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2007-12-09 9:26 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

see I have used the treadmill to help me pace train - or do ladder runs. I use 1.5-2% incline to make up for the fact that the treadmill does the work.  I kind of ignore HR (mostly) and just try to keep the pace....

 

but of course now that I am base training for a month I am outside, regardless of the temperature! 



2007-12-09 9:28 PM
in reply to: #1091588

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

gymgirlx - 2007-12-09 9:26 PM
pshorty - 2007-12-09 5:21 PM my experience has been that treadmill pace is slower than outside pace in terms of perceived effort. that is, the amount of effort needed to run 8 min. miles outside, only produces 9 min miles on a treadmill. i don't know if that works for everyone. an easy way to figure it out for sure would be to go by heart rate. ymmv, literally.
same!!! We have a Bodygurad treadmill, so it is probably pretty accurate, but I find I go about 30 seconds slower on the treadmill than outside, going by heartrate, I think it's mental for me.

x2

I strongly dislike running on a treadmill and I think the lack of enjoyment makes me run slower. The mind-body connection in training/racing is often over looked.

 

2007-12-09 9:59 PM
in reply to: #1091703

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
drchaya - 2007-12-09 7:26 PM

see I have used the treadmill to help me pace train - or do ladder runs. I use 1.5-2% incline to make up for the fact that the treadmill does the work.  I kind of ignore HR (mostly) and just try to keep the pace....



1.5% to 2% is IMHO overcompensating. The treadmill isn't doing that much work for you. The most common incline I hear is 1%; that compensates for lack of air resistance and the like.

The effect of the treadmill "pulling you along" and the like is much more present if you using an exaggerated, unnatural, "gliding" stride. A average "good running form" (85-90 cadence, minimal foot-ground contact) won't let the treadmill "pull" your feet back. I certainly have seen people at the gym that are letting that happen, often with this odd lope in their stride.
2007-12-09 10:12 PM
in reply to: #1091260

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Here is a link that compares Treddie pace to Road pace based on speed and incline. I cant tell you how accurate it is, but its something....

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php
2007-12-09 10:30 PM
in reply to: #1091795

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

AF_SGT - 2007-12-09 10:12 PM Here is a link that compares Treddie pace to Road pace based on speed and incline. I cant tell you how accurate it is, but its something.... http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

&nb... chart!

 

thanks!

 

I am more than happy to go down to 1% though the advantage of the 2% is that it makes going outside REALLY seem easy! not doing much dreadmill these days but in January when I add pace training back in will have to consider the pros/cons of more/less incline



Edited by drchaya 2007-12-09 10:30 PM
2014-01-27 7:39 PM
in reply to: graceful_dave


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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
For me outside is a lot more enjoyable and definitely feel it more the next 2 days after than what i do on a treadmill. I ALWAYS run on the treadmill with a minimum incline of 2.0% to try and replicate a little more push off I'd get with an outdoor run. Nothing beats the fresh air, sunshine (or rain) and open spaces


2014-01-27 8:01 PM
in reply to: graceful_dave

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Treadmill is more mental, running at a set constant pace is tedious and is tiring for me. The term dreadmill applies. Running outside or without mechanical propulsion allows ease of change of pace and effort. Outside running offers a more natural running form and less effort, at least for me.
2014-01-28 6:50 AM
in reply to: graceful_dave

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Originally posted by graceful_dave

My pace for both is about the same, but I can run for a half hour or more outside and still feel like I have more left, or run for 15 minutes inside at the same or even slower pace and feel like my legs are going to fall off. Is this a mental issue?


My home treadmill is noticably fast. Everyone who has ever run out it remarks about how difficult it is to maintain "their usual pace." When I run on treadmills at the gym, I am always amazed at how much easier the "same" pace can be.

Calibration can be off significantly on different treadmills. I know that if I can hold 7 minute miles on my home treadmill that I can do the same outside. Being able to run 7 minute miles on my gym's treadmills does not give me the same reassurance with regard to outdoor running.
2014-01-28 7:28 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I run 3x a week and do the majority (I run outside once every couple months) of my running on treadmills primarily since it's easier on my knees. I do notice a slight difference among treadmills but they seem generally consistent. I add .5% of incline to better simulate outdoor conditions. Interestingly the last two HMs I ran were faster than my long run pace. My treamill long runs are at 7.2 or 7.3 MPH with .5% incline. My last 2 HMs were at or better than 7.5MPH (8 min/mi). Treadmill for me has worked since I don't mind watching TV when on the machine. The only drawback is intervals. This is definately more difficult on the treadmill.

I see some people put 2% of incline on their treadmills. I was advised against doing this consistently by a seasoned ultra-marathoner. He said it would alter my stride too much. OK for short durations but not entire runs FWIW.
2014-01-28 8:46 AM
in reply to: dillrob

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

I don't know why pace matters on a treadmill.  We use HR and RPE and do lots of intervals, some at steep inclines and some at a rate that brings the HR and/or RPE way up....short bursts with rest between that brings HR back to 80%.  Used in that manner it's anything but boring and I think you get the most out of a treadmill session in that manner.  We don't do long steady sessions because you tend to do a lot of the things mentionedin this thread....change your stride, let the treadmill do the work, etc. 

You can get some very focused and beneficial workouts on the treadmill if you put some thought into what you are doing and what you want out of it.

2014-01-28 8:57 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Originally posted by Left Brain

I don't know why pace matters on a treadmill.  We use HR and RPE and do lots of intervals, some at steep inclines and some at a rate that brings the HR and/or RPE way up....short bursts with rest between that brings HR back to 80%.  Used in that manner it's anything but boring and I think you get the most out of a treadmill session in that manner.  We don't do long steady sessions because you tend to do a lot of the things mentionedin this thread....change your stride, let the treadmill do the work, etc. 

You can get some very focused and beneficial workouts on the treadmill if you put some thought into what you are doing and what you want out of it.




This ^^^^^

You can get good interval workouts on the treadie. I don't use HR but I know when I do intervals on the treadie I've done a solid workout. If you step on the 'mill with a focused workout/objective in mind and set it to at least 1% incline, regardless of accuracy pace etc. you will have gained something.

It's also way cool when your active recovery pace is faster than most around you My fav is what I call 10-7's. I run quarters or half miles at 10 mph, active recovery at 7 mph.


2014-01-28 9:03 AM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

Originally posted by reecealan
Originally posted by Left Brain

I don't know why pace matters on a treadmill.  We use HR and RPE and do lots of intervals, some at steep inclines and some at a rate that brings the HR and/or RPE way up....short bursts with rest between that brings HR back to 80%.  Used in that manner it's anything but boring and I think you get the most out of a treadmill session in that manner.  We don't do long steady sessions because you tend to do a lot of the things mentionedin this thread....change your stride, let the treadmill do the work, etc. 

You can get some very focused and beneficial workouts on the treadmill if you put some thought into what you are doing and what you want out of it.

This ^^^^^ You can get good interval workouts on the treadie. I don't use HR but I know when I do intervals on the treadie I've done a solid workout. If you step on the 'mill with a focused workout/objective in mind and set it to at least 1% incline, regardless of accuracy pace etc. you will have gained something. It's also way cool when your active recovery pace is faster than most around you My fav is what I call 10-7's. I run quarters or half miles at 10 mph, active recovery at 7 mph.

On board with this too. Don't worry so much about these little things where a treadmill might not be exactly like outside. Instead, use the tool for what it can do. If it's boring, change the pace, change the grade. Set up a rotation of a few things into a nice block and repeat it throughout the run. It still may not be as awesome as running outside, but with a little creativity can be much better than the truly awful many like to make it out to be.

And even though this is a bumped 6+ yr old thread, it's still worth repeating this part.

2014-01-28 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I thought we just had a thread like this last week? I guess it must be winter.

I had lactate testing a few years ago, and what they told me there makes the most sense: Treadmill running at 0% incline is biomechanically similar to running slightly downhill. Hence the suggestions to set the incline at about 1%-- to make the running feel more like outdoor running to your body. This is NOT to compensate for wind resistance, etc. There is slight difference in the mechanics of moving your legs against the moving belt vs running on still ground, but most people won't notice this unless they are going very fast.

The paces the lab gave me were actually at 2% incline, but they were "equivalent" to slower outdoor paces. I also had heart rates to compare.

Personally I prefer to run at 0% incline, knowing that the pace is a bit easier than outdoor running (so I set it faster). I actually find the paces to be pretty similar to perfectly flat outdoor running, like a track.

A few other misconceptions:

"The treadmill does some work for you." No-- you are working AGAINST the movement of the belt.

"You aren't propelling yourself forward." Not true-- the treadmill belt moves backward, therefore you have to propel yourself forward to compensate. Although it looks like you are staying in place, you are moving forward vs. the belt (the frame of reference is not stationary). If the belt were to stop unexpectedly while you were running, you'd find yourself propelled onto the console.



Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-01-28 1:35 PM
2014-01-28 1:35 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
I ran today for three hours on a treadmill facing the yoga/bodyworks/step studio at my local LA Fitness. Two and a half of those three hours had classes in session! From strictly a visual perspective, it beat the hell out of running loops around my neighborhood. Just saying....

Oh ... 1% incline for me.
2014-01-28 2:42 PM
in reply to: pinktrigal

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

Originally posted by pinktrigal

Generally, outdoor running is more challenging than running on the treadmill. 

Perhaps the fatigue is from not varying your incline (or decline if your model has the option).  Outdoors, your body has to adapt to variations in your footing, wind resistance, temperature and the elements.  On a treadmill it is just plain flat, the air is still, plus there is no resistance from the belt, in fact, it actually helps to propel you.  You are using the identical muscles without variation. Try varying your incline, speed and stride as you run on the treadmill.

Better yet, go outside for your runs.

I often run before work, when it's still dark outside (I don't run in the dark -- it creeps me out and if I'm not enjoying a run -- why do it?) or when my kid is napping. I do a lot of treadmill running and managed to PR every distance last year. I actually don't mind the mill so much -- now that I'm into season 4 of The Wire and have a Roku

2014-01-28 3:02 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

Originally posted by jennifer_runs I thought we just had a thread like this last week? I guess it must be winter.

Yes.  Winter of 2007!!!  The more things change... 



2014-01-28 3:21 PM
in reply to: DV 1

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace

Originally posted by DV 1 I ran today for three hours on a treadmill facing the yoga/bodyworks/step studio at my local LA Fitness. Two and a half of those three hours had classes in session! From strictly a visual perspective, it beat the hell out of running loops around my neighborhood. Just saying.... Oh ... 1% incline for me.

That's great!

I like to watch the racquetball courts (also at LAF).   It's highly entertaining.   Unfortunately there isn't quite enough variation of action and I'd rather throw myself over the railing than try it for 3 hours.  Dude!

2014-01-28 3:59 PM
in reply to: tameryka

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Originally posted by tameryka

I have the same problem, when I'm running on a treadmill I feel like I'm going to die after 30-40 minutes. Outside I can actually fun faster and have more energy. It's bizarre but I guess it could also be just a calibration thing.

x2
2014-01-28 6:12 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Treadmill pace vs. Outside Pace
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Originally posted by jennifer_runs I thought we just had a thread like this last week? I guess it must be winter.

Yes.  Winter of 2007!!!  The more things change... 




Ha! I didn't even notice the date on the original post.

There should be a law against reviving old threads.
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