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2017-11-13 10:58 AM

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Champion
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Subject: Innocent until accused
Roy Moore has been elected to high public office for 40 years and suddenly when he runs for the Senate he gets accused? I am skeptical.

BTW, Moore was a democrat at the time. He became a republican in 1992.

The accusers, 3 were 16 or 17, and the one 14 yo are assumed to be truthful. One of the 4 worked for the Clinton campaign.

Why had they come forward sooner? To accuse a 70 yo man of sexual abuse 4 weeks before an election is suspicious. He is anti-establishment too so several republicans are assuming he is guilty also.

Opinion? Facts? Evidence?


2017-11-13 12:31 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Sooo, whats your point?  Mitch McConnel says he thinks he is guilty.  He isn't being thrown in prison or out of the election.  The people have the right to vote for him if they wish.

2017-11-13 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

I don't know about the 70 year old Moore, but the 30something Moore dated high school girls (16 year olds).......admitted by him.  He's weird, even if he's not guilty of anything that was illegal. 

I'll go with guilty.......and keep him out of the Senate.  We're not losing anything by not letting that goof be a Senator.

I never understand the folks who don't reveal they were abused until 10,20,30, or in this case, 40 years later......but I never walked in those shoes, so I don't judge it since it's very common.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-13 1:02 PM
2017-11-13 1:04 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

I've talked to women about things like this, and what they usually tell me is its a combination of fear, self blame, and the (often correct) belief that no one will believe them and they will be scorned. Which i would like to point out is what Rogillio is doing.  The "me too" movement has emboldened millions of women to come forward about the abuse they have suffered.

2017-11-13 1:10 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by dmiller5

I've talked to women about things like this, and what they usually tell me is its a combination of fear, self blame, and the (often correct) belief that no one will believe them and they will be scorned. Which i would like to point out is what Rogillio is doing.  The "me too" movement has emboldened millions of women to come forward about the abuse they have suffered.

I don't know how many victims of childhood abuse I have talked to.....abused by Priests, teachers, neighbors, parents....men and women.  I would say the only thing they have in common is that they aren't lying.

I still don't get it.......I would think i would have shouted it from the rooftop (or at least gone back and slashed their tires, broke their windows, and set their houses on fire) but I also know, without a doubt, that victims are chosen for a variety of reasons of vulnerability...so there is that.  Again, I don't judge, I've never been in those shoes.

2017-11-13 1:52 PM
in reply to: #5230886

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Rog, I think that Alabamians need to push Moore out of the race and run someone in his place. If the state elects Moore it will reflect poorly and this will discourage badly needed investments from the (largely) blue state economies. I know how important it is to go your own way, but there will be negative implications from a poor choice here


2017-11-13 2:15 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by dmiller5

Sooo, whats your point?  Mitch McConnel says he thinks he is guilty.  He isn't being thrown in prison or out of the election.  The people have the right to vote for him if they wish.





Sooo what is your point?

I was just opening up the discussion as a current political event topic in the politics forum.

Moore was elected as AL AG and recently to the AL Supreme Court judge and no one came forward then. But the balance of power in Congress is at stake and these woman suddenly show up 40 years later?

McConnel’s man lost in the primary so there is no surprise there.

I predict he will win. I live in Alabama and I will vote for him. I remain skeptical of 40 year old accusations that appear from nowhere.

We had a POTUS sodomize a 20 year old intern in the Oval Office while he was married and then lied about it under oath. Several other women in Bill’s past including one that claims she was raped while he was governor of Arkansas. Democrat Byrd was an admitted klansmen and dems elected him over and over until he was out of his gord.
2017-11-13 2:27 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
2017-11-13 2:43 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/11/one-roy-moores-accusers-ties... What are the odds?

Judging from the election...........about 50/50.

2017-11-13 2:54 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio

I predict he will win. I live in Alabama and I will vote for him. I remain skeptical of 40 year old accusations that appear from nowhere.

Maybe a better place to start would be voting for someone who respects the Constitution.



Edited by spudone 2017-11-13 2:56 PM
2017-11-13 3:05 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
If Mitch the Btich doesn't want him, I'll guess there's reason enough right there to be suspicious of the charges. Same a-hole tried to jam another Bush down our throats, so his opinion means dic* to me. But a guy in his 30s dating high school girls? Something is amiss with this dude. How does 'The One with Magnificent Orange Plumage' feel about Moore?


2017-11-13 4:33 PM
in reply to: #5230886

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Wife just showed me where he signed a “friends” high school yearbook in the 70s. Very creepy
2017-11-13 9:15 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
I just hope no one judges me based on unsubstantiated ascusarions of what I might or might not have done 40 years ago.
2017-11-13 9:28 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio

I predict he will win. I live in Alabama and I will vote for him. I remain skeptical of 40 year old accusations that appear from nowhere.

Maybe a better place to start would be voting for someone who respects the Constitution.




I think he has represented the constitution better than anyone in the last 30 years. He is a strict constructionist and believes as I do. The constituent is NOT a ‘living document’ to be interpreted by the judiciary as times change. That is the role of the legislatury branch of government. If society changes then change the constitution..,,don’t allow activist judges ‘interpret’ the Constitution based on where they think society is. Moore’s record supports this view of the constitution.

When he defied the SCOTUS I agreed with him 100% and so dit most people in Alabama. That is why he won election to the AL court in a landslide.

Moore is somewhat of a rebel and as such is a hero I much the way the James brothers were.

I may be wrong - and usually am - but I think he will win by at least 5 points.
2017-11-13 9:43 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/11/one-roy-moores-accusers-ties... What are the odds?

Judging from the election...........about 50/50.




Yes...depending on the poll. I’ve seen him up 5 and down 5. But the last election taught us to ignore polls.

This is an odd election in December and most people (recall the uninformed masses) will not vote. Many of them who do vote will have never heard of his story.

I try to keep up with the news and with politics but can honestly say I do not know the name of the democrat on the ticket. Roy Moore is a fing ledgend! Everyone knows his name! And when the SCOTUS told him to remove the 10 commandments from his court he said FU! He feds had to come and remove them. That won over the hearts and minds of many Alabamians who are sick of the federal government running rough shod over the will of the state.

Then the SCOTUS allowed homosexual marriage against the overwhelming majority of people of Alabama voting against it. And again people resented the Feds trampling on States rights. Judge Moore refused to compel people religiously opposed to SSM to perform the weddings and again he was hailed as a hero!

So many people view this as the Washington establishment trying to manipulate our election.


And that my BT friends is the view from an Alabamian. Roll Tide!
2017-11-13 10:18 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/11/one-roy-moores-accusers-ties... What are the odds?

Judging from the election...........about 50/50.

Yes...depending on the poll. I’ve seen him up 5 and down 5. But the last election taught us to ignore polls. This is an odd election in December and most people (recall the uninformed masses) will not vote. Many of them who do vote will have never heard of his story. I try to keep up with the news and with politics but can honestly say I do not know the name of the democrat on the ticket. Roy Moore is a fing ledgend! Everyone knows his name! And when the SCOTUS told him to remove the 10 commandments from his court he said FU! He feds had to come and remove them. That won over the hearts and minds of many Alabamians who are sick of the federal government running rough shod over the will of the state. Then the SCOTUS allowed homosexual marriage against the overwhelming majority of people of Alabama voting against it. And again people resented the Feds trampling on States rights. Judge Moore refused to compel people religiously opposed to SSM to perform the weddings and again he was hailed as a hero! So many people view this as the Washington establishment trying to manipulate our election. And that my BT friends is the view from an Alabamian. Roll Tide!

Seeing as how he was a state judge (I think?), and not federal, I could almost buy that argument.  But if you want to get into constitutional issues, we're talking about two things here: the 1st amendment's establishment clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

and the supremacy clause (Article 6 clause 2):This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

But I even looked in the Alabama state constitution and it outright says that it still abides by the 1st amendment / establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution.  Maybe putting his religion above the law got him some support, but he was removed from the bench twice for a reason.  State law doesn't override the U.S. Constitution.

So in that sense, I understand the voters who want him in the Senate.  If people feel "trampled on" by the feds, it's a representative government, so they're trying to elect someone who will represent what they want.  I get it.  Senators swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.  If Roy Moore wants to start a movement to get it amended, more power to him.  But I think he has shown that he would rather disregard the rule of law when it comes to religion.

 

Edited for formatting.



Edited by spudone 2017-11-13 10:19 PM


2017-11-14 9:32 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/11/one-roy-moores-accusers-ties... What are the odds?

Judging from the election...........about 50/50.

Yes...depending on the poll. I’ve seen him up 5 and down 5. But the last election taught us to ignore polls. This is an odd election in December and most people (recall the uninformed masses) will not vote. Many of them who do vote will have never heard of his story. I try to keep up with the news and with politics but can honestly say I do not know the name of the democrat on the ticket. Roy Moore is a fing ledgend! Everyone knows his name! And when the SCOTUS told him to remove the 10 commandments from his court he said FU! He feds had to come and remove them. That won over the hearts and minds of many Alabamians who are sick of the federal government running rough shod over the will of the state. Then the SCOTUS allowed homosexual marriage against the overwhelming majority of people of Alabama voting against it. And again people resented the Feds trampling on States rights. Judge Moore refused to compel people religiously opposed to SSM to perform the weddings and again he was hailed as a hero! So many people view this as the Washington establishment trying to manipulate our election. And that my BT friends is the view from an Alabamian. Roll Tide!

Seeing as how he was a state judge (I think?), and not federal, I could almost buy that argument.  But if you want to get into constitutional issues, we're talking about two things here: the 1st amendment's establishment clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

and the supremacy clause (Article 6 clause 2):This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

But I even looked in the Alabama state constitution and it outright says that it still abides by the 1st amendment / establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution.  Maybe putting his religion above the law got him some support, but he was removed from the bench twice for a reason.  State law doesn't override the U.S. Constitution.

So in that sense, I understand the voters who want him in the Senate.  If people feel "trampled on" by the feds, it's a representative government, so they're trying to elect someone who will represent what they want.  I get it.  Senators swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.  If Roy Moore wants to start a movement to get it amended, more power to him.  But I think he has shown that he would rather disregard the rule of law when it comes to religion.

 

Edited for formatting.




Of course the debate centers around the interpretation of “establishment of a religion”. This was added to stop what they had experienced with The Church of England. Separation of church and state is not in the constitution but many people believe the constitution demands freedom from religion. Many believe it’s ok to pray at football games (we still do in my hometown). And it’s ok to have the 10 commandments on a plaque at the courthouse. This is the heart of the Baptist Belt and we want to protect our religious liberty....it is part and parcel to the culture of society here.

It is my opinion the federal government is too strong and powerful and has taken away state sovereignty. I think Moore’s rebellious actions reflects the attitude many of the people in Alabama have. When the people vote 87% against SSM and the fed comes in and overrules the will of the people....we smile and swallow and mostly comply but there lingers a resentment of feds.

This is just my opinion and observations. I may be completely wrong and Moore might lose in a landslide. But he will still get my vote cause FU. Not you Spudone, the establishment and Washington machine and fed and McConnel and GOP elite and democrats any anyone else that want to tell us how to vote.
2017-11-14 9:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Rog - don't ya'll have anybody down that way,  who didn't date high school girls when they were in their mid 30's, that can get elected as a Republican?  I wouldn't vote for that weird bastard under any circumstances.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-14 9:41 AM
2017-11-14 10:29 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Left Brain

Rog - don't ya'll have anybody down that way,  who didn't date high school girls when they were in their mid 30's, that can get elected as a Republican?  I wouldn't vote for that weird bastard under any circumstances.




Ok then, we won’t count on your vote. I am 72.3% confident he not sexually assault anyone.

The one accuser who worked for Hillary and Biden and was part of the impeach Trump movement is just hard to accept. It’s just too easy to make a accusation of something that supposedly happened 40 years ago that was never told and not corroborated. At least he didn’t sodomize a 20 year old with a cigar. 4 women and none of them said a word to anyone for 40 years? Doubtful.

I will ask around and see if I can find someone who didn’t date teenagers. But given the rate of teen pregnancy it won’t be easy.
2017-11-14 10:35 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

2017-11-14 10:49 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?




Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.


2017-11-14 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women kids.

At some point, always, I don't give up principles for politics.  As the father of 4 daughters, I'm at that point on this issue.

Oh, and I fixed it for you.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-11-14 12:37 PM
2017-11-14 12:37 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.

At some point, always, I don't give up principles for politics.  As the father of 4 daughters, I'm at that point on this issue.

 

Seriously dude, if a 32 year old man slept with your 16 year old daughter, you'd still vote for him because you want the republicans to be in control... I see what conservative values are.

2017-11-14 1:04 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

Master
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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.

At some point, always, I don't give up principles for politics.  As the father of 4 daughters, I'm at that point on this issue.

 

Seriously dude, if a 32 year old man slept with your 16 year old daughter, you'd still vote for him because you want the republicans to be in control... I see what conservative values are.

One of the girls in this case was 14, let's not forget.

2017-11-14 1:20 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Innocent until accused

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Well if you're looking for someone who didn't date 16 year olds when he was in his 30's (not an accusation.....admitted by Moore).......I'll make it easy on you and send you my address. 

I don't care if he assaulted anyone or not.....we've got enough weird azzholes running this country.  Why add another?

Weird asz or lose GOP majority in the Senate? I’ll take the guy who dated younger women.

I suppose "dated younger women" is one way to put it.

From yesterday's news conference with a fifth victim to speak out:
“I tried fighting him off, while yelling at him to stop, but instead of stopping, he began squeezing my neck, attempting to force my head onto his crotch” 

No thanks.

To your point about finding it suspicious that women are only now accusing him, look around you at the "me too" movement. Yea, there are reasons why a woman who was sexually assaulted wouldn't want to speak up, and there is a huge shift to empower women to stand up against those sexual predators. I don't find it suspicious at all that his victims would pick now as a time to point out what an arsehole he is. Again, from the news conference yesterday:

"Mr. Moore warned her that “no one will believe you” if she told anyone about the encounter in his car."

These are children for christ's sake. Men like him do not deserve to be in positions of power.

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