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2017-06-26 5:19 PM
in reply to: TheCrownsOwn

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Not that I'm aware. Ive been told by two vets that they believe there is an issue with the source ingredients, not so much as where it's actually converted to dog food. Loads of interwebz speculation tho..


2017-06-26 10:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

I don't put much credence in what most Vets say (the dog and cat type)......my experience has been that much of their "science" is a money grab.  Most of the meds many vets give a dog, including puppy vaccinations, can easily be done at home for 10-25% of what they charge.  Heartworm medicine is another giant ripoff....you can get it at most feed stores for a fraction of the cost a vet charges. That's just a few examples.  Dog food is the same.......it's ridiculous what they "prescribe".  My dad raised dogs the same as I did for many years......nobody ever heard of "food allergies" back then for dogs.  Some of it is bad breeding over the years.....but a lot of it is just a big con to make a buck.  I trust very few Vets.....at least for dogs.  Horses and livestock is another story......most of those vets are worth their salt. Dogs and cats.....lots of unscrupulous azzhats. They know most people will pay huge sums for their pet's "health" and count on the fact that most  have very little knowledge.....even basic knowledge.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2017-06-26 10:05 PM
2017-06-27 8:11 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
We changed vets because our last one was pretty pricey. I wanted to change 15 years ago, but the wife liked him. Neither of the two vets I mentioned were hawking the expensive dog food they carried in their clinics, it was just an observation on their part once our dog was already terminal. We got referred to the second vet because vet #1 was closed on Saturday and we knew our poor girl was done and couldn't wait till Monday to get put down. She held the same opinion that you needed to be careful what foods you feed them. We really liked the second vet and have switched to using her with our new pup.
2017-06-27 8:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Elliot and I actually have the same environmental/seasonal allergies. When my allergies go haywire, his do too. He sneezes just like I do. His chin and paws get bright red; he licks his skin continuously. He responds well to Benadryl and Zyrtec.

With food, he throws up/has diarrhea or it presents on his skin (redness, brown skin). Fun! He doesn't puke up Fromm and his skin is clearer (when we aren't having pollen outbreaks).

The better food products source their meats in the US or Canada - that's why they cost more. Not using mostly fillers like corn or rice also costs more. Several years ago, you may remember, there was a rash of pet deaths around the country which was traced back to their food. It turns out the chicken was sourced from China where the slaughter houses threw whole chicken into the processing - guts and all.



Edited by Renee 2017-06-27 8:20 AM
2017-06-27 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Originally posted by mdg2003  She held the same opinion that you needed to be careful what foods you feed them.

I have a friend who is a university professor; her field is genetics and she specializes in cancer genetics. She told me that 60% of cancers are environmental and food related. What we eat matters to our health. Just as we will get sick if we were to eat the same mediocre ground food meal everyday for years, so too will our pets.

BTW, our vet carries only Science Diet products in their office. They are prescription foods, like the KD Diet that is made specifically for animals in renal distress.



Edited by Renee 2017-06-27 8:29 AM
2017-06-27 8:51 AM
in reply to: Renee

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Originally posted by Renee

Elliot and I actually have the same environmental/seasonal allergies. When my allergies go haywire, his do too. He sneezes just like I do. His chin and paws get bright red; he licks his skin continuously. He responds well to Benadryl and Zyrtec.

With food, he throws up/has diarrhea or it presents on his skin (redness, brown skin). Fun! He doesn't puke up Fromm and his skin is clearer (when we aren't having pollen outbreaks).

The better food products source their meats in the US or Canada - that's why they cost more. Not using mostly fillers like corn or rice also costs more. Several years ago, you may remember, there was a rash of pet deaths around the country which was traced back to their food. It turns out the chicken was sourced from China where the slaughter houses threw whole chicken into the processing - guts and all.

That was Diamond dog food (I'm pretty sure you are talking about the same incident).....I know the owners of that company.  Really good guys who made/make great dog food.  They believed they had a good source.  There are still companies that go outside the US for protein sources.



2017-06-27 8:57 AM
in reply to: Renee

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Couldn't agree more on the foods we eat and their importance in our overall health. I was struggling with nausea that was lasting most of the morning and sometimes into the early afternoon. went to a GI and they scoped and tested me; they found nothing. So I gave up processed foods and sugar on a whim. Guess what happened? 30 pounds came off and the nausea went away. Seems that high fructose corn syrup, white bread/flour and refined sugar were not my friend. It was amazing to note that after eating like this for about 6 weeks, I ate a hamburger with the bun. I literally felt like hammered crap for the rest of the day. Stands to reason that feeding our animals food that is mostly grain and meat by products will not be good for them either.
2017-06-27 9:07 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Originally posted by mdg2003 Couldn't agree more on the foods we eat and their importance in our overall health. I was struggling with nausea that was lasting most of the morning and sometimes into the early afternoon. went to a GI and they scoped and tested me; they found nothing. So I gave up processed foods and sugar on a whim. Guess what happened? 30 pounds came off and the nausea went away. Seems that high fructose corn syrup, white bread/flour and refined sugar were not my friend. It was amazing to note that after eating like this for about 6 weeks, I ate a hamburger with the bun. I literally felt like hammered crap for the rest of the day. Stands to reason that feeding our animals food that is mostly grain and meat by products will not be good for them either.

My kid just spent his first year away from home at college.  He gained about 20 lbs. over the course of his year even though he ran XC, indoor track, and outdoor track.....mostly a 50-60 mpw routine.  We raised our kids on no processed food. (or at least as very minimal as was practical).  He came home from school at 185 lbs and complained for the entire outdoor season that he just felt sluggish.  Within 3 weeks he was down to 165 again.  He didn't increase his mileage or any other outside influences.  He simply went back to the diet he was raised on.  He's been gone a month now training for his first triathlon Continental Cup race.  He is in an apartment where he now cooks most of his meals himself. (coached through it by his mom)  It has made a huge difference in his training and race times.  Food/fuel is everything.  We're pulling him from the dorm for next year.

2017-06-27 9:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Don't get me started on college mess halls! My poor daughter comes home to eat at least twice a week the food is so bad. Luckily we're only 20 minutes down the road. We'd keep her at home except her school requires them to stay at the dorms till senior year. They call that weight gain, the 'freshman fifteen' at her school!

I really never gave my diet much thought and maintained weight through exercise. I've had a pretty bad stretch of injuries that have prevented me from riding so my weight gradually crept up until I was nearing 230. I'd done all the rehab and per my doc, if I didn't reinjure my back for a year, I was good to go for life. The one year mark hit last month and I'm ready to dust of my trusty Orbea, when lo and behold I fall out of an airplane at work and land on my head and neck. As it stands , my aero days are done. Hopefully I'll be able to ride a roadie and gradually fade away!

Edited by mdg2003 2017-06-27 9:48 AM
2017-06-27 9:52 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

We're pretty confident it's the salt  from the processed food that has him holding weight during the college seasons.  The problem is circular.  He's starving from all the running so he eats more. The more he eats the more salt he's getting.  The food is bad enough that his college running represents about 25% more miles than his longest training week in high school, and he steadily gained weight.  Got home and ate no processed food and the weight just fell off of him....WHILE HE TOOK A 2 WEEK BREAK FROM RUNNING.

2017-08-28 7:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Originally posted by Left Brain

I don't put much credence in what most Vets say (the dog and cat type)......my experience has been that much of their "science" is a money grab.  Most of the meds many vets give a dog, including puppy vaccinations, can easily be done at home for 10-25% of what they charge.  Heartworm medicine is another giant ripoff....you can get it at most feed stores for a fraction of the cost a vet charges. That's just a few examples.  Dog food is the same.......it's ridiculous what they "prescribe".  My dad raised dogs the same as I did for many years......nobody ever heard of "food allergies" back then for dogs.  Some of it is bad breeding over the years.....but a lot of it is just a big con to make a buck.  I trust very few Vets.....at least for dogs.  Horses and livestock is another story......most of those vets are worth their salt. Dogs and cats.....lots of unscrupulous azzhats. They know most people will pay huge sums for their pet's "health" and count on the fact that most  have very little knowledge.....even basic knowledge.

 




DUDE! Very nice!

You got me.....my goal is to run as many unnecessary tests as possible and to invoice as much as humanly possible so I bankrupt people and put them out on the street (gotta pay for my Ferrari and world cruises!), I'm a master at unethical practice and fraud, and I make unnecessary medical recommendations on a daily basis using my remedial, at best, medical knowledge. I work in the ER (giving up most nights, weekends, and holidays to "help" people and pets, but mostly I'm there to take advantage of them!

I had to find some humor in your comments !!

Every situation is different and everyone is entitled to choose the food, type of pet care, and veterinary practice that fits with their goals.

Regarding food, there are endless opinions and strong feelings (and tons of internet bunk). I keep it simple.... feed whatever food you want, that you can afford, that your dog enjoys and tolerates without health issues, and that makes acceptable poop! The food that "works" will be different for every person and dog!

Edited by SpottedCow 2017-08-28 7:59 PM


2017-08-29 12:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Originally posted by SpottedCow
Originally posted by Left Brain

I don't put much credence in what most Vets say (the dog and cat type)......my experience has been that much of their "science" is a money grab.  Most of the meds many vets give a dog, including puppy vaccinations, can easily be done at home for 10-25% of what they charge.  Heartworm medicine is another giant ripoff....you can get it at most feed stores for a fraction of the cost a vet charges. That's just a few examples.  Dog food is the same.......it's ridiculous what they "prescribe".  My dad raised dogs the same as I did for many years......nobody ever heard of "food allergies" back then for dogs.  Some of it is bad breeding over the years.....but a lot of it is just a big con to make a buck.  I trust very few Vets.....at least for dogs.  Horses and livestock is another story......most of those vets are worth their salt. Dogs and cats.....lots of unscrupulous azzhats. They know most people will pay huge sums for their pet's "health" and count on the fact that most  have very little knowledge.....even basic knowledge.

 

DUDE! Very nice! You got me.....my goal is to run as many unnecessary tests as possible and to invoice as much as humanly possible so I bankrupt people and put them out on the street (gotta pay for my Ferrari and world cruises!), I'm a master at unethical practice and fraud, and I make unnecessary medical recommendations on a daily basis using my remedial, at best, medical knowledge. I work in the ER (giving up most nights, weekends, and holidays to "help" people and pets, but mostly I'm there to take advantage of them! I had to find some humor in your comments !! Every situation is different and everyone is entitled to choose the food, type of pet care, and veterinary practice that fits with their goals. Regarding food, there are endless opinions and strong feelings (and tons of internet bunk). I keep it simple.... feed whatever food you want, that you can afford, that your dog enjoys and tolerates without health issues, and that makes acceptable poop! The food that "works" will be different for every person and dog!

DUDE!!!  It's a dog!!!  It's not rocket science and I know somebody has to be there to save most of fido's owners from themselves and I don't begrudge what you do. If you make people happy with their dogs then I'm all for it.

I don't know what I'd do without a dog in my life and I've had some great ones, some goods ones, and a few that were neither.  I don't own pets, I own working dogs....the ones that live for what they were bred to do.  They sleep in our beds, lay on our couch, go where we go, but at the end of the day they retrieve, or point, or guard. 

In those 4 decades of owning dogs I've seen some damn unscrupulous "vets".....and some damn unscrupulous vet trends.  Heartworm medicine is one of them....it's REALLY cheap, and I probably have enough to last a lifetime of dogs their lifetime, which I bought for what most people pay for a years supply from their friendly vet.   Puppy shots.....geez, that's hard, and I can vaccinate an entire litter for what some vets will charge for a single puppy. (don't get me started on what vets watched breeders do to some breeds over the years.....nice job with Goldens, German Shepherds, etc.)  "Science" food is another bunch of garbage IMO.....oh and thanks for charging to clean a dog's ears....who knew? /sarc  No DUDE.....when I hear someone talk about walking out of the vets office for their dog's "yearly" with a bill measured in the multiple hundreds I just shake my head.

And you're right......lucky for some vets, everyone is entitled to choose the type of veterinary practice that fits their goals.  (my wife pays for massages and aroma therapy for her horse LMAO ) My favorite vets are the ones who will charge $5-10,000, or much more, for a surgery on a 12-15 year old dog to get them another year of misery so their owners can pay up and feel like they did all they could.....way to go Doctors!

Sorry man.....I've been down the (dog and cat) "vet" road a few times and haven't been impressed overall.  People probably say the same about my work.....I don't get worked up over it.  Maybe you're one of them that I'd trust every dog I ever owned to, knowing you'd never try to take advantage of how I feel about them. (in fact, I hope you are)...but you'd be one of a great minority as far as I'm concerned..



Edited by Left Brain 2017-08-29 12:33 AM
2017-08-30 7:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Sorry that you had to put your dog down. We had to put two down in the last two years due to liver cancer in both of them. Its the worst decision I have ever had to make and it breaks my heart every time I think about it. But we now have these two little rascals, Finley and Tullamore. They get fed Health Extension, which is also grain free. For the record, my company makes Tullamore Dew Irish Whisky. My wife wanted to name him Jamesion, but Tullamore pays the bills, so Tullamore it is!

Edited by hessma 2017-08-30 7:23 PM




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2017-08-30 9:47 PM
in reply to: hessma

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

There is almost nothing harder than putting a good dog down, but ending their suffering is something we can do for them that we can't do for each other......and it's almost always the right choice, as horribly hard as it is.

On the other hand, there is almost nothing better than a new puppy, and the new journey that comes with them. 

A life without a dog isn't much of a life in my book.

Enjoy hessma!! 

2017-08-31 8:39 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Those are some good looking dogs Hessma. I imagine they keep you guys on your toes!

Yeah LB, nothing like a new pup and the journey associated with raising them. Ours was 6-7 months we when got her so we missed a lot of it, but she's turning out OK so far. A few instances where I wanted to whack her with a shoe, but overall she's pretty well mannered. I let her lick her first ice cream bowl the other day. That was almost as funny as when I gave my daughter her first taste of ice cream. The get that stunned look and then "bazinga", next thing they're on top of you trying to get more! Now when she hears a spoon click on the bowl while I'm watching TV, she's there in a flash.
2017-08-31 11:33 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
So ya...there's lots of internet "lore" about food and cancer...but nothing concrete. No evidence or study. This doesnt negate proper nutrition, etc....but this is a whole thread on a topic that may or may not even be real...lol.

Perhaps a bit off topic...

https://ebvma.org

Apparently quack medicine and pseudo science including "natural" and "organic" marketing strategies have infected the animal world as well.


Buyer beware.


2017-08-31 1:52 PM
in reply to: TheCrownsOwn

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn

So ya...there's lots of internet "lore" about food and cancer...but nothing concrete. No evidence or study. This doesnt negate proper nutrition, etc....but this is a whole thread on a topic that may or may not even be real...lol.

Perhaps a bit off topic...

https://ebvma.org

Apparently quack medicine and pseudo science including "natural" and "organic" marketing strategies have infected the animal world as well.


Buyer beware.


So I may or may not be involved in a thread, that may or may not be real... Oh my.\!
2017-08-31 3:08 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets

Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn So ya...there's lots of internet "lore" about food and cancer...but nothing concrete. No evidence or study. This doesnt negate proper nutrition, etc....but this is a whole thread on a topic that may or may not even be real...lol. Perhaps a bit off topic... https://ebvma.orgApparently quack medicine and pseudo science including "natural" and "organic" marketing strategies have infected the animal world as well. Buyer beware.
So I may or may not be involved in a thread, that may or may not be real... Oh my.\!

Remember FDR's words....."the only thing too real is real itself"

2017-08-31 10:14 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Dog food and cancer in pets
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by TheCrownsOwn So ya...there's lots of internet "lore" about food and cancer...but nothing concrete. No evidence or study. This doesnt negate proper nutrition, etc....but this is a whole thread on a topic that may or may not even be real...lol. Perhaps a bit off topic... https://ebvma.orgApparently quack medicine and pseudo science including "natural" and "organic" marketing strategies have infected the animal world as well. Buyer beware.
So I may or may not be involved in a thread, that may or may not be real... Oh my.\!

Remember FDR's words....."the only thing too real is real itself"



Reality itself scares me.
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