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IM and post-17 hrs
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 2006-10-23 11:04 AM |
Regular  408  Rhode Island |  Subject: IM and post-17 hrsWhat happens with the people still on the course after 17 hours? I know they get an official DNF, but do the Ironman people drive around and offer to pick them up, or tell them if they continue, they're completely on their own, or do some people stick around and support them? Or does it depend on how close they are? It'd be pretty cold to make someone quit at mil 25 or so, but if they're walking at mile 11 at midnight, that might be a different story. Has anyone volunteered all the way to the end and seen what happens? |
| 2006-10-23 11:06 AM in reply to: #575474 |
Queen BTich 12411  , | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs If the racer is very close to the finish at the 17 hour cutoff, the announcer and officials will stay, but they have to be really close. It is still an official DNF though. The crowd will stay and cheer though. If they are not close to finishing, they are picked off the course. |
| 2006-10-23 11:08 AM in reply to: #575474 |
Extreme Veteran 532  South Park, PA | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs generally if they are within 10-15mins of crossing the line and they are in good shape (not about to fall over) they will let them finish. they do let them know that they have missed the cutoff. i feel badly for the folks that have to be pulled from the course and equally as bad for the folks that have to do it.
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| 2006-10-23 11:12 AM in reply to: #575474 |
Extreme Veteran 498 Montana | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs I had tears in my eyes when they told those two older men at Kona that they hadn't made the swim cut off time. And when the Hoyts came in too... that was only after the swim too...imagine 23 miles in to the marathon and having to tell someone they didn't make it |
| 2006-10-23 11:44 AM in reply to: #575488 |
Regular 408 Rhode Island | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs willow - 2006-10-23 12:12 PM imagine 23 miles in to the marathon and having to tell someone they didn't make it I'm sure its really difficult to tell someone that they will DNF and even worse if you have to pull them off the course, but it can't come as a surprise to them at that point. They probably have a watch on, people have been telling them what time it is. So I'm sure its a disappointment, but not a surprise. |
| 2006-10-23 11:51 AM in reply to: #575477 |
| Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs If they are not close to finishing, they are picked off the course. I have this unfornuate image of guys riding around in the backs of pickups with rifles..... For a first hand accoutn of someone who missed the run cutoff at IMMOO, read http://www.throughth3wall.com/ SHe's a good writer, if not a little over the top,. but the race report (in 4 or 5 sections) is pretty awesome |
| 2006-10-23 1:21 PM in reply to: #575543 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs ChrisM - 2006-10-23 11:51 AM If they are not close to finishing, they are picked off the course. I have this unfornuate image of guys riding around in the backs of pickups with rifles..... That is funny since Ultra marathons tend to be very strict about the finishing times. One guy has his back turned to the finish with a gun in hand and when the gun goes off if your not past the line you are not a finisher. There are people within 100 yards and miss it. Frustrating at 49.9 miles or so I am sure. Milwaukee is strict about there finishing time but 2 years ago people were within .1 or .2 and I think they kept the clock going. I would like to see that happened since well I would die if I came so close and failed. It sucks but you know its going to happen so if your not going to make it but your close you have to decide weather you want to finish or just stop. Sometimes its best to throw in the towel if you are too injured to safely go on. |
| 2006-10-23 1:46 PM in reply to: #575543 |
Expert 1169 Sherman Oaks, CA | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs ChrisM - 2006-10-23 11:51 AM If they are not close to finishing, they are picked off the course. I have this unfornuate image of guys riding around in the backs of pickups with rifles..... For a first hand accoutn of someone who missed the run cutoff at IMMOO, read http://www.throughth3wall.com/ SHe's a good writer, if not a little over the top,. but the race report (in 4 or 5 sections) is pretty awesome I listen to her podcasts (Tri Greek). She also spoke about what happened. There was uncertainty that there was a cut-off at the half-marathon point and I think she assumed it was all about the 17 hours. And then she found out there were cut-offs on the course and was too far behind. Sounded like brutal conditions. But she signed up for 2007. Cheers |
| 2006-10-23 3:50 PM in reply to: #575474 |
| Member 39 Chandler, AZ | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs I know that IMAZ had cutoff times for each lap of the run (there were three laps). I don't think anyone was left out on the course at midnight, the last person finished with something like 3 min to spare. |
| 2006-10-23 3:53 PM in reply to: #575474 |
| Crystal Lake, IL | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs My first thought was that people would fight the idea of being pulled off the course but I'm thinking the mental knowledge that you didn't make it combined with the physical exhaustion of having been at it for 17 hours would make it hard to put up much of a fight. I feel bad for anyone who has to go through it and hope that if I ever do I can use it as motivation to come back stronger the next time. |
| 2006-10-23 4:17 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Extreme Veteran 355 Kuna, Idaho | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs It would be an emotional let down to not finish a race out side of an injury. You spent all that time training and to DNF by time would be the worst. |
| 2006-10-23 4:30 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs question though in a race with 17 hour limit would you call yourself an IM if you finished it in 17:01, 17:15, or even 18:00? Is the time limit really apart of the I finished process or it more there for the official and volunteers so they are not stuck there all day because a guy wants to finish it in 24 hours? |
| 2006-10-23 4:34 PM in reply to: #576009 |
| Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs chirunner134 - 2006-10-23 2:30 PM question though in a race with 17 hour limit would you call yourself an IM if you finished it in 17:01, 17:15, or even 18:00? Is the time limit really apart of the I finished process or it more there for the official and volunteers so they are not stuck there all day because a guy wants to finish it in 24 hours? Personally, I would not unless you have an official finish time. the times above are a DNF. Trust me, give me long enough, and I'll go out and do 140.6 right now. Doesn't make me an Ironman finisher though. |
| 2006-10-23 7:46 PM in reply to: #576013 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs ChrisM - 2006-10-23 4:34 PM Personally, I would not unless you have an official finish time. the times above are a DNF. Trust me, give me long enough, and I'll go out and do 140.6 right now. Doesn't make me an Ironman finisher though. I do agree with it atleast mostly. Prime example that really bugged me. I am a slow marathoner just completed my 7th marathon. I could not run cleveland because of a injury but I was there because of my running clubs yearly bus trip. They had a training program for the 7th and 8th graders they were given 11 weeks to run 25 miles and then they finished the last 1.2 miles during the cleveland marathon. The annoucer kept mentioning how they were all going to get finisher medals and be able to say that they ran a marathon this weekend and can always say they are marathoners and that this weekend they finished a marathon. I am a big fan of BOP and I like courses that are open for a long time since given more time does not make always easier for a person to complete it. It jsut gives more people a chance to complete it. even at 17 hours I leart this weekend is possible even for some pretty big people. Guy about my size who did 2 of them this year and I beat him in the chicago marathon by about 20 mins. |
| 2006-10-23 7:49 PM in reply to: #576009 |
Master 1938 La Crosse | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs chirunner134 - 2006-10-23 5:30 PM question though in a race with 17 hour limit would you call yourself an IM if you finished it in 17:01, 17:15, or even 18:00? Is the time limit really apart of the I finished process or it more there for the official and volunteers so they are not stuck there all day because a guy wants to finish it in 24 hours? Well, by that logic, you might as well just finish 22 miles on the run. I mean, you've finished MOST of it, right? Say you're at mile 23 at the 17 hour point: you're pretty much there, right? So might as well just call yourself an Ironman. No, I don't think that's right. 2.4 miles, 112 miles, 26.2 miles, in under 17 hours. That's what it is; there's nothing less that is an Ironman. If you finish in over 17 hours, or complete less of a distance, you have done an amazing thing; you've covered a lot of ground, and done more than many other humans. But you haven't done an Ironman, you've done something else -- a really long race. The time limit is certainly part of it. You can go for a long swim, bike and run anytime you want; if you want to be an Ironman, do the distance in 17 hours or less. |
| 2006-10-23 8:03 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs Well if it a requiremet then by all means yes you should do it in that time. I did not know if IM always at a certain time you had to finish by or it is up the Race Director. Just like I disagree with the people who did 1 3.29 mile loop in an 8 hour race to be hey I completed the 8 hour race. Sure there is nothing illegal about only doing 1 lap and then resting for the next 7+ hours but its not what the race is about either. In an 8 hour I think should complete atleast 26.3 miles to be a finisher of that 8 hour ultra marathon. If USAT says all race be done by 17 then 17 it is. no more and no less. I am a big fan of race requirements. thing I dislike about so many tris are no set distances. they are close alot of times but still. I like things to be a little more uniformed. |
| 2006-10-23 8:19 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Extreme Veteran 557 | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs At IMFL last year they said there was one woman left on the course and that she was going to be about 5-10 min after 12:00. At 12:00 Mike Reilly announced that she was still about 20-25 min out and that everyone should stay and cheer for her. She came in around 12:40 and almost the entire place was broken down and packed up. About 20, maybe 25 people stayed to cheer her to the finish. I saw that they did take a "finsher's photo"of her. She did have a bike escort with her right up until the finish. |
| 2006-10-23 8:38 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs I do feel for the people who are in siight of the line and have no problem leaving the time open for them. IM is mostly defined by distance and not time but I do think that time limits are important. Honestly most people would have troubles completing an IM in 1 week let alone 17 hours. |
| 2006-10-23 8:47 PM in reply to: #576325 |
Regular 408 Rhode Island | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs chirunner134 - 2006-10-23 9:38 PM I do feel for the people who are in siight of the line and have no problem leaving the time open for them. IM is mostly defined by distance and not time but I do think that time limits are important. Honestly most people would have troubles completing an IM in 1 week let alone 17 hours. Ok, but what about the guy just a few feet behind him? Will you let him finish too? If so, then what about the guy just a few feet behind him, is he allowed to finish? And so on. At what point do you finally look at someone and say "sorry, you're not a finisher"? The IM people decided that is 17:00:00. They're not going to stop you from covering the 140.6, but you're not going to get all the accoutrements that come with someone who does it in under 17 hours. |
| 2006-10-23 9:22 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs patrick I do agree that when do you cut it off is really hard. kinda like the teacher that rounds up to the nearest whole number maybe 92.5 an A over 93 percent.. The thing about it is that at 92.4 you are still .6 off so you still did not make it your just being nice to the people who are close. Ideally also that you should not have that many people so close to 17 hours closing time. Honestly though an IM is not about helping people getting in motion but to do someting crazy. so 17:00:00 is not bad at all to be strict. its more about having a crazy elite status. If you want to have that then you need to abid by the rules. |
| 2006-10-24 12:57 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Pro 3883 Woodstock,GA | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs For Pete's sake people you have 17 HOURS to finish. Think about that......17 HOURS. The swim cutoff is 2:20min, Bike Cutoff is @ 10:30 mins, that means you have 6:30 hours to do the marathon. Breaking these times down Swim: 2:20 min =3:20 (ish) per 100m Bike: 8:10 min=13.71 mph Run: 6:30 min=14:48 min/mile Now this is assuming no times for transitions but I think you get my point. You have to be extremely slow not to finish under 17 hours. IMO if you aren't able to keep this pace then you should reconsider doing an IM until you are in better shape and more trained. This kind of ties in also with my constant postings in the Irondistace section about a gradual build to the IM distance. |
| 2006-10-24 1:02 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs with a 17 hour time limit how can I sell my couch to im in only 16 weeks product on infomericals? |
| 2006-10-24 1:06 PM in reply to: #575474 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs Which is why Mike brought up the point about making it a cutoff at 14 - 15 hours ....... I don't know, as an athlete striving for their best the 17 hour mark means nothing to me at all. If I'm that far off the back, I'll drop out because it means I have an injury of some sort and shouldn't even be on the course ........ But there are people who have worked their azz off just as hard as me to be able to barely break that 17 mark. A "Midnight" cut off just sounds all cool and ceremonial. But I think the time is really arbitrary. |
| 2006-10-25 1:21 AM in reply to: #575534 |
| Expert 680 NC Illinois | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs I'm sure its really difficult to tell someone that they will DNF and even worse if you have to pull them off the course, but it can't come as a surprise to them at that point. Given the pace time one could use to achieve a 16:59:59 finish (2h swim, 8h bike, and 7h run), that's ~3min/100y, ~14mph, ~15min/mile ... except for the elderly, challenged, etc ... pulling them off the course could very well be a blessing. I think the arguement that if you're still out there after 17h, maybe you shouldn't still be out there (for your own good) might have some merit ... without being cruel, elite, snobby, demeaning, or any of that. I support anyone that gives it a go ... but so many people have made the bike cutoff and walked the entire marathon ... that 17h is plenty of time, unless you've had health/physical complications on the course, which goes back to my first point about having a decision made for you that's likely in your best interest. Some of us are too dumb/determined to make a decision in that situation. |
| 2006-10-25 6:01 AM in reply to: #577177 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: IM and post-17 hrs Rocket Man - 2006-10-24 12:57 PM For Pete's sake people you have 17 HOURS to finish. Think about that......17 HOURS. The swim cutoff is 2:20min, Bike Cutoff is @ 10:30 mins, that means you have 6:30 hours to do the marathon. Breaking these times down Swim: 2:20 min =3:20 (ish) per 100m Bike: 8:10 min=13.71 mph Run: 6:30 min=14:48 min/mile Now this is assuming no times for transitions but I think you get my point. You have to be extremely slow not to finish under 17 hours. IMO if you aren't able to keep this pace then you should reconsider doing an IM until you are in better shape and more trained. This kind of ties in also with my constant postings in the Irondistace section about a gradual build to the IM distance.
Thank You!!! My thoughts exactly! At 17 hrs the bar is low enough. If you can't finish in 17 hrs you are probably risking your health. Take your DNF, go home and re-evaluate your training program because obviously it wasn't robust enough and come back next year and try again. ~Mike |
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