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2017-11-10 2:14 PM


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Subject: Fins for a beginner
All:

Prepping for my first tri next summer (July 2018) and looking to grab any guidance this group may have on whether fins make sense for beginners who are trying to improve in the water. Current gear for me beyond the basic includes a pull buoy and a snorkel. Are fins, etc. worth it at this point? Any recommendations on a brand/model?

Thanks in advance.

Jason


2017-11-10 4:54 PM
in reply to: Tri_JC

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Probably not, unless they were suggested by a coach for some particular technique issue you are having, and he/she has suggested a drill involving fins and can make sure you are doing it correctly. While they're sometimes used for certain drills, to help develop looser ankle joints (useful for kicking; maybe the only use I would even think about for a beginner), and to teach butterfly, many triathletes who are weak swimmers over-use them and become dependent on them. Ditto for pull buoys and paddles. Remember, you can't use any of these in an event. Fins allow you to swim fast while still having serious technique flaws. So instead of fixing those flaws, you zoom along and think you are doing great, while reinforcing bad technique. Ditto for the pull buoy--while there are legitimate uses of it, like developing upper-body strength and focusing on specific aspects of your pull during drills, many triathletes overuse it, because it allows them to swim longer/faster without ever developing good body position or the core strength to maintain it. Then when a race is not wetsuit-legal (the wetsuit provides similar buoyancy) they are screwed.

I've been astonished how widespread this dependency is. World 70.3 Championships, this year--water temps were borderline, but very comfortable without a wetsuit, even for me (super cold-blooded). When they announced race morning that it would be wetsuit-legal after all, there was widespread rejoicing among the age-group athletes. One woman standing next to me even yelled, "Hallelujah, praise the lord!" OMG. You've gotten all the way to Worlds and you are still that dependent on your wetsuit???

In short, with the exception of targeted drills, preferably under a coach's supervision, the more swimming you can do without "pool toys", the better.
2017-11-11 9:28 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Fins are kinda a crutch in the pool. There are two purposes I can see (and I've used them off an on for years): One, they will cut down on how much you need to rely on leg strength to maintain proper hydrodynamic positioning in the water. This is really only of importance in giving your legs a break from bike and run. The caveat is that you won't be able to use fins in a race so you should not be dependent on them for good form. Develop the good form first and then use the fins if you want to give your legs a bit of a break while in the pool. Two, they will make your flip turns awesome. The dolphin kick necessary to snap your legs over your head during a proper flip turn is hugely enhanced by fins. But as many, many, many threads on this board have stated, flipping turns is not a necessary part of swim training.

So, in short, there is no pressing need for fins and many strong swimmers do not use them at all. 0% of good swimmers use a snorkel, that you should ditch ASAP.
2017-11-11 5:39 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Really? Fins help you do flip turns? I'd never noticed. I think it's much more difficult with the fins. No problem "snapping" otherwise!

I am not a beginner, nor am I a top-level swimmer, but pretty strong for my age group (usually in the top 3 at a smaller event or top 20% for a bigger one, MOP to FMOP at Worlds on the swim). This is what I use fins for:

*Many (but not all) kick sets--My feet tend to be pretty inflexible, and this has caused injury problems in the past, plus often my legs are tired from biking or running earlier in the day. (BTW--DON'T use fins for breaststroke kick. Very bad for your knees.) They can be used for free, fly, and backstroke kick. Underwater dolphin kick with fins is a nice way to stretch out lower back and hamstrings after a hard run or bike.

*Sometimes for fly during warmup and cool down, or if I want to swim more than 50m of it in a workout but am feeling lazy. (I like fly, but it's strenuous!)

*One particular drill where you kick on your side, then take three strokes, and switch sides. Recommended by a coach after video analysis--I tend to under-rotate and swim kind of "flat".

These are normal uses and would total at most 300 to 400m in a typical 3000-3500m workout.

Finally, I might use them (and/or a pull buoy) for part of an easy recovery swim after a race or long training ride or run, if I'm getting over an arm injury, or develop an arm cramp during a workout but want to finish. They allow you to go through the pull with less force, because you are getting much more propulsion from your kick. This can be useful if the main purpose for the workout is to just go through the range of motion and spend time in the water for recovery or healing purposes.

For a beginner, I would say that some kick sets and targeted drills would be the only productive use.

2017-11-12 12:45 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Thanks for the pointers everybody. Much appreciated. As to their purpose it would strictly be for the prescribed kick sets. Currently using a "generic" structure plan in Training Peaks and I'm finding the kick sets aren't super productive.

Again thanks for the advice!

JC
2017-11-12 2:30 PM
in reply to: Tri_JC

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Originally posted by Tri_JC

Thanks for the pointers everybody. Much appreciated. As to their purpose it would strictly be for the prescribed kick sets. Currently using a "generic" structure plan in Training Peaks and I'm finding the kick sets aren't super productive.

Again thanks for the advice!

JC


BTW there is a great podcast on swimming called Tower 26. In some of the very early podcasts they break swimming down into tautness, alignment and propulsion. It's free. Give it a listen.

In recent episodes they discuss the use of fins and snorkel in the development of tautness and alignment.

They are tools to be used at the right time for the right amount of time. Interesting, some ITU athletes use half the pool I regularly swim at. They use both fins and snorkels. A lane mate of mine is top 10 in the world OWSwimmer. She uses both. So some serious swimmers do use these tools. But they use the properly.


2017-11-12 6:49 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner

If you are a beginner, everything that helps to keep you in the water is useful. If you want to stick with triathlon and become a better swimmer, you will figure out what's useful (get a coach) and what isn't (almost everything you are doing),

2017-11-12 7:13 PM
in reply to: Tri_JC


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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
There has been some terrible advice in this thread. Absolutely use fins, and absolutely do kick sets using them. Fins will help you achieve a position in the water that will be more difficult to maintain until you get faster. As with any tool, you shouldn't use them all the time. Go to any local swim team practice and you will see plenty of fins on deck.
2017-11-13 6:02 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Originally posted by Left Brain

If you are a beginner, everything that helps to keep you in the water is useful. If you want to stick with triathlon and become a better swimmer, you will figure out what's useful (get a coach) and what isn't (almost everything you are doing),




It's interesting you know what I am doing.





2017-11-13 8:47 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

If you are a beginner, everything that helps to keep you in the water is useful. If you want to stick with triathlon and become a better swimmer, you will figure out what's useful (get a coach) and what isn't (almost everything you are doing),

It's interesting you know what I am doing.

I guess I forgot you were a beginner.....which IS who I addressed.  My bad.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-13 8:48 AM
2017-11-13 11:02 AM
in reply to: marcag


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Subject: RE: Fins for a beginner
Thanks! I've been listening to Tower 26 for a few weeks now. Agree that it is really helpful!



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