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2007-12-09 5:06 PM

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Subject: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
My pace for both is about the same, but I can run for a half hour or more outside and still feel like I have more left, or run for 15 minutes inside at the same or even slower pace and feel like my legs are going to fall off. Is this a mental issue?


2007-12-09 5:14 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Interesting. Treadmill running is much easier as the ground is moving for you as opposed to you moving yourself forward. Now they will use a little different muscle group(i think) so maybe therein lies the problem.

Now get tough and go run in the snow
2007-12-09 5:19 PM
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2007-12-09 5:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
my experience has been that treadmill pace is slower than outside pace in terms of perceived effort. that is, the amount of effort needed to run 8 min. miles outside, only produces 9 min miles on a treadmill. i don't know if that works for everyone. an easy way to figure it out for sure would be to go by heart rate. ymmv, literally.
2007-12-09 5:23 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I have the same problem, when I'm running on a treadmill I feel like I'm going to die after 30-40 minutes. Outside I can actually fun faster and have more energy. It's bizarre but I guess it could also be just a calibration thing.
2007-12-09 5:25 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
There are several factors that can affect you indoors such as ability to cool yourself (there are three fans in the room that has our treadmill and trainer), calibration of the treadmill and lack of rigidity in the deck. Since the deck will give more than most surfaces you run on, it can be more like running on a soft surface which is going to be slower (or harder for the same speed).

Of course, add to that the fact that it is super boring and you probably have your answer

Shane


2007-12-09 5:29 PM
in reply to: #1091281

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
gsmacleod - 2007-12-09 6:25 PM


Of course, add to that the fact that it is super boring and you probably have your answer

Shane


This is very true as well.
2007-12-09 5:35 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I did a workout yesterday where I alternated between a treadmill and stationary bike several times.  It was a great workout and I never felt any fatigue.  I think that's a great way to go for days where you are stuck in the gym, and I will definitely do this again when I choose to keep it inside.  I did 3 eight minute stints on the treadmill separated by a couple eight minute sessions on the bike.  Figure out the intervals that you want to do, and go for it.  Do a slower pace to start, and you can really dial up the speeds after you are going.  I did one session much of the distance at a 6:30 pace which is WAY faster than I'd ever run outside.  Only problem is keeping an accurate recollection of what you've done -- I didn't bother, but you could keep notes as you go if you were so inclined.
2007-12-09 5:36 PM
in reply to: #1091266

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
bradword - 2007-12-09 7:14 PM

Interesting. Treadmill running is much easier as the ground is moving for you as opposed to you moving yourself forward. Now they will use a little different muscle group(i think) so maybe therein lies the problem.

Now get tough and go run in the snow


This is true because you don't have to move through the air while running on a treadmill, however, setting the treadmill at 1% will more or less compensate for this.

As far as different muscles or the belt moving versus you moving, it's untrue (otherwise running west-east would be significantly different than running east-west)

Shane
2007-12-09 5:40 PM
in reply to: #1091307

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
On every treadmill I've ever run, my pace is faster than outside and my HR noticeably lower for the given pace. It has happened with every treadmill on which I've run, including not just the handful of different treadmills I've used at the gym, but treadmills I've used in other locations as well. I've always heard that my experiences aren't the same as others' though.
2007-12-09 5:47 PM
in reply to: #1091313

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

LaurenSU02 - 2007-12-09 4:40 PM On every treadmill I've ever run, my pace is faster than outside and my HR noticeably lower for the given pace. It has happened with every treadmill on which I've run, including not just the handful of different treadmills I've used at the gym, but treadmills I've used in other locations as well. I've always heard that my experiences aren't the same as others' though.

 

x2



2007-12-09 5:53 PM
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2007-12-09 6:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
PennState - 2007-12-09 7:53 PM
I'm not trying to be a d-ck, but don't your legs have to 'move thru the air' with each stride? Obviously your body doesn't, but just asking?

Also, not only are treadmills rarely calibrated well, but your outside run is rarely 'calibrated well' either. Whether yiou measured it by car, bike, google, GPS.... there is some real potential for error....

Like all things, probably more complex than it seems



Your legs do have to move through the air, however, your upperbody isn't moving through air and your legs are moving through still air which is slightly different. You can look at all the physics of it if you want, however, the end result is that running on a treadmill (at 0% on a well calibrated treadmill - assuming that you are not overheating) is easier than running outside at the same pace - even without wind.

As for runs outside, of course there is error in all measuring means, but if my common runs, measured with different devices are all within 100m of each other, I'll assume they are close enough for what I want (for me it's all about the precision, not the accuracy when it comes to distance).

Shane
2007-12-09 6:21 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I run much faster outside. It's probably because it's in the 30s out there and my body doesn'thave to cool itself off. Indoors, it's 70 degrees and my HR jacks up due to the cooling-off activities it must perform.
2007-12-09 6:35 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
graceful_dave - 2007-12-09 3:06 PM

My pace for both is about the same, but I can run for a half hour or more outside and still feel like I have more left, or run for 15 minutes inside at the same or even slower pace and feel like my legs are going to fall off. Is this a mental issue?


Are you saying a 15 minute treadmill run is as hard as a 30 minute outdoor run?

Those both seem a little too short to make much of a determination, other than to question the calibration of the treadmill.

I do a lot of treadmill running and a lot of outdoor running. My treadmill running is either in my unheated garage, or indoors sometimes at the gym.

The treadmill can be easier in some conditions, and in others it's nearly identical to running outdoors. It's only harder on the treadmill if the air is too hot or stuffy, or if deadly boredom sets in ...

Generally, I have found that the unheated garage treadmill pace is just about the same as outdoors in the winter. I just did a 19.2 mile 3 hour run outside on a perfectly flat trail (former railbed along a lake) in the still air and falling snow, beautiful! My last 3 hour treadmill run was just around 19.1 miles, according to my logs. My average heart rate was 143 outside and 143 inside. Fancy that - identical.

Most trails are of course not nearly as "treadmill like" as this trail, which means most trails seem harder than the treadmill because they go up and down at least a bit.

But in the summer, the garage treadmill is easier. The heat load on my body of running in the sun vs. running in the permanent shadow of the garage makes running outside a lot harder for the same pace. Especially if you add in the wind resistance.

Last summer I recall doing a 12 mile out-and-back run with a 7 mph headwind on the out which was a tailwind on the back part. Adding in my pace and that meant 14 mph of wind resistance on the first 6 miles, followed by absolutely still air (and deathly heat) on the next 6 miles. I felt like an ant under a magnifier.

Let me tell you, running outside that day was much much harder than the identical run 3 days before done in the garage.

The indoor treadmill at the gym sort of sucks because the room temperature is in the mid 60s or so, no fans, no airflow. So it always feels a little harder than it should. By no means twice as hard - just a notch - but it's there.

Edited by brucemorgan 2007-12-09 6:38 PM
2007-12-09 7:00 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

I agree with the OP, running on a TM is harder for me than running outside.  The interesting thing is my HR is the nearly the same in both cases.  I really don't think it has anything to do with heat or calibration (it is always an issue on any TM).  I feel like part of it is because I am running such a consistent pace on a TM versus the slight changes in pace when outdoors due to footing, hills, declines, etc.  I also think there is a mental aspect to it as well.  I think it is harder and therefore it is, shocking! Surprised

My normal Tempo pace is around 7:30-7:40, but holding a 7:48 at a .5% incline was killing this week. I am normally an outdoor runner who moves inside when the footing stinks and I just adjust to the effects and wait for the snow to melt off the roads.



2007-12-09 7:12 PM
in reply to: #1091266

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
bradword - 2007-12-09 5:14 PM

Interesting. Treadmill running is much easier as the ground is moving for you as opposed to you moving yourself forward. Now they will use a little different muscle group(i think) so maybe therein lies the problem.

Now get tough and go run in the snow


I love running outside, upper teens with snow and ice on the ground, makes for a great run. Sometimes I just have to run indoors though.
2007-12-09 7:17 PM
in reply to: #1091385

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
brucemorgan - 2007-12-09 6:35 PM

graceful_dave - 2007-12-09 3:06 PM

My pace for both is about the same, but I can run for a half hour or more outside and still feel like I have more left, or run for 15 minutes inside at the same or even slower pace and feel like my legs are going to fall off. Is this a mental issue?


Are you saying a 15 minute treadmill run is as hard as a 30 minute outdoor run?

Those both seem a little too short to make much of a determination, other than to question the calibration of the treadmill.



These are the longest runs I have done as of my recent running life. Prior to taking a year off. I was up to hour long runs outdoors and1/2 runs on treadmills. I found the same thing, and I was never on the same treadmill. I was traveling for work a lot so it was whatever treadmill was available at the hotel.

I hadn't thought of the cooling issue. At home I have fans set up for the trainer, but the gym doesn't have any fans for the treadmills.

I'm going to chalk it up to cooling and boredom. I hate running inside anyway so I'll just deal with the snow.
2007-12-09 7:22 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

Generally, outdoor running is more challenging than running on the treadmill. 

Perhaps the fatigue is from not varying your incline (or decline if your model has the option).  Outdoors, your body has to adapt to variations in your footing, wind resistance, temperature and the elements.  On a treadmill it is just plain flat, the air is still, plus there is no resistance from the belt, in fact, it actually helps to propel you.  You are using the identical muscles without variation. Try varying your incline, speed and stride as you run on the treadmill.

Better yet, go outside for your runs.

2007-12-09 7:27 PM
in reply to: #1091449

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
pinktrigal - 2007-12-09 7:22 PM

Better yet, go outside for your runs.



Sheesh, you'd think I never ran outside

I try to run outside as much as possible, but sometimes it's faster to hop on the treadmill if I'm already at the gym and don't want to get into my winter duds.
2007-12-09 7:30 PM
in reply to: #1091462

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
graceful_dave - 2007-12-09 8:27 PM
pinktrigal - 2007-12-09 7:22 PM Better yet, go outside for your runs.

 

Sheesh, you'd think I never ran outside I try to run outside as much as possible, but sometimes it's faster to hop on the treadmill if I'm already at the gym and don't want to get into my winter duds.

Plus we know you are made of sugar, and we wouldn't want you to melt outside J/K



2007-12-09 7:33 PM
in reply to: #1091467

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Couldn't come up with anything funny to say. I'm going to go ride the trainer.
2007-12-09 8:11 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
This thread topic is exactly why, when forced to use a treadmill for a run workout, I go by HR and time only, and forget about pace. I put the incline at 1.5% and adjust the speed to whatever HR zone I want to be in.

2007-12-09 8:20 PM
in reply to: #1091551

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
goalie - 2007-12-09 7:11 PM

This thread topic is exactly why, when forced to use a treadmill for a run workout, I go by HR and time only, and forget about pace. I put the incline at 1.5% and adjust the speed to whatever HR zone I want to be in.



Now why do you have to come chime in and say something smart like that!
2007-12-09 8:26 PM
in reply to: #1091276

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
pshorty - 2007-12-09 5:21 PM

my experience has been that treadmill pace is slower than outside pace in terms of perceived effort. that is, the amount of effort needed to run 8 min. miles outside, only produces 9 min miles on a treadmill. i don't know if that works for everyone. an easy way to figure it out for sure would be to go by heart rate. ymmv, literally.


same!!! We have a Bodygurad treadmill, so it is probably pretty accurate, but I find I go about 30 seconds slower on the treadmill than outside, going by heartrate, I think it's mental for me.
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