General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Weight training during IM training Rss Feed  
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2007-12-12 9:35 PM

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Subject: Weight training during IM training
What percentage of people weight train while training for an IM?

It would seem to me that there is such a need to focus on the three disciplines that there is no time for weight training?

Those that do, do you notice any beneftis?

Any thoughts on this matter?


2007-12-12 9:38 PM
in reply to: #1098903

Champion
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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

Oh crap, he just opened a giant can of worms Surprised

I lift twice a week, nothing heavy but full body and I definatley feel a difference.

Now everyone pile on Frown

2007-12-12 9:48 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
BT has a weight training forum and there are plenty of people in there that have done IMs or are getting ready for their first. Go check it out. It looks pretty cool!
2007-12-12 9:51 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Westminster, CO
Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
weight and core during build phases - but you are correct.  in my final build the weights are the first thing to go when training hours are tapped out.  I can't say I noticed a difference but I did stay injury-free this past season
2007-12-12 9:58 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
It all depends on the volume you do in the swim/bike/run and how much training time you have. Weights is good, but is the first to go in those last 3-4 months, when you really want to get the specific training done.

But you can always try "specific weights" such as pullbuoy/paddle/band when swimming or gir gear riding, those really really help to build strenght for IM´s.

happy training,
Vinnie





2007-12-12 10:21 PM
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2007-12-13 6:07 AM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
I have been following the Friel program, AA phases that max strength phase. I am in my last AA phase and will soon start my max strength phase, the plan being to end the max strength phase before my 36 week IM plan starts. I will then continue with 1-2x a week maintenance program. As someone who is looking to lose some more weight it was reccomended I add strength training to boost my metabolism. We will see if it pays off in a few months. I also do some body weight core stuff 3x a week.
2007-12-13 7:25 AM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
Thanks for all the input.

I have been lifting twice a week and I'll think that I'll stick with it as long as my tri training allows. I've heard that it helps with injuries and I think there is some merit to that.
Plus, you get a good endorphin high on lifting unlike other sports, not necessarily better, but fulfilling...

Plus, who can't use some extra strength. I think when the time comes for IM training, that the lfting may have to go though. There are only so many trainable hours in week.
2007-12-13 8:10 AM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

I have no idea on percentage that do, or the benefits seen, but I did some weight training in my IM prep. I rarely do weights otherwise. I'm sure it helped at least a little, but quantifying that would be impossible.

It's in that group of things that make contributions to your performance - along with the last 5 minutes of that swim workout, the last track interval you want to skip, not having that one beer, avoiding that little piece of cake, putting race wheels on your bike, not stopping to pee (hehe...). So, things that by themselves won't make a significant impact on your performance, but when you add them up it is significant.

tom 

2007-12-13 8:17 AM
in reply to: #1099388

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
As you are lifting twice a week, for the last three months leading up to the IM, try switchng them with:

1 strenght swim sessions short repeats of pubuoy, paddles, band

1 strenght bike sesssion, such as 10x3´ in 53x12, 90" rest

That´s specific "weight training" you will see that you HR is not going to be that high, but your muscles will be screaming!!

Have fun,
V
2007-12-13 9:39 AM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
No lifting for me.  Would rather focus on SBR and recovery.  This is especially true in the IM build, but I use this philosphy year-round.


2007-12-13 11:47 AM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

I am an unabashed proponent of weight training , but I don't have a previous IM to compare and contrast to without it.  I lifted weights prior to triathlon, and I saw no reason to phase it out.  If 10-15 extra pounds of muscle prohibits me from finishing an IM, well, I had other issues much bigger than lifting to address.  It all boils down to personal preference, although you will see some seriously opinionated diatribes on this subject.

Chris 

2007-12-13 12:11 PM
in reply to: #1099602

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

JohnnyKay - 2007-12-13 10:39 AM No lifting for me.  Would rather focus on SBR and recovery.  This is especially true in the IM build, but I use this philosphy year-round.

x2 ......

2007-12-13 12:15 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
I think I sprinkled in a few sessions to mix it up but for the most part nixed it during the season in favor of tri specific stuff.
2007-12-13 2:23 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

I am incorporating some full-body excercises in my prep for IMKY.  It's not because I want to, either.  I believe that my previous and current injuries were sustained due to not being strong enough to support the repeated abuse that I dole out to my body.

 For instance, patellofemoral pain (aka runner's knee), I am convinced, is preventable and curable as long as the quad muscle is strong enough to consistently support the knee cap on its "track."  To that end, I do squats!

~B

2007-12-13 4:32 PM
in reply to: #1100392

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
getsome - 2007-12-13 3:23 PM

For instance, patellofemoral pain (aka runner's knee), I am convinced, is preventable and curable as long as the quad muscle is strong enough to consistently support the knee cap on its "track." To that end, I do squats!

~B

Knee extensions are key for runner's knee as well, as I learned in the 3 months of Physical Therapy that I just completed (the reason I was in PT so long was due to a separate neck issue).  The last 15% of the motion are especially important to focus on.

I did not consistantly strength train for my Ironman this year.  That turned out to be a huge mistake.  For next year, and for all seasons to come, I had better be spending time in the weight room in the months leading up to the raceInnocent (I'll deal with the last two months before IMLP when I get there), else I will probably just find myself back at PT for one reason or another Cry 



2007-12-13 5:56 PM
in reply to: #1098903

over a barrier
Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
Once the hrs start to build up, weight training is the first to go due to time constraints...I'll be lifting again this season to help my swim....lost some mojo this year but i'm just focusing on thr 1/2im ths year
2007-12-13 6:40 PM
in reply to: #1100045

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
Daremo - 2007-12-13 12:11 PM

JohnnyKay - 2007-12-13 10:39 AM No lifting for me.  Would rather focus on SBR and recovery.  This is especially true in the IM build, but I use this philosphy year-round.

x2 ......



x3...but I do enjoy a 2x per week free weight upper body training during my brief "Off Season".

Edited by bryancd 2007-12-13 6:41 PM
2007-12-13 7:09 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
I rarely include weight lifting on any IM training unless the athlete requests it. However I do include certain tupes of strenght training sport specific such as drills, hills, swim 4 strokes, polys, etc. IMO there are two problems with weight lifting when included in an endurance training plan if maximizing your performance is your ultimate goal: 

1)      Most plans advice weight training in particular during the base phase. As the plan progresses the time spent doing strength training is greatly reduced to 1-2 x a week or drop all together. As with any activity we have to do enough of it frequently to maintain the training adaptations obtained otherwise it will disappear within a few weeks after stopping the activity. That makes me question how much it can help you for your race unless you continue to lift even through your taper

2)      The type of physiological adaptations produced by weight training are different and in many instances on the opposite end of those gained through endurance sports. When training for endurance sports we invest a lot of time producing certain adaptations that will allows us to go longer, faster or both. Adaptations such as increase muscle mitochondrial enzymes, hypertrophy of slow twitch muscle fibers, inter-conversion of fast twitch muscle fibers (type IIb to type IIa), and increase muscle glycogen storage, but these can be diminish or stop all together by weight training. Depending on the program that you follow, some of the adaptations that take place when weight training are different. For instance while you can increase your muscle mitochondrial enzymes through endurance training, weight training can halt that or even reduced. While we primarily stimulate/train fast twitch fibers through endurance, weight lifting stimulate/train fast twitch (IIb-IIa). Finally it is been suggested that with endurance training IIb fibers can adapt into IIa; the opposite happen with weight training.

That been said, certain strength training programs or variations might produce some adaptations relevant for endurance sports but you will have to spend significant time doing so other wise the gains will come at a negligible rate, which for the time constraint athlete might represent and unwise ROI.
 
There are other reasons to include strength training in particular if you have other goals than performance. Strength training might help to you recover from injury or correct bad mechanics. It might help an athlete to lose weight which is the main goal for many. It can help to break the monotony that some might find from s/b/r and for sure it can help you to look good.

Ultimately do whatever fit your needs/goals; just understand that bigger and stronger muscles don’t equate to a faster swim/bike/run.  Also, you don’t need to weight lift to prevent injuries, you just need to train smart…

check out the new strenght forum and good luck IM training



Edited by amiine 2007-12-13 7:11 PM
2007-12-13 8:50 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
Wouldn't helping you return from an injury or reducing injuries all together or helping/fix bad mechanics, wouldn't that equal better economy? which will help make you more consistent with your training, wouldn't make you faster?
There has never been a study, to say weight training will slow you down, if you have the time, why not?
As people will tell you, you wont increase your LT or VO2 with weights, but for the reasons above, they do help.
Ask the top 10 men and woman in kona, where they spend time in the winter months.
2007-12-13 9:41 PM
in reply to: #1098903

Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

I did about 3 months of semi focused lifting the right after registering (AA1, AA2 and AA3 - going long plan)  but that was the first/easiest thing to drop as I tried to focus on swimming more. 

After that, I just didn't want to commit the time or go through the pain of re-initiating it.  



2007-12-14 8:14 AM
in reply to: #1101131

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

elitejoe1 - 2007-12-13 8:50 PM Wouldn't helping you return from an injury or reducing injuries all together or helping/fix bad mechanics, wouldn't that equal better economy? which will help make you more consistent with your training, wouldn't make you faster? There has never been a study, to say weight training will slow you down, if you have the time, why not? As people will tell you, you wont increase your LT or VO2 with weights, but for the reasons above, they do help. Ask the top 10 men and woman in kona, where they spend time in the winter months.

It's been hashed over before, but:

 - If you are rehabing a specific injury, then do weight training if that's what is recommended for rehab

 - Weight training has not been shown to reduce overuse injuries as far as I know (if you also play lots of soccer or basketball, then it may help injuries you might get there)

 - If you have the time, then go ahead and do weights.  The problem for most of us is that time is a limiter.  And more SBR and recovery is a better use of that limited time than weights as far as triathlon performance goes.

 - Pros have different training regimens than most of us do.  That is, they are already doing 30+ hours of SBR.  For them, the chance that weight training might help could be enough to do some.  But there are pros who do not as well.

2007-12-15 12:46 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
2007-12-15 12:46 PM
in reply to: #1098903

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Maryland
Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training

None.

Unless you consider my own body weight.

Push, sit, pull ups almost daily to burn the edge off between training events.  Helps keep me from being cranky.

 CP2K 



Edited by CerveloP2K 2007-12-15 12:47 PM
2007-12-16 7:41 PM
in reply to: #1098903

Member
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Toronto
Subject: RE: Weight training during IM training
Weight training definitely has its benefits. Think about this:

Males will lose muscle mass, if I remember correctly up to 2% per year, after the age of 35 yrs. So some sort of program is required just to maintain the status quo. Females can use weight training to help build bone density and fight the effects of osteoperosis.

But unless you are a body builder, lifting weights and isolating muscles does not make a great deal of sense.

For endurance athletes it might be a better approach to build functional strength, doing exercises that engage the multiple muscles that we use while swimming, running, and biking. Think about this...when was the last time you used the leg lift motion while doing a triathlon (of any distance).

Look for exercises that improve your balance, and engage multiple muscles - BOSU balls are great for this, and help improve core strength.
Want to improve leg strength, try step-ups or lunges. To increase the challenge, hold on to some dumbells. But usually your body weight is sufficient.
Want explosive strength, try bounding, jumping etc.

The good news about these type of excercises is that they build strength, are fun, challenging, and do not take a lot of time.

Good luck with your training.




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