I have to pick up the kids from day care and take them to dance class. 6. Networking. Company golf tournament this weekend. Who's in? Obviously there are exceptions to all of these but I believe them to be true 'in general'. Lots more reasons too. Men and woman are just different! Women have different talents and skill sets then men. And they'd look foolish at a BOGSA meeting smoking cigars and sipping brandy. Women were not created to do everything a man can do. They were created to do everything a man CAN'T do!

 

You had some good points, and I was cheering for you.....   Until the end religious patriarchy lingo, which is the problem.  I am amused that this is such a male dominated discussion, but this forums has become a bit of an echo chamber.

The scotch and cigars part is a great part of the many mining conferences/camps/rendezvous in which I participate.   And I assure you that I do not look foolish.





I'm sorry you took offense at my religion and I am sure you don't look foolish at the scotch and cigar rituals. BOGSA is a 'bunch of old guys sitting around' and I'm sure they welcome you into their club but I bet you don't call yourself Bootygirl there. :-)

I don't think this forum is an echo chamber when I read the political threads. We have a right wingers and far left liberals and a few moderates...and about the only thing we agreed upon recently is pot.
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