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2007-06-07 8:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
Daremo - 2007-06-07 5:55 AM

amiine - 2007-06-06 8:23 PM  My OP was more directed to beginners (which is the bulk of this site) as a tongue in chick post suggesting that someone running .......

Dude!!!  This is a beginners site and a family one!!  There will be none of that here on a public forum!!

LMAO, that's more fun anyway


2007-06-07 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
SECOND RUN REVIEW

"Does the Honeymoon Continue?"

Run Data- 1:00:00, 8.51 miles, 7:03 pace, 148HR
This run was a repeat of my last run on Tuesday, same route and same HR. My pace was better by :05/mile and I covered an additional .12miles in the same 1 hour. You know what that means? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!! Way too many variables to draw any conclusions, both internal and external. Although my HR was the exact same, the temps were noticeably cooler and that alone can account for the pick up in pace. As I am a sample of one, it's going to take some time before I feel I can comment on weather or not these shoe's actually make me a faster runner.

Todays run started the same as Tuesday, the shoe's feel flat and my perception was that I was working hard yet my HR told a different tale. I think I can definately attribute this mis-perception on my part to the Newton's themselves. The lug acctuator system built under the forefoot is very different in design form my Nike Haywards. When I land on my forefoot in the Nike's, due to their relatively generour cushioning, there is a natural tendency to have an immediate recoil. That recoil wants to bounce you up but as long as you hold form and push backwrads, you impart momentum in the correct direction: forward. The Newton's, and I felt this in my first review, have no upward recoil. Instead, as per their own description, the lug system loads under pressure and release stored energy forward, which is good, but I don't feel it because I keep expecting my little Nike bounce!

As the run progressed, again I would check my cadence every 5-10min and was very steady at 90. As the miles wound down, again I became very aware that I felt very good technically and pretty fresh. It's been about 2 hours since I finished and I had a chance to stretch. My hamstrings felt a bit tighter than normal, and a bit in my glut's. I need to acclimate myself a bit with the shoe's, but I am also trying to be sensetive to any new ache's or oains which might flare up and to report them. These two runs are on a concrete rec path, and that always causes some soreness for me.

Long run this weekend out on the roads should be very interesting!

Edited by bryancd 2007-06-07 12:25 PM
2007-06-08 12:16 PM
in reply to: #831160

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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's

PKKC - 2007-06-05 4:15 PM I don't mind a little flash here and there, but I am only interested in how these shoes perform. Is there something to them? Do they actually give you some added benefit? I am really excited that Bryan has a chance to run in them. It will be a TRUE test on how they perform from someone who already is a pretty damn good triathlete.

  shouldnt it be for a bop athlete and a heel striker?

2007-06-08 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
Yes, for someone with poor technique, they could help overcome that, although I would suggest you are better off learning proper form, regardless of the shoe design. You would be a better runner overall because if it.
2007-06-08 1:09 PM
in reply to: #829543

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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I just got the shoes yesterday, and wore them last night. I dont think that I could say yet if its helped my problem, too much use of quads, and knees. I developed patellar tendonitis early in the season from being quad heavy, and I did notice a difference in the way i was running in these yesterday, but how/will they help? I did 5 miles in them last night mixed concrete and trail, and this weekend I will take them on a 9 or 10 miler, and see how they do. I could feel more muscles being used that dotn seem to be in my normal running shoes. If that takes away some of the brunt off the knees, ill be happy

I jumped on the Nike Free wagon last year, and loved my decision I bought them to use for shorter runs, and ended up loving them so much and they alleviated some pain i had, so i stuck with them for the season. Come fall i was training more run specific for half marathons and thought i needed more padding, so i went to some asics. I bought and returned a couple of pairs of shoes after a run or two and finall y found some asics that I liked. I have a pretty natural gait, and if i get a shoe that restricts it at all, Im annoyed, and I end up with pain normally. I developed patellar tendonitis in my Asics. I cant say they were the Asics, but probably a combo of bad running, overuse, and the shoes. I wish I would have stuck to the Nike Frees a little more.

So last year nike frees were the solution. So I decided to try the newtons now this year, hoping that a little more cushioning will work for my long runs, and i can go back to nike frees on the shorter runs. We'll see how this works. Ill repost again after my long run this weekend.

Edited by kellc09 2007-06-08 1:13 PM
2007-06-08 2:11 PM
in reply to: #836136

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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's

bryancd - 2007-06-08 12:32 PM Yes, for someone with poor technique, they could help overcome that, although I would suggest you are better off learning proper form, regardless of the shoe design. You would be a better runner overall because if it.

You see, that's one of the claims I have a problem with. Unless the shoes make your leading foot land in an exaggerated awkward position I can't see it happening and if that is how it works, that might either cause injure and/or it will take a long adaptation process in which I believe it would be foolish for athlete to decide doing the switch in the middle of the racing season. Also, heel strikers usually have that style of running due to 1) running slow 2) running with a long stride and/or 3) running with a low cadence. Just by shorten your stride, increasing your cadence or both you can improve your running form and the progression will be less aggressive allowing your legs to adapt in a friendlier manner.

Finally as I pointed before becoming a forefoot striker is NOT necessarily the most efficient way to run and it is not recommendable for everyone.

PS. I know you are not suggesting they do work or not. But I wanted to point that out because for the BOP runner it might be a bit misleading to go by your review as you probably have already good running mechanics and the actual experience from a heel striker, 10 min/mile BOP might be completely different.


2007-06-08 6:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I hear you Jorge, and I think I have gone to great lenghts to be very even handed about this. In my last post, my suggestion was for a BOP'er or someone with incorrect form to NOT rely on a shoe which claims to correct that but instead, learn to run properly regardless of the shoe. Not one of my posts suggest this is a panacea for running ills. I'm just relating my own experince in them. I wish you could see these in person. They don't exagerate foorfoot landing per se, their design simpy lends to doing that. I have no idea what would happen if someone who was a real overstrider put these on and went for a run. I would imagine there would be a lot f short term and possibly long term issues for them. Newton's web site even suggests this.
2007-06-09 6:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
http://www.newtonrunning.com/run_better.phpif this page is any indication of the "research" this company does then it should give one pause. Just look at the flash movies on the page and you can see for yourself.


Poor bugger looks like that heel is coming down first. Shame he never learned how to run.

2007-06-11 7:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I'll be posting more on my thoughts later this week, but Katja Schumacher took first place at the Florida 70.3 and Badman just won Eagleman...both run in Newtons.

Edited by bryancd 2007-06-11 7:07 PM
2007-06-11 7:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
bryancd - 2007-06-11 7:05 PM I'll be posting more on my thoughts later this week, but Katja Schumacher took first place at the Florida 70.3 and Badman just won Eagleman...both run in Newtons.
Also Alexander won FL 70.3, Potts Oceanside70.3 and Macca Hawaii & Baja 70.3, and all 3 were NOT wearing Newtons... IOW, that means absolutely nothing
2007-06-11 8:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I don't recall saying that it means anything. People, chill out. There are a ton of prducts marketed to us which make all sorts of claims. Some we seem willing to accept, others we don't. Jorge, you have become so biased it's getting silly. Let me just continue posting my review, it's not up to you to carry the torch of scepticism. Relax, my man. I am VERY capable of making thoughtful observations and posting them, take it or leave it.


2007-06-11 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
Maybe he owns stock in Nike or Asics
2007-06-11 9:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's


Edited by TH3_FRB 2007-06-11 9:04 PM
2007-06-11 9:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's


Edited by TH3_FRB 2007-06-11 9:03 PM
2007-06-11 9:17 PM
in reply to: #839982

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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
bryancd - 2007-06-11 8:57 PM I don't recall saying that it means anything. People, chill out. There are a ton of prducts marketed to us which make all sorts of claims. Some we seem willing to accept, others we don't. Jorge, you have become so biased it's getting silly. Let me just continue posting my review, it's not up to you to carry the torch of scepticism. Relax, my man. I am VERY capable of making thoughtful observations and posting them, take it or leave it.
huh? You obviously have it wrong... you posted something making reference to some Pros results wearing newtons and I just pointed out it means absolutely nothing. You are welcome to interpret my post in anyway you want, it really doesn’t make any difference to me, but if you are really presenting an objective review, then keep it that way no?
2007-06-11 9:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
TH3_FRB - 2007-06-11 9:00 PM Maybe he owns stock in Nike or Asics
Adidas actually...


2007-06-11 9:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I have been nothing but nuetral in my comments. I'm not sponsored by them and I have no vetsed interest in their product. I was simply sent them and I am using them and posting my thoughts, take it or leave it. What I find curious is the hostility towards a new product when so many others seem to be given a much more fair shake. You haven't even taken a step in these and yet you argue that it's all crap. Thus I say chill out or try them so you can comment.
I never said they won because their shoe's I was just reporting a story, Period.

Edited by bryancd 2007-06-11 9:35 PM
2007-06-12 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's

I have been nothing but nuetral in my comments. >>> For most part yes, but your post making reference to 2 pros having good results on them didn’t seem like it even though you were ‘just’ reporting a story. uummm btw, I did too!!!

What I find curious is the hostility towards a new product when so many others seem to be given a much more fair shake. You haven't even taken a step in these and yet you argue that it's all crap. >>> People are free to have different opinions no? And please don’t twist my posts because I never said this shoes were crap, I simply stated that I am skeptic of their claims which by the tone of some of your posts in this thread and ST I am getting the sense you take it quite personal.

Thus I say chill out or try them so you can comment >>> thanks but no thanks, plus why try them when we have ‘objective’ reviews like yours to provide info You know if you post in a public forum you should expect some posters to agree or disagree with you and you should not take it personal...

2007-06-12 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
Well hopefully the post can get back to actual reviews of the shoes, so heres a report after my second go in them. A 10 miler in them on saturday.

Calves were a little more sore from utilizing different muscles, took a couple of miles to get in the groove, and no knee pain that night or next day as I tend to have. Im defenitely going to keep using them and see if this holds up over the long run. Im also going to get a new pair of nike frees to use for some shorter training. My Asics are officially put aside for now though. Of course they may not work for everyone, Ive tried numerous shoes at the suggestion of others and not had them fit my foot properly at all, but I do like these and nike frees. Im glad i took a shot

Edited by kellc09 2007-06-12 8:09 AM
2007-06-12 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I don't take it personally, you know I'm a thick skinned SlowTwicht fighter at heart

I welcome criticism and discussion of the product and I have not given these any sort of endorsement whatsoever. What I was trying to say, albiet poorly, is that I find it curious that this particular product has created such strong initial opinions. We seem to be able to accept changes in wetsuit or bike technolgy year in and year out so why should this be any different? Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, maybe it has limited applications for some people.

It might be helpful to review the information on Newtons web site, as you don't actually have shoe's to test (leave that to me), and present an argument why the people who have designed these have it wrong, or right, whichever. Let's put the discussion back on track of the bio-mechanics behind their claims and execution of their product and why it is sound or not.

By thew way, I did a 13.5 mile run this weekend and again, felt no appreciable difference during the session with the exception of they feel very good on hills and seem to help me keep up a high turnover at the end of the run as compared to my Nike's. I ddi feel a little tight yesterday and I am curious to see if I feel good this morning on my run. Stay tuned and keep the posts coming!
2007-06-12 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
THIRD RUN REVIEW

"Another Week, Nothing New"

Run Data- 1:00:00, 8.35 miles, 7:11 pace, 148HR
Same run I did twice last week. One of the benefits of training with HR for as long as I have is that despite all other variables being out of your control, I'm a champ at managing my HR. I f I need to average 148bpm fore 60min, I can nail it every time. That's good for consitancy in my review of these, but it's still only one variable. I'm begining to feel that, all things being equal, at this distance there are no appreciable differences between any good running shoes, at least for me. I don't feel any better or any worse, although I do enjoy certain aspect of these short, fast, flat runs in the Netwons as opposed to my Nike's. They do ebncourage a nice fast turnover and good forward purpulsion as opposed to excessive up and down. That feeling is very tangible. They do perfrom great on hills, as I have said. 8 miles, though, is just not proving one way or another any true benefit or disadvantage, so unlesss soemthing extraordinary happens, I'm going to wait until I get into IM distance training next month to continue my comments.

For the cost, for a good runner competing in short course, you are probably just as well off with a traditional racing shoe or light trainer.


2007-06-12 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I've been watching this thread and was anticipating your thoughts. It has been fun watching you and Amiine go back and forth.

For what Newton is marketing and the cost of the shoes I would have hoped there would have been a noticable difference between today's "conventional" training/racing shoes. I would be kidding myself if I said I wasn't interested in the Newton's, but the realization of having 2-3 pairs of shoes that I already know I like vs. one pair of Newton's doesn't seem like a wise decision.

I will keep following this post and see what your thoughts are after some more training runs.

I'm interested in seeing how your recovery is while running in the Newton's.

Thanks again Bryan and I'm looking forward to your adventure in Hawaii.
2007-06-12 1:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I just wanted to echo what PKKC said - it's been interested to read your review, and I definitely appreciate your efforts to make it an objective review and to put any expectations or biases aside.

I am working on improving my foot strike, especially on my right side, and definitely found the shoes intriguing. However, I am beginning to see and feel results just by focusing on form and drills using my regular neutral trainers, and easing back into volume and intensity.

I'll happily interpret your review as more support for smart training versus fancy gear, and I'll be interested to see what other impressions you have.

Cheers!
2007-06-17 5:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
OK, I just wanted to bump this thread for a final wrap up from me. I ran the Newton's for 2 weeks now, including a long run last Sunday of 13.6 miles. I ran twice during the week, each 8.3 miles just as I had before with no appreciable difference in feel or speed. Today I did the exact same long run as last week. I left at the same time in the morning, I was coming off of a 65 mile ride the day before in both cases and my average HR was within 1 bpm of each other. The only difference is that today I wore my Haywards. The two runs were comlpleted with 18 second of each other over a 13.6 mile run.

In conclussion, for me, the Newtons don't seem to offer any specific advanatge over my Haywards and I find the additional padding and comfort of the Haywards superior. Also, the Newtons are already showing appreciable signs of wear in a very short time.

For the cost and efficacy, I am going back to Nike.
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2007-06-17 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Newton Running Shoe's
I'm glad to be reading your posts and getting some valuable info on this thread.  Thank you for writing your reviews
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