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2007-08-23 12:13 PM

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Coach
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Subject: Strenght Training to increase bike power
After my not so fast bike split at Tman I decided to incorporate a few days of strenght training to my plan. Share your secrets to increase cycling power...


2007-08-23 12:43 PM
in reply to: #937723

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

amiine - 2007-08-23 12:13 PM After my not so fast bike split at Tman I decided to incorporate a few days of strenght training to my plan. Share your secrets to increase cycling power...

Is this some kind of trap for an ambush?

2007-08-23 12:50 PM
in reply to: #937723

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2007-08-23 12:50 PM
in reply to: #937723

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Edited by JeepFleeb 2007-08-23 12:50 PM
2007-08-23 12:52 PM
in reply to: #937723

Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

You should know me by now Jorge ...... I'm all about just getting out there and riding, and no one has ever called me slow as a climber.

I would suggest incorporating some hillier routes on your rides and once you get to know them pick a section where you can attack the hills, preferably out of the saddle, for 2 - 5 minutes each time.  I'm talking Zone 4/5 efforts there.  Then spin on the downhills/flats for recovery.

If can't get to the hills, then do the stoplight to stoplight sprints.  Just pick a point down the road and go ballz out for it.  These types of workouts work better with a group or another rider or two.

Stay out of the weight room or I'll never talk to you again ..... Tongue out

2007-08-23 12:59 PM
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2007-08-23 1:02 PM
in reply to: #937723

Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
PEDs.  Innocent
2007-08-23 1:06 PM
in reply to: #937723

Champion
6056
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Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
Jorge, didn't you forget to use the sarcasm font?

Or did Lou Ferrigno have you in a headlock when he made you type that?
2007-08-23 1:07 PM
in reply to: #937723

Elite
4235
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Spring, TX
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
For those of you who do beleive in spending time in the weight room, do you focus the muscle building during your "offseason" or do you do the strength training year round?

I've cut my strength training down from about 5-6 hours a week to maybe 2 at the most and replaced all of that with riding and running. It's made a huge difference, but during the winter I'm planning on hitting the weights again to build a little more strength. Smart or stupid?
2007-08-23 1:15 PM
in reply to: #937723

Expert
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Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
I'm a slight asthmatic living in Minnesota -- when it is 10 degrees out in January, I have no choice but to go indoors to a healthclub, or risk having a nasty cough for months.

My "trick" has been to find the empty spinning room at my club, put on my cycling shoes, and go nuts. Fast, slow, heavy pressure, light, all out at times, etc. Great when followed by a treadmill run. Considering mixing in some plyometrics this year to keep the fast twitch muscles alert.

Contrary to popular belief, it is only nasty in Minnesota from Jan - Mar. The other 9 months, you can generally workout outside. But for those 3 months, I need to have some dose of strength training. 60 minute treadmill runs suck!
2007-08-23 1:31 PM
in reply to: #937820

Champion
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Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
OrbeaMan - 2007-08-23 1:07 PM

For those of you who do beleive in spending time in the weight room, do you focus the muscle building during your "offseason" or do you do the strength training year round?



I certainly do more ST in the off-season. I tried to continue it throughout the ramp-up in SBR for my first HIM, but there just weren't enough hours in the day. Since I gave it up, I do feel my strength has decreased considerably and I've noticed a drop in my swimming performance. Others will argue with me, but I do think there's a correlation. One of my hardcore runner friends swears he is not as fast over distances up to HM without consistent ST.


2007-08-23 1:43 PM
in reply to: #937723

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
There's a guy on SlowTwitch with a sig line that says it all:;

Hills, they're what's for dinner!

Edited by bryancd 2007-08-23 1:43 PM
2007-08-23 1:46 PM
in reply to: #937723

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Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
I'm more of an expert in rock climbing training but I think some of the same rules apply to cycling. I'd avoid the weight room unless you are there to train antagonist muscles. There is no reason to train your sport-specific muscles in a weight room. You're just wasting time and possibly adding uneeded bulk. In any strength-to-weight ratio sport that is not such a good idea.

I'm anti weight training UNLESS you are adding weight in a sport specific fashion. The best way to get better at cycling, running, climbing, whatever is to cycle, run, or climb. However, if you want to focus your training on increasing power then I'd design an exercise on your bike to do that. With cycling I'd think the best way to improve power is to ride hard up short steep hills, rest until you get back to a resting heart rate, and repeat. Keep going until you hit muscular failure. If you want to hit failure faster then try adding weight to your or your bike while you are cranking up the hill. For climbing we do what's called hyper-gravity training (basically just wear a diver's weight belt while climbing) and focus on doing the same explosive movements over and over again. You can do the same with cycling by putting on a weight belt or just add some weight to a pack and ride up the steepest hill you can find.

Now if you really want to increase power then try this. One trick that climbers use to increase power is to mix two exercises back to back. You want one exercise that involves powerful movement that you do really slowly - then you follow it with a really explosive exercise where you are using momentum more than muscle to perform the motion. The idea is that by doing the workout back to back you are actually able to construct more efficient neural pathways for operating those specific muscles - i.e your muscles "learn" how to perform more efficiently. I can't remember off the top of my head but this training is based on a study that may have even been performed on cyclist. The training is called complex training and there are multiple papers on it but I wasn't riding when I first heard about it and started using it for climbing.

With cycling maybe the way to mirror that would be to find a really steep hill. Then get on your big ring and really muscle your way up that hill slowly and powerfully always keeping control over your muscles. When you reach the half way point, drop to your small ring and sprint as fast as you can up the rest of the hill. When you reach the top rest for at least three minutes and focus on lowering your heart rate, roll back to the bottom of the hill, and do another set. I'd keep doing that until complete failure. You're going to want a rest day after that. I wouldn't ride hard for at least two days after a workout like that. If its too easy then add weight until it isn't.

Hope that helps.
2007-08-23 2:06 PM
in reply to: #937923

Resident Curmudgeon
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Gold member
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

     ↑     ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑ 
Hey! He's pretty smart for a new guy!

2007-08-23 2:08 PM
in reply to: #937911

Pro
3906
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Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

bryancd - 2007-08-23 1:43 PM There's a guy on SlowTwitch with a sig line that says it all:; Hills, they're what's for dinner!

Hey, thats been my line for like a year now.  Wheres my f'in lawyer?

2007-08-23 2:30 PM
in reply to: #937723

Champion
6962
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

Jorge,

If it's building bike strength you want, here is what has worked for me this year.  Being in the flat lands, like yourself if I remember correctly, instead of getting in the weight room I did big gear sets.

Some sample workouts are:  3-4 sets of 2 gears above your "comfort gear" and at 70 - 80 rpm.  5 min 100+ recovery.  I've also done 3 min big gear/2 min fast spin as a set.

It's helped my biking a lot.  It builds sport specific muscle, IMHO.  Granted, I shouldn't be telling you this because I want you to have a bad bike split so I can try and maximize the time it takes you to run me down at Clearwater.



2007-08-23 2:34 PM
in reply to: #937758

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
jszat - 2007-08-23 12:43 PM

amiine - 2007-08-23 12:13 PM After my not so fast bike split at Tman I decided to incorporate a few days of strenght training to my plan. Share your secrets to increase cycling power...

Is this some kind of trap for an ambush?

This is what I thought, too. I'm actually afraid to answer. :-)

2007-08-23 2:41 PM
in reply to: #937923

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

stuartjeff - 2007-08-23 1:46 PM I'm more of an expert in rock climbing training but I think some of the same rules apply to cycling. I'd avoid the weight room unless you are there to train antagonist muscles. There is no reason to train your sport-specific muscles in a weight room. You're just wasting time and possibly adding uneeded bulk. In any strength-to-weight ratio sport that is not such a good idea. I'm anti weight training UNLESS you are adding weight in a sport specific fashion. The best way to get better at cycling, running, climbing, whatever is to cycle, run, or climb. However, if you want to focus your training on increasing power then I'd design an exercise on your bike to do that. With cycling I'd think the best way to improve power is to ride hard up short steep hills, rest until you get back to a resting heart rate, and repeat. Keep going until you hit muscular failure. If you want to hit failure faster then try adding weight to your or your bike while you are cranking up the hill. For climbing we do what's called hyper-gravity training (basically just wear a diver's weight belt while climbing) and focus on doing the same explosive movements over and over again. You can do the same with cycling by putting on a weight belt or just add some weight to a pack and ride up the steepest hill you can find. Now if you really want to increase power then try this. One trick that climbers use to increase power is to mix two exercises back to back. You want one exercise that involves powerful movement that you do really slowly - then you follow it with a really explosive exercise where you are using momentum more than muscle to perform the motion. The idea is that by doing the workout back to back you are actually able to construct more efficient neural pathways for operating those specific muscles - i.e your muscles "learn" how to perform more efficiently. I can't remember off the top of my head but this training is based on a study that may have even been performed on cyclist. The training is called complex training and there are multiple papers on it but I wasn't riding when I first heard about it and started using it for climbing. With cycling maybe the way to mirror that would be to find a really steep hill. Then get on your big ring and really muscle your way up that hill slowly and powerfully always keeping control over your muscles. When you reach the half way point, drop to your small ring and sprint as fast as you can up the rest of the hill. When you reach the top rest for at least three minutes and focus on lowering your heart rate, roll back to the bottom of the hill, and do another set. I'd keep doing that until complete failure. You're going to want a rest day after that. I wouldn't ride hard for at least two days after a workout like that. If its too easy then add weight until it isn't. Hope that helps.

Good answer, Stuart. The ride with the weight pack idea is interesting. You're also correct about doing the two exercises back-to-back. For weight room only work, do lunges or squats for 10 reps, then immediately after that put the weights down and jump up and down for 10-15 reps.

2007-08-23 2:43 PM
in reply to: #937820

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

OrbeaMan - 2007-08-23 1:07 PM For those of you who do beleive in spending time in the weight room, do you focus the muscle building during your "offseason" or do you do the strength training year round? I've cut my strength training down from about 5-6 hours a week to maybe 2 at the most and replaced all of that with riding and running. It's made a huge difference, but during the winter I'm planning on hitting the weights again to build a little more strength. Smart or stupid?

I'll do stuff year round, but closer to a race I do more conditioning-oriented weight training such as kettlebell swings, complexes (these are like simplified weight circuits where you only use one bar or one set of dumbbells for the entire workout), or combos (like complexes but with less exercises per set and you use heavier weight.



Edited by MikeTheBear 2007-08-23 2:48 PM
2007-08-23 3:01 PM
in reply to: #937959

Veteran
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Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
the bear - 2007-08-23 3:06 PM

     ↑     ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑      ↑ 
Hey! He's pretty smart for a new guy!

 

and this isn't in the red font?  Now, I don't 'know' you bear, but from what I have seen/read...with this not being in red...it is an EXTREME compliment!  Way to go stuartjeff!

2007-08-23 6:26 PM
in reply to: #937966

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
jszat - 2007-08-23 2:08 PM

bryancd - 2007-08-23 1:43 PM There's a guy on SlowTwitch with a sig line that says it all:; Hills, they're what's for dinner!

Hey, thats been my line for like a year now.  Wheres my f'in lawyer?



Dude, I'm sorry! Icould have sworn I saw that on S.T., but it must have b een you. My apologies.

Jorge, funny you started this thread because I just did a great stregnth workout with my coach. I did 8 x 1.52 mile intervals on a CompuTrainer course with 3 min recovery. It was brutal but I was able to build my HR and power as I went along. It was an excellent stregnth conditioning workout.
was able to increase my power every set from 278 watts in 4:37 on the first up to the last one at 309 watts in 4:20sec, HR went from 143 up to 161 average at the end. It was pretty painful but fun! You know that kind of stress can really help jump start your body to respond and build stregnth.



2007-08-23 7:00 PM
in reply to: #937790

Expert
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Tallahassee, FL
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
Daremo - 2007-08-23 1:52 PM

You should know me by now Jorge ...... I'm all about just getting out there and riding, and no one has ever called me slow as a climber.

I would suggest incorporating some hillier routes on your rides and once you get to know them pick a section where you can attack the hills, preferably out of the saddle, for 2 - 5 minutes each time.  I'm talking Zone 4/5 efforts there.  Then spin on the downhills/flats for recovery.

If can't get to the hills, then do the stoplight to stoplight sprints.  Just pick a point down the road and go ballz out for it.  These types of workouts work better with a group or another rider or two.

Stay out of the weight room or I'll never talk to you again ..... Tongue out

Really?  I read in an article once that the best way to build bike strength was to climb hills, get back up to speed after intersections, etc, without getting out of the saddle.  Do you feel like you get a better workout out of the saddle?  Hopefully I'm staying within the topic of this thread, if not, feel free to PM.



Edited by davealt 2007-08-23 7:01 PM
2007-08-23 9:25 PM
in reply to: #938471

Cycling Guru
15134
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

In all my years of road racing I never did a finishing sprint in the saddle ...... and I was the fastest sprinter on my team, as well as the best climber - which I did mostly out of the saddle in shorter sections.

Yes, the theory is to do long hard pulls overgeared up hills to build strength.  But building strength is designed for explosive power in most cases, which is sprints and short hills, which for me is standing up.

Knowing what I do of amiine, I think he was just trying to stir up the pot as he should know that having cycling strength will do little to nothing for him if he can't sustain it for the HIM distance.  He knows that is all about increasing functional threshold power and all that since he is a power-weenie.

2007-08-23 9:51 PM
in reply to: #937758

Coach
10487
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power
jszat - 2007-08-23 12:43 PM

amiine - 2007-08-23 12:13 PM After my not so fast bike split at Tman I decided to incorporate a few days of strenght training to my plan. Share your secrets to increase cycling power...

Is this some kind of trap for an ambush?

Sort of!

Many of the strength training debates around here arise from the assumption that strength training equal to weight lifting and I think that’s what causes a lot of misinformation in particular among beginners. Hence the reason of my post, to clear up a bit that confusion and help those seeking to improve their specific bike power by doing specific bike work. Of course, the endless debate weather weight lifting will benefit our tri performance or not will continue, but if we make the distinction and clarify this for beginners then each can choose whether to do sport specific strength training or weight lifting based on their specific goals.

Anyway, after having a bumpy season so far I am hoping to finally be able to train consistently for the next 11 weeks in prep for Clearwater and my goal is to increase my Functional Power Threshold (FTP = power I should be able to sustain riding as hard as possible for 60 min or a 40K TT) so I can finally ride 56 miles (on a flat course) around 2:20 hrs or 24mph and still been able to post a fast run. For that reason my main goal is going to be to focus on power sessions and here are some examples for those interested in working on their cycling power. (Increasing FTP should be pretty much the main goal of triathletes regardless of their goal racing distance)

·  Tempo rides – 1-2 hrs @ Z3 (HR or watts) 90-100 rpm, with 5 min spin Z1 as recovery
·  Stair Tempo ride – 1-2 hrs doing 1/3 @ low Z3, 1/3 at high Z3, 1/3 @ low Z4 (HR or watts) 90-100 rpm, with 5 min spin Z1 as recovery in between sets
·  FTP intervals - 5-10 min @ Z4 (HR or watts) 90-100 rpm, with 5 min spin Z1 as recovery
·  Intense FTP intervals – 10-30 min @ Z4 (HR or watts) 90-100 rpm, with 5 min spin Z1 as recovery
·  Hill repeats - 5-10 min climbing @ Z4 (HR or watts) 60-80 rpm with 5 min spin Z1 as recovery
·  VO2 Max intervals – 3-8 min @ Z5 (HR or watts) 90-100 rpm, with same duration as spin Z1 as recovery
·  Anaerobic – 30 sec to 3 min @ Z5+ (all out HR or watts) self selected rpm, with 5-10 min spin Z1 as recovery
·  Hill repeats - at lower rpm and higher gearing (selecting a 1+ bigger gear of what used during races)

For FTP and VO2Max intervals you can start with 3-5 and build up to 8-12.

Of course it is very important to develop a solid base 1st so this should come after that and how each of these sessions should fit into a schedule is a bit more complicated but this should give a good idea of what sessions to work on.

2007-08-24 7:09 AM
in reply to: #937723

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Strenght Training to increase bike power

  I think that's crap and you should just go all out and survive the run!!

hoping against hope that he is dumb enough to listen so I have a chance to finish with 15 min of him in clearwater...

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