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2018-02-08 12:55 PM

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Subject: Catholic Church and abortion
The Catholic Church Might Excommunicate 14 Pro-Abortion Senators

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/catholic-church-might-excommunicate-14...


Makes sense to me. If you are going to claim to be a catholic then you shouldaudda (good redneck word) support the doctrine of the church.

OTOH, I think this is more of a stunt than a real threat. Seems to me the church would be risking their tax exempt status if they tried to influence politics. OTOOH, the Pope has already blasted Trump for wanting to build a wall. Which, having walked around those huge walls at the Vatican, I find amusing.

OTOOOH, the church out to be free to decide who gets to be a (participating) member and who cannot.

So, full disclosure. I was raised catholic until I was about 11 or 12. My parents had divorced when I was about 8 and 3 or 4 years later my mother remarried....to a protestant. **Gasp** But that was not the issue with the church, they church did not recognize the divorce. My mother had applied for an annulment in the church based on physical and emotional abuse and infidelity but it was rejected. So when she remarried, the church excommunicated her! She could still attend church but could not receive communion or participate in anyway. So she went to her new husband's church and became a protestant...much to the dismay of her entire Italian family....that included 2 aunts that were nuns and an uncle who was a Jesuit. I am a big fan of rituals and kinda miss the Catholic church but after the kicked out my saintly mother, I haven't thought to highly of the catholic church. I consider myself a Baptist now....."five card poker on Saturday night, church on Sunday morning!" ;-)








2018-02-08 1:41 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Hey....teacher......leave those kids alone.

2018-02-08 1:45 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
Originally posted by Left Brain

Hey....teacher......leave those kids alone.





What are you saying? It's just another brick in the wall?
2018-02-08 1:46 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Yeah......all in all.

2018-02-08 3:11 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your meat???

2018-02-08 3:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
Originally posted by dmiller5

How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your meat???




You can. That is why Jack Sprat’s wife’s nickname was Shacky Puddin’.




Edited by Rogillio 2018-02-08 3:30 PM


2018-02-08 8:12 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Originally posted by Rogillio The Catholic Church Might Excommunicate 14 Pro-Abortion Senators https://bigleaguepolitics.com/catholic-church-might-excommunicate-14... Makes sense to me. If you are going to claim to be a catholic then you shouldaudda (good redneck word) support the doctrine of the church. OTOH, I think this is more of a stunt than a real threat. Seems to me the church would be risking their tax exempt status if they tried to influence politics. OTOOH, the Pope has already blasted Trump for wanting to build a wall. Which, having walked around those huge walls at the Vatican, I find amusing. OTOOOH, the church out to be free to decide who gets to be a (participating) member and who cannot. So, full disclosure. I was raised catholic until I was about 11 or 12. My parents had divorced when I was about 8 and 3 or 4 years later my mother remarried....to a protestant. **Gasp** But that was not the issue with the church, they church did not recognize the divorce. My mother had applied for an annulment in the church based on physical and emotional abuse and infidelity but it was rejected. So when she remarried, the church excommunicated her! She could still attend church but could not receive communion or participate in anyway. So she went to her new husband's church and became a protestant...much to the dismay of her entire Italian family....that included 2 aunts that were nuns and an uncle who was a Jesuit. I am a big fan of rituals and kinda miss the Catholic church but after the kicked out my saintly mother, I haven't thought to highly of the catholic church. I consider myself a Baptist now....."five card poker on Saturday night, church on Sunday morning!" ;-)

I've been Catholic all of my life. It's not a very forgiving religion to say the least. Our area recently had a priest leave the priesthood to get married. The Bishop wrote a letter to the congregation that was basically a public shaming. It's all so hypocritical. This priest was taking people's confessions while he was breaking his own vows and the Church's response was not to comfort the congregation but to shame the priest. The church I got married in just had an associate priest busted by the police for meth and child porn

2018-02-08 10:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Don't get me started on that bunch.......



Edited by Left Brain 2018-02-08 10:50 PM
2018-02-09 6:49 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
Like most organizations you have a range of members from the more ecumenical to the hard evangelicals. I wouldn't say this is a story to get worked up over...


The article looks like an opinion piece from a questionable news source. In my opinion, there will be no excommunications. Its one priest who is voicing his opinion as this is an issue close to his heart. Its a free country and he can do that. The article is merely using it and extrapolating on it for its base. To think that the Catholic Diocese would follow through on ex communicating a round of political leaders is absurd. There are Church Laws that lead to automatic excommunication for having an abortion, heresy, etc.....but not for making laws that take the hands of government off the decision for others. We are free human beings, and this rests with the individual.

Ex Communication is not something that is used on a whim to isolate faithful members. The Church prefers to use the teaching of Christ, and let the conscience of each individual lead their actions.

I'm Catholic, I converted a few years ago from the Anglican Communion. Going through the Catechism I had issues directly with some of the teachings. And I made it known. And the priest said "okay. its okay to have different voices." Their role is to be spiritual leaders, not rigid oppressors over how you express your faith.

A final note...excommunication...in its rare instances...is not necessarily permanent. It can be an agreed end between the Church and the parishoner if it ever comes to that point. (You don't just up and excommunicate someone...usually there is a history and a number of events that leads upto it. There are certain acts which the church considers sins that do lead to automatic excommunications...ordaining a Bishop without authorization, etc.) But its also something that is worked towards healing and repairing so that the person who is not in communion with the Catholic Faith will stop their evil actions and actually return to the Church.

The article above looks like in a politically bias "news" site. This story isnt news...its church politics more than anything....

Some easy reads to know more about excommunication:

http://catholicstraightanswers.com/what-is-excommunication/

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2008/01/25/am-i-excommunicated/


2018-02-09 6:53 AM
in reply to: TheCrownsOwn

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
ahhh... as a committed agnostic I will bow out of this thread.
2018-02-09 10:54 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Originally posted by Oysterboy ahhh... as a committed agnostic I will bow out of this thread.

Hey, your opinion matters too. 

I'm a Bible believing Christian myself and I probably have as many issues with the Catholic church as you do.  lol



2018-02-12 8:17 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy ahhh... as a committed agnostic I will bow out of this thread.

Hey, your opinion matters too. 

I'm a Bible believing Christian myself and I probably have as many issues with the Catholic church as you do.  lol




But....but...but he is agnostic and by definition does not have an opinion? ;-)

OK, cheap shot. I went for the easy shot.

The issue in not about Christianity or even the Catholic church. The issues are, IMO, 1. Should the church hold their members accountable for how they vote on issues that oppose their church doctrine and 2. If you run as a "Catholic" and get Catholic votes because you are a Catholic shouldn't you got in keeping with Catholic doctrine?

I have read that the split on abortion today is roughly the same as it was 50 years ago when Roe v. Wade legalized abortion. I have also read that as medical science advances, support for abortion decreases.

At any rate, it appears the 'abortion debate' will be with us for a long time.
2018-02-12 7:56 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy ahhh... as a committed agnostic I will bow out of this thread.

Hey, your opinion matters too. 

I'm a Bible believing Christian myself and I probably have as many issues with the Catholic church as you do.  lol

But....but...but he is agnostic and by definition does not have an opinion? ;-) OK, cheap shot. I went for the easy shot. The issue in not about Christianity or even the Catholic church. The issues are, IMO, 1. Should the church hold their members accountable for how they vote on issues that oppose their church doctrine and 2. If you run as a "Catholic" and get Catholic votes because you are a Catholic shouldn't you got in keeping with Catholic doctrine? I have read that the split on abortion today is roughly the same as it was 50 years ago when Roe v. Wade legalized abortion. I have also read that as medical science advances, support for abortion decreases. At any rate, it appears the 'abortion debate' will be with us for a long time.

1. We had a retired older priest visit to perform mass right before the election. Our parish priest had never addressed the voting issue, just put some flyers in the weekly bulletin that explained the candidates stance on different issues. The visiting priest was point blank - you vote your "Catholic conscious" or don't take communion. My husband and I sat there and looked at each other like did he really just say that?! You can't tell people how they should vote in church! We said later that our priests didn't want to do the dirty work so they brought in the heavy artillery with this retired priest. There was no beating around the bush with this guy "being a Catholic Christian is not easy, You have a responsibility." 

2. Ideally yes but this is politics. I think most people realize it's all snake oil so expectations (at least for me) are pretty low. 

 

2018-02-14 10:08 AM
in reply to: trigal38

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Subject: RE: Catholic Church and abortion
Originally posted by trigal38

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy ahhh... as a committed agnostic I will bow out of this thread.

Hey, your opinion matters too. 

I'm a Bible believing Christian myself and I probably have as many issues with the Catholic church as you do.  lol

But....but...but he is agnostic and by definition does not have an opinion? ;-) OK, cheap shot. I went for the easy shot. The issue in not about Christianity or even the Catholic church. The issues are, IMO, 1. Should the church hold their members accountable for how they vote on issues that oppose their church doctrine and 2. If you run as a "Catholic" and get Catholic votes because you are a Catholic shouldn't you got in keeping with Catholic doctrine? I have read that the split on abortion today is roughly the same as it was 50 years ago when Roe v. Wade legalized abortion. I have also read that as medical science advances, support for abortion decreases. At any rate, it appears the 'abortion debate' will be with us for a long time.

1. We had a retired older priest visit to perform mass right before the election. Our parish priest had never addressed the voting issue, just put some flyers in the weekly bulletin that explained the candidates stance on different issues. The visiting priest was point blank - you vote your "Catholic conscious" or don't take communion. My husband and I sat there and looked at each other like did he really just say that?! You can't tell people how they should vote in church! We said later that our priests didn't want to do the dirty work so they brought in the heavy artillery with this retired priest. There was no beating around the bush with this guy "being a Catholic Christian is not easy, You have a responsibility." 

2. Ideally yes but this is politics. I think most people realize it's all snake oil so expectations (at least for me) are pretty low. 

 




It bothers me that this is happening. We've had priests and speakers talk about this in the church. But it has always been "this is what we are doing, your welcome to particiapte as your time and conscience leads you." For a religious institution to jump into the frey of politics is a two edged sword. It can isolate parishioners on isolated issues....robbing them of a home to practise their faith..and create issues within and outside the church in the greater public.

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2017-03-22 2:10 PM tuwood