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2017-11-14 1:34 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.

At some point, always, I don't give up principles for politics.  As the father of 4 daughters, I'm at that point on this issue.

 

Seriously dude, if a 32 year old man slept with your 16 year old daughter, you'd still vote for him because you want the republicans to be in control... I see what conservative values are.




I know you love me but I am NOT your dude. I’m just not your type.

Nobody slept with anyone! That has never been alledged. But if a 32 yo dated my daughter I’d take a baseball bat and break both his knees. But my daughter would never date a 32 yo. And she has has self defense training and unlikely a sexual assault would be successful. She would also tell me if something happened....unless she was protecting the guy knowing I’d break his knees.


2017-11-14 1:43 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.

At some point, always, I don't give up principles for politics.  As the father of 4 daughters, I'm at that point on this issue.

 

Seriously dude, if a 32 year old man slept with your 16 year old daughter, you'd still vote for him because you want the republicans to be in control... I see what conservative values are.

One of the girls in this case was 14, let's not forget.




Yeah that is the one allegation that bothers me.

Election is still a month away and I remain open minded to additional evidence.

Funny thing how the allegations did not come up in the primaries when there was time to elect a different republican. The allegations/story was withheld until AFTER the primary. 30 days earlier and there would (might) be a different rep on the ballot. But the machine knew this so they waited until it was too late to get a different rep. No proof, no evidence, no corroboration....40 year old allegation...30 days prior to the election. Color me skeptical to say the least.
2017-11-14 1:51 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Washington Post says they heard these allegations through something unrelated and then started investigating them more.

I have no doubt the WaPo investigated and then coaxed these women to tell their stories *after* the ballot deadline, like you said.  It doesn't mean these women are liars, but it also doesn't mean the WaPo is completely free of an agenda.

So on the topic of fairness, I have a question because I honestly don't know the rules.  If Moore drops out right now, his name will be stuck on the ballot, so any other Republican challenger would have to do a write-in campaign.

But let's say the election goes forward, Moore wins, gets seated in the Senate, and then the other senators vote him out.  What happens then?  Is there a special election for replacement?  Or does the governor appoint someone?  Or does the seat stay empty?  It seems like any of those options are better for Republicans than having him drop out right now.

2017-11-14 1:57 PM
in reply to: Rogillio


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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.
2017-11-14 2:32 PM
in reply to: SGirl

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Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

2017-11-14 3:43 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.




The obvious difference here is the potential for political motivation (recall one of assusers worked for Clinton) and the lure or being in the national limelight for 15 minutes of fame. Maybe I am just too cynical but false accusations do happen and the political arena seems to me to be fertile ground for growing tales. I’d like to see the accusers submit to a lie detector test. Same with Moore. I know they are not admissible I’m court but we are not in court. If I were an accuser I would demand a lie detector test to help validate my claims. Then again, Moore should ask for one too.

BTW 30 years ago I visited the governors masion in Little Rock and met Hillary. She said she wanted a young stud like me for the night to get even with Bill. I boinked her but I never told anyone. You can check the visitor log and verify I was there 30 years ago. I figured people would say I was lying so never told anyone. She should never be POTUS.


2017-11-14 3:55 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

The obvious difference here is the potential for political motivation (recall one of assusers worked for Clinton) and the lure or being in the national limelight for 15 minutes of fame. Maybe I am just too cynical but false accusations do happen and the political arena seems to me to be fertile ground for growing tales. I’d like to see the accusers submit to a lie detector test. Same with Moore. I know they are not admissible I’m court but we are not in court. If I were an accuser I would demand a lie detector test to help validate my claims. Then again, Moore should ask for one too. BTW 30 years ago I visited the governors masion in Little Rock and met Hillary. She said she wanted a young stud like me for the night to get even with Bill. I boinked her but I never told anyone. You can check the visitor log and verify I was there 30 years ago. I figured people would say I was lying so never told anyone. She should never be POTUS.

Not even on the same planet as what we are discussing.

And Rog - this idiot admitted dating these kids......this isn't a guess.  You go ahead and vote for the guy you wouldn't let near your own 16 year old daughter......no forking way I would.

2017-11-14 4:07 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Rog - don't ya'll have anybody down that way,  who didn't date high school girls when they were in their mid 30's, that can get elected as a Republican?  I wouldn't vote for that weird bastard under any circumstances.

Ok then, we won’t count on your vote. I am 72.3% confident he not sexually assault anyone. The one accuser who worked for Hillary and Biden and was part of the impeach Trump movement is just hard to accept. It’s just too easy to make a accusation of something that supposedly happened 40 years ago that was never told and not corroborated. At least he didn’t sodomize a 20 year old with a cigar. 4 women and none of them said a word to anyone for 40 years? Doubtful. I will ask around and see if I can find someone who didn’t date teenagers. But given the rate of teen pregnancy it won’t be easy.

That one accuser is also one that Moore isn't denying. "I know her, but I don't remember going out on dates. I knew her as a friend. If we did go out on dates, then we did. But I don't remember that." 

It makes it a little easier to accept when he can't categorically deny dating her when she was 17.

2017-11-14 4:08 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

The obvious difference here is the potential for political motivation (recall one of assusers worked for Clinton) and the lure or being in the national limelight for 15 minutes of fame. Maybe I am just too cynical but false accusations do happen and the political arena seems to me to be fertile ground for growing tales. I’d like to see the accusers submit to a lie detector test. Same with Moore. I know they are not admissible I’m court but we are not in court. If I were an accuser I would demand a lie detector test to help validate my claims. Then again, Moore should ask for one too. BTW 30 years ago I visited the governors masion in Little Rock and met Hillary. She said she wanted a young stud like me for the night to get even with Bill. I boinked her but I never told anyone. You can check the visitor log and verify I was there 30 years ago. I figured people would say I was lying so never told anyone. She should never be POTUS.

Not even on the same planet as what we are discussing.

And Rog - this idiot admitted dating these kids......this isn't a guess.  You go ahead and vote for the guy you wouldn't let near your own 16 year old daughter......no forking way I would.




It is an illustration of a politically motivated unverifiable allegation that cannot be disproven.

Still a month to go before the election. I am open to more information. But I stand by my prediction he will win the election....unless irrefutable evidence of sexual assault comes out.

If he loses and dems take the Senate then only liberal judges will get appointed to the SCOTUS and much damage will be done to the republic for years to come....probably weaken your second amendment rights. :-)
2017-11-14 4:17 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Rog - don't ya'll have anybody down that way,  who didn't date high school girls when they were in their mid 30's, that can get elected as a Republican?  I wouldn't vote for that weird bastard under any circumstances.

Ok then, we won’t count on your vote. I am 72.3% confident he not sexually assault anyone. The one accuser who worked for Hillary and Biden and was part of the impeach Trump movement is just hard to accept. It’s just too easy to make a accusation of something that supposedly happened 40 years ago that was never told and not corroborated. At least he didn’t sodomize a 20 year old with a cigar. 4 women and none of them said a word to anyone for 40 years? Doubtful. I will ask around and see if I can find someone who didn’t date teenagers. But given the rate of teen pregnancy it won’t be easy.

That one accuser is also one that Moore isn't denying. "I know her, but I don't remember going out on dates. I knew her as a friend. If we did go out on dates, then we did. But I don't remember that." 

It makes it a little easier to accept when he can't categorically deny dating her when she was 17.




True.
2017-11-14 4:29 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Correct me if I am wrong but I am never wrong.

Seriously though I have enjoyed the debate and a lot of good points have been made and I am less inclined now to vote for him than I was. You all have made some very good point and....I may be wrong. Interesting dilemma. If you hear or read more news good or bad, please post. That he might have dated a 17 yo when he was 30 is, in and of itself, not sufficient grounds to disqualify him IMO. Maybe they just had dinner....:-)


2017-11-14 5:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

The obvious difference here is the potential for political motivation (recall one of assusers worked for Clinton) and the lure or being in the national limelight for 15 minutes of fame. Maybe I am just too cynical but false accusations do happen and the political arena seems to me to be fertile ground for growing tales. I’d like to see the accusers submit to a lie detector test. Same with Moore. I know they are not admissible I’m court but we are not in court. If I were an accuser I would demand a lie detector test to help validate my claims. Then again, Moore should ask for one too. BTW 30 years ago I visited the governors masion in Little Rock and met Hillary. She said she wanted a young stud like me for the night to get even with Bill. I boinked her but I never told anyone. You can check the visitor log and verify I was there 30 years ago. I figured people would say I was lying so never told anyone. She should never be POTUS.

Not even on the same planet as what we are discussing.

And Rog - this idiot admitted dating these kids......this isn't a guess.  You go ahead and vote for the guy you wouldn't let near your own 16 year old daughter......no forking way I would.

It is an illustration of a politically motivated unverifiable allegation that cannot be disproven. Still a month to go before the election. I am open to more information. But I stand by my prediction he will win the election....unless irrefutable evidence of sexual assault comes out. If he loses and dems take the Senate then only liberal judges will get appointed to the SCOTUS and much damage will be done to the republic for years to come....probably weaken your second amendment rights. :-)

I'm OK with fighting for my 2nd amendment rights without that azzhole on my side.

I've enjoyed the discussion as well. 

That being said, I'll have to bow out for the next 4 or 5 days.  There are deer and ducks that need killing.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-14 5:41 PM
2017-11-14 8:18 PM
in reply to: #5230886

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
“...we've got enough weird azzholes running this country. Why add another?”

  • .. and we have a winner. Thanks for coming.
  • 2017-11-15 7:13 AM
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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
    I hear banjos playing' when I look at this dude.

    And who dresses him? Frederica Wilson?

    Edited by mdg2003 2017-11-15 7:14 AM
    2017-11-15 7:49 AM
    in reply to: #5230886

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    Good luck Lefty, got a trip planned for scoup and canvasbacks in Dec. just in time to tryout my new 20ga
    2017-11-15 8:43 AM
    in reply to: Rogillio

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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

    Originally posted by Rogillio
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by Rogillio
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

    I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

    I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

    I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

    It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

    The obvious difference here is the potential for political motivation (recall one of assusers worked for Clinton) and the lure or being in the national limelight for 15 minutes of fame. Maybe I am just too cynical but false accusations do happen and the political arena seems to me to be fertile ground for growing tales. I’d like to see the accusers submit to a lie detector test. Same with Moore. I know they are not admissible I’m court but we are not in court. If I were an accuser I would demand a lie detector test to help validate my claims. Then again, Moore should ask for one too. BTW 30 years ago I visited the governors masion in Little Rock and met Hillary. She said she wanted a young stud like me for the night to get even with Bill. I boinked her but I never told anyone. You can check the visitor log and verify I was there 30 years ago. I figured people would say I was lying so never told anyone. She should never be POTUS.

    Not even on the same planet as what we are discussing.

    And Rog - this idiot admitted dating these kids......this isn't a guess.  You go ahead and vote for the guy you wouldn't let near your own 16 year old daughter......no forking way I would.

    It is an illustration of a politically motivated unverifiable allegation that cannot be disproven. Still a month to go before the election. I am open to more information. But I stand by my prediction he will win the election....unless irrefutable evidence of sexual assault comes out. If he loses and dems take the Senate then only liberal judges will get appointed to the SCOTUS and much damage will be done to the republic for years to come....probably weaken your second amendment rights. :-)

    The GOP can lose this seat and they'll still have a majority, plus the tie breaker. There's almost nothing Trump couldn't accomplish right now if he could just unite his party. But even if Dems took over control of the Senate in the midterms, it's not like Trump is going to start nominating liberal judges. Worst thing they could do is leave the seat open by refusing to even consider a nominee from the duly elected President of the United States under a thinly-veiled excuse of wanting to let the people decide in the next election. But no party would stoop that low, amirite?

    So the 2A will be just fine, and you don't even have to vote for an (alleged) pedophile. 



    2017-11-15 12:31 PM
    in reply to: Left Brain


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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

    I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

    I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

    I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

    It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.




    No one outside of the Catholic Church really knew what was going on, and the hierarchy all knew that the priests were in the wrong. Not believing possible victims' allegations, and not caring to get justice for them, are two different things. Same thing with the Penn State sexual scandals with Sandusky. Not many people knew other than the staff, what was going on, and they knew it was weird, wrong, potentially a crime...and did nothing. It's not that people don't believe victims automatically. I don't believe that.

    No matter what someone's allegations are against another, sexually related or not, the media shouldn't be the courtroom, and the person being accused is already found guilty. If we should just take everyone on their word, why have trials at all?
    2017-11-16 3:08 PM
    in reply to: SGirl

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    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/what-if-democrats-majo...

    I think they must have read our thread from yesterday.
    2017-11-20 9:03 AM
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    Originally posted by SGirl
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by SGirl I don't automatically believe all of these stories, without knowing the details. And doubt we'll ever know all the details. So, some might be telling the truth and psychologically, they felt afraid to come forward when they were younger after it happened, but some do make false accusations. I feel that these cases are not handled right by the media, because we don't know the details, but we leap (as a culture) to believing these allegations without knowing all of the facts.

    I don't think that's true at all.  I've investigated sex crimes, among others, for decades.  I can tell you that, as a culture, what we have always done is leap toward NOT believing victims.  The same as it was done on a very large scale with the Catholic Church.....to the point that abusers were able to continue for years and years under the veil of people not giving proper credence to reports from victims. Look where that ended up.

    I can tell you, without question, the overwhelming (AS IN NEARLY ALL) number of sexual assault/abuse accusations are true.  And as a culture, we have NEVER leaped to believing the allegations.

    I am well aware of the false accusations that have grabbed headlines and been pointed to as a "told you so" moment (Duke Lacrosse, etc).....I don't care, those are few and far between the thousands and thousands of cases reported each year that never make a single headline.

    It's good to see things swing the other way with regard to sexual assault and abuse......we will be wrong far less often.

    No one outside of the Catholic Church really knew what was going on, and the hierarchy all knew that the priests were in the wrong. Not believing possible victims' allegations, and not caring to get justice for them, are two different things. Same thing with the Penn State sexual scandals with Sandusky. Not many people knew other than the staff, what was going on, and they knew it was weird, wrong, potentially a crime...and did nothing. It's not that people don't believe victims automatically. I don't believe that. No matter what someone's allegations are against another, sexually related or not, the media shouldn't be the courtroom, and the person being accused is already found guilty. If we should just take everyone on their word, why have trials at all?

    Well that's a big steaming pile of bull crap......I went to a Catholic high school and was told by parents, teachers, priests, and other clergy people who to stay away from almost from the time I was enrolled there.  30 years later all of those men were indicted.....THIRTY FRIGGIN YEARS......and everybody knew and said nothing in any official way until the amount of victims grew so large it couldn't be contained.  NONE OF THEM WERE LYING.  One kid I was to high school with commityed suicide over it.

    Years later, I led an investigation into a Priest that was at my High School at the time.  he had never been implicated and there was a great outpooring of support for him and against the kid who was accusing him.  Guess what? He did it.

    I don't give a rats arse whether these azzholes are tried in a legal court, the court of public opinion, or the press......as long as it is proclaimed loud and clear what they are.

    I hate people who take advantage of other people.....I don't care what happens to any of them.



    Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-20 9:04 AM
    2017-11-20 11:30 AM
    in reply to: trijamie


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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
    I have not been physically abused so I haven't walked a mile in their shoes either. But, some of these incidents would have been criminal complaints 30 or 40 years ago. Now, it is just one person's word against another. The only thing that can happen is someone gets booted out of office or whatever.

    When you look at the people out there like Weinstein, priests, or Bill Cosby, a question does come up. That question is could some men and women have been spared abuse if earlier victims had spoken up? I'm sure it is a horrible thing to come forward and face all the people who may try to discredit you. But it also cannot be ignored that the more an abuser gets away with it, the more emboldened they get, and the more abuse they inflict.
    2017-11-20 2:10 PM
    in reply to: Burchib

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    Originally posted by Burchib I have not been physically abused so I haven't walked a mile in their shoes either. But, some of these incidents would have been criminal complaints 30 or 40 years ago. Now, it is just one person's word against another. The only thing that can happen is someone gets booted out of office or whatever. When you look at the people out there like Weinstein, priests, or Bill Cosby, a question does come up. That question is could some men and women have been spared abuse if earlier victims had spoken up? I'm sure it is a horrible thing to come forward and face all the people who may try to discredit you. But it also cannot be ignored that the more an abuser gets away with it, the more emboldened they get, and the more abuse they inflict.

    Yep.  As I said in an earlier post, the majority of victims won't come forward out of fear.  Fear of people ridiculing them, fear from their vitctims who have threatened them, fear of a loss of their career.....and on and on.  IT'S WHY AN ABUSER PICKS A PARTICULAR VICTIM.  And then we, as a society, turn around and do exactly what the abuser counts on and the victim fears.  Looks like that is coming to an end.....and it needs to.

    I'll say it again.......  When someone claims abuse by someone who has an upper hand on them because of age, position of power, ability to inflict fear, etc.....THEY ARE NOT LYING. 

     



    2017-11-21 9:13 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain


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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
    Hey Left,
    I think you make a lot of great points. I always enjoy reading your posts here.

    Having said that, I saw a picture today in paper where in 2010 at the MN State Fair, Franken posed for a pic with a smiling young woman. It was her husband who took the pic!

    Today, in the paper, she said that during the pick, he had his hand firmly cupping her rear, and it was "eeeww" and icky" and gross. So 7 years ago, he grabs an at the state fair while hubby is right there, and waits 7 years to say it?? She wasn't associated with him or anything. She was a fairgoer. So he had no upper hand on her. Why didn't she tell hubby right then and there? The normal reaction would be to either smack the guy or go get a cop.

    I think the story I read today is BS and it undermines and brings into question the people that really were under someone's thumb and were being taken advantage of, which I do believe are many....and that is sad, because I do believe stories like the one today make people question the others.....

    PS: have never ever liked Franken.
    2017-11-21 9:37 AM
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    The accounts I have read say she told her parents about it and posted it on Facebook within days after it happened.  My guess is that in 2010 nobody cared, but once she saw him accused again she came forward.  The point is, she DID report it to someone.

    There is a former masseuse sitting in prison right now for molesting a 17 year old girl during a massage that was the result of a gift certificate her parents gave her.  She reported it to the Police 6 weeks after it happened because she said it was bothering her too much and she felt like she had to report it. She said she waited so long because she felt stupid and naive. (didn't know if it was part of a massage or not)   During our interview of her it was revealed that she immediately reported it to her girlfriend, who had driven her to the spa. 

    The accused vehemently denied the accusation, but later admitted it after I asked for consent to scrape under his fingernails for skin cells from the victim, which I convinced him took 90 days to disappear. (yeah, I know, that is a story for another time).

    In court his lawyer tried to make a big deal out of the fact that she didn't report it, but she did.  She reported it to the only person she felt safe and comfortable with.  The jury easily believed the girl after watching the recorded interview with the suspect. 

    You can not believe victims of abuse if you want, or call their stories bullchit, but I will believe them until I can convince myself they are lying for a reason I can articulate, not just because it's their word against the abuser.

     

     



    Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-21 9:59 AM
    2017-11-21 11:25 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
    In 1988 a good friend of mine called me from jail. Charge was rape. No well in hail this person raped anyone. Here is what happened.

    He was in a bar in L.A. and met this girl. They were both pretty drunk. The went to the parking lot and got in his car and had intercourse. Afterwards she made some snide comment and he said, "....you weren't that good anyway, get out of my car slut." or words to that effect. The next day he is at work and 3 cop cars pull in like they are making a drug bust, handcuff him and take him to jail. That is when he called me. Later that day he called me and said they let him out. The girl either recanted her story or 'refused to press charges' but they let him go.

    What is the old saying...."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

    I was 'raped' when I was 17 by a woman who was 20...and I told everyone!
    2017-11-21 12:25 PM
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    Originally posted by Rogillio In 1988 a good friend of mine called me from jail. Charge was rape. No well in hail this person raped anyone. Here is what happened. He was in a bar in L.A. and met this girl. They were both pretty drunk. The went to the parking lot and got in his car and had intercourse. Afterwards she made some snide comment and he said, "....you weren't that good anyway, get out of my car slut." or words to that effect. The next day he is at work and 3 cop cars pull in like they are making a drug bust, handcuff him and take him to jail. That is when he called me. Later that day he called me and said they let him out. The girl either recanted her story or 'refused to press charges' but they let him go. What is the old saying...."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". I was 'raped' when I was 17 by a woman who was 20...and I told everyone!

    Not the same as a sexual abuse/harrassment case.....not even remotely close.  And really, this kind of thing is what causes it all to come off the rails, even though it shouldn't, because these types of cases are basically never prosecuted, and if so, rarely go to trial.....because someone is lying and a bit of work exposes that.  So what happens is we all know a case like this, and we like to point to it as proof that victims of sex crimes are mostly liars, or at the very least, have unscrupulous motives.  It's just not true......but that's exactly how we got where we are today with hundreds of people finally feeling empowered to tell their story.  I like it.



    Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-21 12:31 PM
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