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2017-08-14 12:38 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by Oysterboy "because it's a forking scary damn place and they worked their arses off against all odds just to get the hell out.!" Bingo.

But that doesn't mean they won't come back.  Everyone wants to be able to go home, even if they can't......and in speaking to those who have made it out, I know that most of them want to give something back to help others.  There IS a desire within these communities to help themselves, but they can't do it without outside support......they just don't have the means.  We can, of course, do nothing.....and it will cost us far more before it's over.



2017-08-15 8:43 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Left Brain

If I were King I'd rebuild schools in poor neighborhoods, and not in some half-assed way......I'd make them gems.......we have let them turn to chit, or in many cases, become non-existent....the neighborhoods are a reflection of that.  If you want to talk about pride, let's talk about what happens when there is a complete lack of anything to be proud of, and care for, and nourish......that's what you're seeing IMO. 

Hasn't worked, and won't work until the residents of the neighborhood take ownership of what they have.  Until then, that "gem" just becomes a target of destruction.  Holds for both the physical assets as well as the time/emotional investment of education.  

It's not been tried.....at least not here in St. Louis, but I did get to witness the utter destruction of black neighborhoods when busing was forced upon them and their schools were allowed to deteriorate.  Those schools were part of the Public High League here, the most feared HS league in the state.  Those teams, and schools, were an absolute source of pride for those neighborhoods and was the glue that held them together.  When the students of those schools, and the athletes, were bused out to the suburban (and wealthier) schools, it spelled the end.

I don't know how it is where you are (I can't imagine it's different anywhere), but here, property values track right along with the best school districts.  And again, that's only one benefit........these neighborhoods and the residents (read children) that live there need a reset.....and chance to build pride in their community.  Certainly there are other components......grocery stores, jobs, etc....but it starts with good schools and good education.

NO....it has NOT been tried here, and I doubt it's been tried, to much degree, anywhere.  The cost is prohibitive and would require that money currently used to fund many "entitlement" programs be moved toward this endeavor. 

I worked these neighborhoods.....the people there WILL take ownership of something they can be proud of.....because they don't have anything else.

I spent 15 years living in Peoria, IL in a city neighborhood South of the 2 "boundaries" people said don't live South of (there was still 1 to go).  I've seen brand new playground equipment vandalized within weeks of installation.  Why?  because too many people in those neighborhoods didn't value what was being provided.  To them, it would be replaced again after it was destroyed.  This was during a period when one of the disadvantaged high schools (Manual) one 4 BB championships in a row and a year or two later, the other (Peoria) one two.  

2017-08-15 9:07 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Left Brain

If I were King I'd rebuild schools in poor neighborhoods, and not in some half-assed way......I'd make them gems.......we have let them turn to chit, or in many cases, become non-existent....the neighborhoods are a reflection of that.  If you want to talk about pride, let's talk about what happens when there is a complete lack of anything to be proud of, and care for, and nourish......that's what you're seeing IMO. 

Hasn't worked, and won't work until the residents of the neighborhood take ownership of what they have.  Until then, that "gem" just becomes a target of destruction.  Holds for both the physical assets as well as the time/emotional investment of education.  

It's not been tried.....at least not here in St. Louis, but I did get to witness the utter destruction of black neighborhoods when busing was forced upon them and their schools were allowed to deteriorate.  Those schools were part of the Public High League here, the most feared HS league in the state.  Those teams, and schools, were an absolute source of pride for those neighborhoods and was the glue that held them together.  When the students of those schools, and the athletes, were bused out to the suburban (and wealthier) schools, it spelled the end.

I don't know how it is where you are (I can't imagine it's different anywhere), but here, property values track right along with the best school districts.  And again, that's only one benefit........these neighborhoods and the residents (read children) that live there need a reset.....and chance to build pride in their community.  Certainly there are other components......grocery stores, jobs, etc....but it starts with good schools and good education.

NO....it has NOT been tried here, and I doubt it's been tried, to much degree, anywhere.  The cost is prohibitive and would require that money currently used to fund many "entitlement" programs be moved toward this endeavor. 

I worked these neighborhoods.....the people there WILL take ownership of something they can be proud of.....because they don't have anything else.

I spent 15 years living in Peoria, IL in a city neighborhood South of the 2 "boundaries" people said don't live South of (there was still 1 to go).  I've seen brand new playground equipment vandalized within weeks of installation.  Why?  because too many people in those neighborhoods didn't value what was being provided.  To them, it would be replaced again after it was destroyed.  This was during a period when one of the disadvantaged high schools (Manual) one 4 BB championships in a row and a year or two later, the other (Peoria) one two.  

Vandalism is never a reason not to do something IMO.  We built a $1,000,000 park in the middle of a public housing area.  The equipment and buildings were vandalized (graffiti, broken windows, torn down basketball nets, etc.. etc. ) nearly every weekend for about 6 months or so.  Every Monday we fixed it or painted over the graffiti....EVERY DAMN TIME.  After awhile, people in the neighborhood started calling us when they witnessed something.....it was mostly kids and our court made them help fix and paint when something got broken/vandalized.  Now, 6 years later, I can't remember the last time it was vandalized. 

I don't mind being told that there's a problem.  I won't be told there is not a solution.  We can help fix our poor, crime ridden, neighborhoods.....but it's going to take education, time, and money.  We're going to pay for those crime ridden neighborhoods one way or another.....believe it.....we just have to decide how we want to pay.

Obviously, I'm no bleeding heart.....but I know this without a doubt.....those neighborhoods are FILLED with people who are tired of living in fear and want to make a better life for themselves......fantastic, caring people.....like most people everywhere.  They need help figuring out how to do that.  We are now a couple of generations deep in people who never learned how.....nobody taught them or gave them a reason to believe they could have that. Blame failed liberal entitlements, uncaring conservatives....whatever.....what the hell difference does it make how we got here?  If we don't fix it, we'll eventually lose our society....cities first.

2017-08-15 11:57 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
Originally posted by dmiller5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

 





http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/nyt-defends-using-white-nationali...


To me, white nationalist suggests a nationalist who is white. Evidently to some, it means people who believe the US should be totally white....

Edited by Rogillio 2017-08-15 12:00 PM
2017-08-15 7:06 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
Ya know, it just ain't that hard. Politicians condemn hate groups such as neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK, white supremacists, people who march with torches chanting Blood and Soil. No equivalency, no hesitation. Period.
2017-08-15 7:54 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
I agree with many of the opinions stated here.
First, there is no cause I believe in strongly enough to spend my weekends protesting.
Second, I agree with the President that both sides are at fault. Neo Nazi's for just being plain fools and the counter protesters who are just asking for a fight from folks who really want a fight.
Third, there was a time when Neo nazi's/skinheads or whatever they were called were looked at as fringe groups who were "outsiders" most people ignored. Now, they are treated as mainstream and accuse the president of essentially being on.
Fourth, the constant media bashsing of Trump does nothing to calm the unrest, which is what the media desires. Then they can paint Trump as a divider, an agitator, a racist, all in the hopes of driving Democrats in the next election cycle.
Last, free speech is on a slippery slope here. I have recently read many articles of outrage because China is limiting internet access to certain sites. Today I read that Google is banning sites based on content they disagree with. How is that different than what China is doing? Who decides what content is acceptable?


2017-08-15 9:58 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
Originally posted by OysterboyYa know, it just ain't that hard. Politicians condemn hate groups such as neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK, white supremacists, people who march with torches chanting Blood and Soil. No equivalency, no hesitation. Period.
What about people who March chanting, "what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now".....is that the same or nah. If not, when did President Obama condemn that? In fact, when did any liberal politician condemn that? Did Maxine Waters? The point can be made for hatred from fringe groups on both sides.....the same point can be made that politicians pick and choose which hate speech to condemn....as it can be made for violence from both sides. We might as well move on to the next point because that one seems to be a lost cause these days.....it's a draw.
2017-08-15 10:18 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
If you really want to feel lost, go to the CNN and then to the FOX websites......we all apparently live together on alternate universes. LMAO
2017-08-16 5:55 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
Originally posted by Left Brain

If you really want to feel lost, go to the CNN and then to the FOX websites......we all apparently live together on alternate universes. LMAO


You could not be more accurate in saying that!
2017-08-16 6:12 AM
in reply to: hessma

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
The other thing that is interesting is if I think that both sides are at fault, that means I support white supremacists. I am not sure how/why it is mutually exclusive to the discussion. I am logical enough to see that 1) White Supremacists have no place in society and 2) they are also free to march. I am also logical enough to see that 1) People are free to counter march and 2) if the objective is to "stop the other march" then bad things are cooking.

Again, this is now a media driven frenzy and another opportunity for the media to push an agenda
2017-08-16 6:14 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by OysterboyYa know, it just ain't that hard. Politicians condemn hate groups such as neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK, white supremacists, people who march with torches chanting Blood and Soil. No equivalency, no hesitation. Period.
What about people who March chanting, "what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now".....is that the same or nah.


Yes, this is to be condemned as well and the failure of Obama to call out that thinking for the hate it is was wrong.


2017-08-16 7:20 AM
in reply to: #5226136

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest
OB - that's the point isn't it? If it should have been condemned but wasn't that give that group power and incentive to keep going.

Let's face it if the Antifa did not show up on Saturday looking for a fight, there is really no news here other than some morons with shaved heads and wearing silly sheets over themselves walking around.
2017-08-16 7:33 AM
in reply to: hessma

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by hessma OB - that's the point isn't it? If it should have been condemned but wasn't that give that group power and incentive to keep going. Let's face it if the Antifa did not show up on Saturday looking for a fight, there is really no news here other than some morons with shaved heads and wearing silly sheets over themselves walking around.

And if she hadn't worn that short skirt and low top she wouldn't have gotten raped. 

2017-08-16 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by hessma OB - that's the point isn't it? If it should have been condemned but wasn't that give that group power and incentive to keep going. Let's face it if the Antifa did not show up on Saturday looking for a fight, there is really no news here other than some morons with shaved heads and wearing silly sheets over themselves walking around.

And if she hadn't worn that short skirt and low top she wouldn't have gotten raped. 

Except that she paraded around in a short skirt and low top all night Friday, carrying a torch, and nobody got raped. (I REALLY don't like your analogy BTW....the two are not connected in any way)

Look, I see what happened down there as a failure of Law Enforcement.  I was watching Antifa and BLM twitter accounts Friday night and from 1500 miles away I said, "tomorrow is going to be a problem for the cops down there" because the radicals had a call to arms to stop the Nazi march.....except the cops basically never showed up and the left radicals did.  This is really simple stuff.....if you let the KKK and Antifa come together it's going to explode.  To let that happen is a shame......to not intervene is something worse than a shame.  I'd like to know who stood the cops down and who is pulling all the strings for this crap, because, just like here on this board, rational people seem to have no problem talking about it and working through it......somebody, or some entity, REALLY enjoys and hopes to profit from all of this. (that pains me to say because I hate conspiracy theories)

OB - thanks for also denouncing the BLM chants during the last administration....fair enough.  I doubt we're very far apart on this but if we all, collectively, keep letting the fringe carry the narrative we risk having to choose sides apart from our shared humanity......and from there it's a spiral toward a very bad place.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-08-16 9:06 AM
2017-08-16 8:52 AM
in reply to: hessma

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Subject: RE: Charlottesville protest

Originally posted by hessma The other thing that is interesting is if I think that both sides are at fault, that means I support white supremacists. I am not sure how/why it is mutually exclusive to the discussion. I am logical enough to see that 1) White Supremacists have no place in society and 2) they are also free to march. I am also logical enough to see that 1) People are free to counter march and 2) if the objective is to "stop the other march" then bad things are cooking. Again, this is now a media driven frenzy and another opportunity for the media to push an agenda

Great post......spot on!

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