General Discussion Triathlon Talk » would you vote to change the swim length? Rss Feed  
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2007-11-08 12:44 PM

Master
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Brooklyn, NY
Subject: would you vote to change the swim length?
On the "How fast do U swim" thread, someone spoke about the disproportionate times of the top finishers vs. the swim times, in Kona. Not being anywhere's as fast as swimmer nor a distance swimmer........YET, I would still like to see the swim distance increased in all triathlons.
The reason for this is that from my own (slow) experience, I still feel as if the swim was nothing more than a warm up, in comparison to the remaining disciplines.

No I'm not trying to be a show off (doing 1,200yd is still a very big deal to me). Even after my very first "mini" tri of 400m, 3 years ago, I felt as if the swim really needed more distance. No, I'm not feeling challenged despite my need to work hard to complete a mile swim - in comparison to the other disciplines. (Hope that makes sense)

If the USAT were to hold a vote I would say "YES" to increasing the swim to to all triathlons. How would you vote?

My guess would have to be something like this:
SPRINT - from 1/2mi to 1mi
OLYMPIC - from 1mi (or 1500m) to 2mi or 3,000m
1/2 - from 1.2mi to 2.5mi
FULL - from 2.4 to (probably?) 4
My estimates based purely on feel. It would be nice to hear from knowledeable people in official capacities and/or lots of tri experience.

Again, I'm not being a hot shot. I am "one of you" who struggles building up to a 1mi swim.... and do zig-zag on occassion



Edited by cobannero 2007-11-08 12:45 PM


2007-11-08 12:53 PM
in reply to: #1044075

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
NO!!! i say decrease by half and extend the bike and run!

mind you i'm a terrible swimmer so I'm a little biased
2007-11-08 12:55 PM
in reply to: #1044075

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Master
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Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
Just think about how long it takes you to do each discipline in a race.   An Olympic, which has the highest percentage of time for swimming, is maybe 1/6 swim, 1/2 bike, 1/3 run.  An ironman is maybe 1/12 swim, 1/2 bike, 5/12 run.    So a definite arguement can be made that the swim is underrepresented in these races.
2007-11-08 1:00 PM
in reply to: #1044075

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Pro
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Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

Why regulate it?  Let the market decide.  If some race director wants to come up with something and sees that it is selling out like gangbusters, more power to him or her.  Sprint swims are all over the board.

2007-11-08 1:03 PM
in reply to: #1044075

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2007-11-08 1:03 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
As someone brand new to triathlons and training to do my first ever sprint triathlon in July, I think if you doubled the swim distance for the sprint, I probably would not have ever really considered actually competing. I am a fairly strong swimmer and comfortable in the water but the thought of having to swim 1000 yards before biking 14 miles and then running 5k scares the heck out of me.

I think before experienced triathletes petition and vote to extend swim distances, a lot of consideration should go the potential of scaring away prospective triathletes to the sprint distances which could easily happen if you make it seem too intimidating. Swimming a mile to me, right now, is intimidating.

You should also think back to when you first decided to do a triathlon and regardless of the distance, would you have actually done it and be here today?

Just my 2 cents.
Randi

Edited by Fechter99 2007-11-08 1:14 PM


2007-11-08 1:04 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Pro
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Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
Oh yeah, and as someone who did a 1:28 swim at MOO last year, I would hardly call it a warm up for some people.  That is 1:28 with zero course support and for sweaty donkeys like myself, you are talking possible hydration issues.  If they changed it, I would cope, but just saying its not really a cakewalk.
2007-11-08 1:06 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Elite
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Texas
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
2007-11-08 1:14 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

Last year I studied some race finish times and found that the disipline lengths for an Oly are "correct".  By that I mean that when comparing say the 25th percentile times to the 75th percentile times the time diffence was the same across all three disiplines (this is true when comparing any two percentiles).   I believe that was basically how the Oly lengths were originally chosen.

So, yes for the other lengths that have shorter swims in ratio to the bike /run lengths the swim is underrepresented.

and as a slow swimmer thats just the way I like it.

2007-11-08 1:17 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Champion
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Butler
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

I think I read something a while ago in the USAT mag that members get that they have tried this and it did not work but I dont remember the whole article.

I say no.  Just think if you tried to make everything equal the swim would kill most people.  Let's take an IM and take the winning pro for instance and gave him a 9 hr finish time and split that up evenly so  3 hrs for each discipline and how far they could swim,bike,run and then make everyone else do that same distance.  I would say you are talking a 7.5 miles swim, 80miles bike and a marathon.   I don't know about you but if I had to swim 7.5 miles I would never even consider it. (I just made up figures based on an estimate but I think you get the idea, the swim would be alot longer.)

Also, just because the swim is only 1/10th of the race it is using your entire body so probably evens out in the end.



Edited by kproudfoot 2007-11-08 1:19 PM
2007-11-08 1:19 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
Why change a good thing?


2007-11-08 1:21 PM
in reply to: #1044122

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

jszat - 2007-11-08 1:04 PM Oh yeah, and as someone who did a 1:28 swim at MOO last year, I would hardly call it a warm up for some people. That is 1:28 with zero course support and for sweaty donkeys like myself, you are talking possible hydration issues. If they changed it, I would cope, but just saying its not really a cakewalk.

A tick under 2 hrs here. And it being called a warm up??? Totally agree with you there, head Donk.



Edited by 1stTimeTri 2007-11-08 1:22 PM
2007-11-08 1:22 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Extreme Veteran
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Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
I am not sure I understand the reason behind changing it, but my vote is no.
2007-11-08 1:23 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Resident Curmudgeon
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

Seems to me that the biggest deterrent for wannabe triathletes is the swim. Increasing the length of the swim will serve to increase that barrier to entry, and prevent even more beginners from attempting the sport.

Besides, unless none of the discipline distances in sprint races are official or "mandatory" Rather they're dictated by the market, the venue, and the resources of the race director.



Edited by the bear 2007-11-08 1:26 PM
2007-11-08 1:24 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Expert
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Traverse Cityish
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
The perfect sprint would be:

23 meter swim
25 mile bike
50 yard dash

2007-11-08 1:25 PM
in reply to: #1044075

over a barrier
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
Yes. It would be nice but it will not happen...

a 4 mile swim would be one solution to IM events selling out so fast....


2007-11-08 1:33 PM
in reply to: #1044163

Champion
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
the bear - 2007-11-08 1:23 PM

Seems to me that the biggest deterrent for wannabe triathletes is the swim. Increasing the length of the swim will serve to increase that barrier to entry, and prevent even more beginners from attempting the sport.

Besides, unless none of the discipline distances in sprint races are official orĀ "mandatory" Rather they're dictated by the market, the venue, and the resources of the race director.



I do agree. I wish they were longer but honestly when I did my first tri the swim scared me when I saw how far it actually was. I done a 5k OWS swim and I still freak out when I have to swim 800 m when I see it.

Besides one thing I learnt from my first tri is teh swim is shorter but it can take alot out of you. I would like to see the run longer or the bike shorter. though.

Funny alot of beginners fear it and alot of veterians like to disregard it.

Besides longer swims are harder to manage and would be more dangerous at every level.
2007-11-08 1:41 PM
in reply to: #1044180

Giver
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Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

I agree with Bear, with a caveat.

Longer swims would discourage newbies. BUT...I'm all for *championships* having equitable race distances. If you want to determine who the *best* triathlete is, weight all of the disciplines equally. Without doing that, generally speaking, the bests cyclists and runners invariably beat the best swimmers. It'd be extremely interesting to see races in which the swim actually mattered in the outcome of the race.

You know the old saying of how you can lose, but not win the race in the swim? Yeah, I'd like to see that change.

2007-11-08 1:43 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Extreme Veteran
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Fridley, MN, USA
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
I would vote to up the sprint tri swim to a mile, minimum. Other than that, I don't know, I dont think I'll attempt any Oly or HIMs till I'm 20...
2007-11-08 1:57 PM
in reply to: #1044167

Pro
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Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?

running2far - 2007-11-08 1:25 PM Yes. It would be nice but it will not happen... a 4 mile swim would be one solution to IM events selling out so fast....

A solution I am sure the IM folks are looking for too

2007-11-08 2:16 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Pro
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Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
I would be for it for my own selfish reasons...I'm a great swimmer and a mediocre biker/runner. But that's my own selfish answer. In reality, I don't think it would fly. And 4 miles is a bit much even for me, who loves sadistically long swims.


2007-11-08 2:39 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Veteran
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Glen Carbon
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
Besides the logistical nightmare and safety issues....

I am a slow swimmer, about 2:30 per 100. Even if I could maintain this for 4 miles, that would be more than 2.5 hours in a lake or ocean, more likely over three hours, with no water or food.

I'll pass. 2.5 miles is far enough in the water without gills.
2007-11-08 2:45 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Science Nerd
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Redwood City, California
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
It would be hard to increase the swim distance without have some ability for people to get food or water.  Sure, I like swimming, but 4 miles is too much to do without those things.  That seems like a recipe for more people getting pulled out.
2007-11-08 3:02 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Master
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Tyler, TX
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
I like your proposal as I'd definitely place better in the races, but I think it would be so discouraging to your average triathlete that participation would go down.  Not good for the sport...
2007-11-08 3:06 PM
in reply to: #1044075

Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: would you vote to change the swim length?
I would not make the swim at an IM more than 5k though.

also remember chances are longer you make the swim the longer you will need to make cut off times and that is a logstics issues also.
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