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2017-10-10 7:54 AM

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Subject: Marathon training
Sorry this isn't triathlon related. I finished my tri season which included my first HIM. I was running 4 x a week during training following a 22 week marathon plan for run workouts. I started several weeks in and adjusted the long run (added miles) to were my current fitness was. I have now ran greater than 13.1 miles on my long day for 9 of 10 weeks. I've done 2 16 mile runs and an 18. Runs over 15 are really tough. I fell there are a number of distance plateaus but i can't get past this one (yet). Is this the way im supposed to feel at this point? Is this thw way others have felt? Or is this more related to combining tri and marathon training and an overall low weekly mileage. I have moved from 4 runs to 5 now that tri is done. May need to adjust expectations...


2017-10-10 11:05 AM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Marathon training
Hi, Nate!

As you indicated, sustained weekly running volume over time will help. Also make sure you are slowing your pace down appropriately and staying hydrated on your weekly long run. What type of weekly volume are you doing now? What are the details on those 5 runs (distance, pace)? That may give some more insight. Enjoy the training and the race!
2017-10-10 10:08 PM
in reply to: #5229469

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Subject: RE: Marathon training
For the bulk my my training it was bike Monday, intervals Tuesday, bike wednesday, run easy thursday and friday, swim sat, and long run on Sunday. I run with water/Gatorade and take gu every 5 miles. 28 to 38 miles per week. With 22 on my taper, race, and recovery week from my HIM. My 5 day plan will be off on Monday and thurs, with intervals on tues and tempo on Friday.
2017-10-10 10:13 PM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Marathon training

Originally posted by nrpoulin Sorry this isn't triathlon related. I finished my tri season which included my first HIM. I was running 4 x a week during training following a 22 week marathon plan for run workouts. I started several weeks in and adjusted the long run (added miles) to were my current fitness was. I have now ran greater than 13.1 miles on my long day for 9 of 10 weeks. I've done 2 16 mile runs and an 18. Runs over 15 are really tough. I fell there are a number of distance plateaus but i can't get past this one (yet). Is this the way im supposed to feel at this point? Is this thw way others have felt? Or is this more related to combining tri and marathon training and an overall low weekly mileage. I have moved from 4 runs to 5 now that tri is done. May need to adjust expectations...

 

If I understand correctly you are 10 weeks into a 22 weeks Marathon Running plan but you started several weeks into the 22 week running plan so even though you are 10 weeks into the plan you are probably flowing the work outs for about week 15.  Is that correct?

1) first off, you shouldn't need to add miles to a marathon plan.  They always feel too easy when you start off, but they build each week and so by the time you are 10 weeks into them they are really pushing you.  If you start of doing to much as the volume increases and you accumulate fatigue you are going to feel weak, exhausted, or fatigued.  So you may have to scale things back rather than increasing at week 10 if you started with too much volume.

 

2) Second,  You learn a lot about your body's energy systems doing endurance training and events.  It has been about 25 years since I took AP Biology but I remember there is an Alcohol cycle, a lactate cycle, the Krebs cycle, etc.  Each cycle can fuel the body for a different amount of time them you run out of energy and the body must switch gear into another energy cycle. Glycogen is the main thing that fuels running.  Most people can store enough glycogen to fuel running for about 2-2-1/2 hours.  Then it is depleted and the body reaches a limit called the runner's wall.  If you are doing a good job or refueling during a run (i.e. that is what those Gu packs are for) then it will take about 10 minutes of feeling really lousy as your switch from the stored glycogen in your liver to the glycogen that goes into your blood stream from your refueling.  There is no easy way around this.  The more experience you have the easier the transition goes.  It is like learning to run off the bike.  The first time you jump off the bike and start to run you legs feel like jello and it is about all you can do to keep from falling flat on your face, but after practicing it a half dozen times you body learns how to make the transition and you can run just fine off the bike.  It is the same way with the runners wall.  The first time you hit it is about all you can do to keep from falling flat on yur face.  The more times you do it the better you body makes the transition.  On of my Marathon buddies told me it was about his 10th marathon before he could run the whole race.  his first 9 marathons when he hit the wall it required him to slow way down and really effect his race.  After about 10 marathons he could run the whole race at an even pace.  So practice refueling on those long runs.  You are probably burning 1000 calories an hour.  Working on getting that much back into the system during your training runs and and work on ways to keep yourself running strong for 10 minutes after you hit that wall.  If you push through you get your "second wind" as your body switches gears.  If you slow down too much or stop you never get into that next gear.

2017-10-18 3:34 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Marathon training
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by nrpoulin Sorry this isn't triathlon related. I finished my tri season which included my first HIM. I was running 4 x a week during training following a 22 week marathon plan for run workouts. I started several weeks in and adjusted the long run (added miles) to were my current fitness was. I have now ran greater than 13.1 miles on my long day for 9 of 10 weeks. I've done 2 16 mile runs and an 18. Runs over 15 are really tough. I fell there are a number of distance plateaus but i can't get past this one (yet). Is this the way im supposed to feel at this point? Is this thw way others have felt? Or is this more related to combining tri and marathon training and an overall low weekly mileage. I have moved from 4 runs to 5 now that tri is done. May need to adjust expectations...

 

If I understand correctly you are 10 weeks into a 22 weeks Marathon Running plan but you started several weeks into the 22 week running plan so even though you are 10 weeks into the plan you are probably flowing the work outs for about week 15.  Is that correct?

1) first off, you shouldn't need to add miles to a marathon plan.  They always feel too easy when you start off, but they build each week and so by the time you are 10 weeks into them they are really pushing you.  If you start of doing to much as the volume increases and you accumulate fatigue you are going to feel weak, exhausted, or fatigued.  So you may have to scale things back rather than increasing at week 10 if you started with too much volume.

 

2) Second,  You learn a lot about your body's energy systems doing endurance training and events.  It has been about 25 years since I took AP Biology but I remember there is an Alcohol cycle, a lactate cycle, the Krebs cycle, etc.  Each cycle can fuel the body for a different amount of time them you run out of energy and the body must switch gear into another energy cycle. Glycogen is the main thing that fuels running.  Most people can store enough glycogen to fuel running for about 2-2-1/2 hours.  Then it is depleted and the body reaches a limit called the runner's wall.  If you are doing a good job or refueling during a run (i.e. that is what those Gu packs are for) then it will take about 10 minutes of feeling really lousy as your switch from the stored glycogen in your liver to the glycogen that goes into your blood stream from your refueling.  There is no easy way around this.  The more experience you have the easier the transition goes.  It is like learning to run off the bike.  The first time you jump off the bike and start to run you legs feel like jello and it is about all you can do to keep from falling flat on your face, but after practicing it a half dozen times you body learns how to make the transition and you can run just fine off the bike.  It is the same way with the runners wall.  The first time you hit it is about all you can do to keep from falling flat on yur face.  The more times you do it the better you body makes the transition.  On of my Marathon buddies told me it was about his 10th marathon before he could run the whole race.  his first 9 marathons when he hit the wall it required him to slow way down and really effect his race.  After about 10 marathons he could run the whole race at an even pace.  So practice refueling on those long runs.  You are probably burning 1000 calories an hour.  Working on getting that much back into the system during your training runs and and work on ways to keep yourself running strong for 10 minutes after you hit that wall.  If you push through you get your "second wind" as your body switches gears.  If you slow down too much or stop you never get into that next gear.




I started on week 8 of the plan because that allowed me to complete the 22 week plan (my race being in week 22). I added 2 miles to the long run (weeks 8 and 9) as I my long run was already several miles longer at that point, and I didn't want to loose fitness. Due to my work schedule I anticipated missing some workouts. But I didn't miss any big ones. I am now about four weeks out from my race. I tend to drink a lot while I run, and do the Gu's every 4.5 to 5 miles which is about every 45 minutes. I mix in one with more amino acids, and save the ones with caffeine for later. I also carry a Gatorade equivalent and refill the 22 ounce bottle around 12 miles. Perhaps I will take a little more at 12 miles on my next long run to see if I just need more calories.

I was hoping that like other distance plateaus that after running said distance 2-3 times it would become easy, but over 15 is still a lot of work. I may need to adjust my goal pace, but don't want the goal to be to simply finish. My last big run is supposed to be this weekend but I have to push it till Monday due to work. Perhaps it will be easier. Or maybe marathons are just hard. Lol.

Nate
2017-11-13 10:18 PM
in reply to: nrpoulin

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Subject: RE: Marathon training
Just wanted to post a followup. Marathon complete and I did better than expected. Held a pretty steady pace thru 19 miles and then slowed a bit steadily over the next 7. Now a brief recovery interval before resuming training for next race.


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