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2017-09-11 7:13 PM


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Subject: Experience after trading up bikes
I have a pretty vanilla sub 1k aluminum Trek road bike (I think it's a 1.2 that's a few years old), which is my racing bike, although if I go to a far away race (like a different continent) I usually just see fit to rent a local bike that's pretty much along the same lines as mine. My general feeling has been that if I want to improve my time there's much, much more value to working on my physical condition than a fancy bike. And I'd rather spend the money on actually doing a tri than having the coolest bike.

That said: Has anyone raced Ironman distances with something like mine and then traded up to a a nice tri bike? I'm just curious about how much you think the better equipment helped.

Thanks!


2017-09-11 9:24 PM
in reply to: d.rock90

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
If I spend a considerable amount of money on a new component, I will go faster. Psychologically I cannot let it be any other way.
2017-09-11 11:20 PM
in reply to: d.rock90

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
It's been fairly well documented you will see somewhere around a 1-2 mph increase in speed going from riding a drop bar road bike to a triathlon/TT bike, assuming you can stay on the aero bars. My experience has been right in that middle of that range. I have a road bike similar to yours and a late model Orbea Ordu. On all of the training routes where I have multiple attempts in each of the bikes, my best pace on the Ordu is 1.2-1.6 mph faster.
2017-09-12 8:25 PM
in reply to: d.rock90

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
So often a trade up is accompanied by improvements in training/fitness.

So hard to put an exact figure. Bike fit and aerodynamics play a role too.
2017-09-12 9:35 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by simpsonbo

So often a trade up is accompanied by improvements in training/fitness.



Maybe, but just as often it's not a trade-up, but an "n+1" situation. I still have the road bike. Outside, I still ride it more often than the tri-bike. Any improvements in training/fitness apply to my PR's on both bikes. And, for every circuit where I've ridden both bikes several times, my PR is on the tri bike.


So hard to put an exact figure. Bike fit and aerodynamics play a role too.


Bike aerodynamics play a surprisingly small part in the overall system aero drag. Body position, and the resulting frontal area, is the biggest key. I will agree that a good fit on a tri bike will optimize the compromise of reduced frontal area and comfort. (It's great to be aero, buy you have to be in a position comfortable enough that you can maintain it, and make consistent powerm through the duration of a ride). That said, it would be pretty hard to go from a beginner road bike with drop bars (no clip ons) to a triathlon bike and not reduce your drag profile enough to see at least a 5% increase in speed. Impossible? No. Improbable? Yes.
2017-09-14 9:04 AM
in reply to: gary p

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
I went from an entry level road bike with clip-ons, to a (much older) carbon tri bike. Although I was professionally fit on both bikes, for me the comfort on the tri-bike was insanely better. I spent most of my time on the aero-bars on the road bike, so going to a TT was not a big change. However, I really do feel more comfortable and it does weigh significantly less.

So, for what it's worth.... going to a TT bike was a big bump for me. Running after getting off the TT was just way more comfortable.

--
Dave


2017-09-20 4:56 PM
in reply to: gary p

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by gary p

It's been fairly well documented you will see somewhere around a 1-2 mph increase in speed going from riding a drop bar road bike to a triathlon/TT bike, assuming you can stay on the aero bars. My experience has been right in that middle of that range. I have a road bike similar to yours and a late model Orbea Ordu. On all of the training routes where I have multiple attempts in each of the bikes, my best pace on the Ordu is 1.2-1.6 mph faster.


For me about 2 mph @ 20 mph gain going from a pretty good road bike (Willier Grand Turismo) to Cervelo P3. The Gran Turismo ** has ** Profile Design clip ons with adjusted geometry of seat, stem etc. to match my Retul fit as much as possible. Handlebars however is standard road and sub-optimal drag-wise. The more the headwind, the easer the effort on the P3 at speed compared to the GT.

Having said that, the Willier is a much more comfortable ride any day of the week. I always wonder if that comfort is worth it for long races, but always end up going with the P3.
2017-09-20 8:07 PM
in reply to: d.rock90


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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Yes, I'd imagine there would be a considerable uptick from a Trek 1.2 to even the lowest cost Speed Concept. Especially over the course of a 100+ mile ride. Lots of minutes saved.
2017-09-21 12:42 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo


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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by simpsonbo

So often a trade up is accompanied by improvements in training/fitness.

So hard to put an exact figure. Bike fit and aerodynamics play a role too.


I totally bought into that, until very recently.
Right, people throw out that 1-2 mph "in general, all things considered, reservations, outliers etc. etc." quite often for the road to tri bike upgrade.
While I don't necessarily believe "internet stuff" and what people say in microcosm "on the internet"....I do also believe in the wisdom of the crowd.

I've had a tri bike (lower mid range) with some Flos...for 2 summers now. I'm going with that 1-2 mph.

Only because I recently had mechanical issue on my tri bike 10 miles into a ride I do A LOT.
Bad enough that I had to have my wife rescue me and haul me home. Only to jump on my road bike (mid-range) to finish out the balance of that 80 miles. Only ridden the road bike in any significance once in 2 years and that was 8 weeks ago on a completely foreign ride.

The juxtaposition of the two was evident. I felt almost 'sluggish' comparatively on my road bike. And glancing down at my watch in several areas where I kinda know how fast I'll go....I was 1-2 mph slower. And at the end of the day, the comprehensive data backed that up.

Again, not tons of data, obviously. But some. And, yeah...I was kinda grumpy at first at losing 45 minutes of my day (all my snacks were on the other bike)...and any other number of variable factors could have contributed. But throwing in the fact that I kept sort of "noticing" it and immediately checking my watch to see if I was actually going slower and seeing it periodically over 70 miles, I think there's some definite truth to it.

And of course, it could be confirmation bias. Or "justification bias" of having spent more money.

But, I'm going with "yeah, there's very good circumstantial evidence to back up a bump". And for me, 1-1.75 mph passes my sniff test.
2017-09-21 1:29 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by jhaack39

Originally posted by simpsonbo

So often a trade up is accompanied by improvements in training/fitness.

So hard to put an exact figure. Bike fit and aerodynamics play a role too.


I totally bought into that, until very recently.
Right, people throw out that 1-2 mph "in general, all things considered, reservations, outliers etc. etc." quite often for the road to tri bike upgrade.
While I don't necessarily believe "internet stuff" and what people say in microcosm "on the internet"....I do also believe in the wisdom of the crowd.

I've had a tri bike (lower mid range) with some Flos...for 2 summers now. I'm going with that 1-2 mph.

Only because I recently had mechanical issue on my tri bike 10 miles into a ride I do A LOT.
Bad enough that I had to have my wife rescue me and haul me home. Only to jump on my road bike (mid-range) to finish out the balance of that 80 miles. Only ridden the road bike in any significance once in 2 years and that was 8 weeks ago on a completely foreign ride.

The juxtaposition of the two was evident. I felt almost 'sluggish' comparatively on my road bike. And glancing down at my watch in several areas where I kinda know how fast I'll go....I was 1-2 mph slower. And at the end of the day, the comprehensive data backed that up.

Again, not tons of data, obviously. But some. And, yeah...I was kinda grumpy at first at losing 45 minutes of my day (all my snacks were on the other bike)...and any other number of variable factors could have contributed. But throwing in the fact that I kept sort of "noticing" it and immediately checking my watch to see if I was actually going slower and seeing it periodically over 70 miles, I think there's some definite truth to it.

And of course, it could be confirmation bias. Or "justification bias" of having spent more money.

But, I'm going with "yeah, there's very good circumstantial evidence to back up a bump". And for me, 1-1.75 mph passes my sniff test.



I don't think I've ever seen bias saying a road bike setup was faster. Even in TDF, for the individual trials, you just don't see anyone going with road bikes. Period.
2017-09-21 1:42 PM
in reply to: FranzZemen


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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by FranzZemen
I don't think I've ever seen bias saying a road bike setup was faster. Even in TDF, for the individual trials, you just don't see anyone going with road bikes. Period.


I'm betting they have crudloads of much more usable/tangible data too.
That's beyond wisdom of the crowd. Let alone wisdom of what you read on the interwebz. That's wisdom of people spending lots of money in some cases to rely on data, not just wisdom.

And while I don't subscribe to "if it's good enough for the pros....."....
They're doing it for a reason. Maybe I can catch a little of that too. Probably not even remotely close to the same degree, but some.



2017-09-22 4:03 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Experience after trading up bikes
Originally posted by jhaack39

Originally posted by FranzZemen
I don't think I've ever seen bias saying a road bike setup was faster. Even in TDF, for the individual trials, you just don't see anyone going with road bikes. Period.


I'm betting they have crudloads of much more usable/tangible data too.
That's beyond wisdom of the crowd. Let alone wisdom of what you read on the interwebz. That's wisdom of people spending lots of money in some cases to rely on data, not just wisdom.

And while I don't subscribe to "if it's good enough for the pros....."....
They're doing it for a reason. Maybe I can catch a little of that too. Probably not even remotely close to the same degree, but some.




Wednesday we did some testing at the Velodrome.

Same helmet/clothes but comparing road bike in the drops vs good tri bike with a good but not super aggressive position.

1.8mph faster at 200watts.

And BTW, you would be amazed at some of the poor decisions pro tour teams make. I spent some time with one team this summer and most riders have been on other teams so I got to hear several "horror" stories from other teams. So don't trust everything you see and hear.
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