General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Mass Building- Helping My Son Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-09-26 12:23 PM

User image

Extreme Veteran
305
100100100
Lewisville
Subject: Mass Building- Helping My Son

Ok... so my 14 year old son started to go to the gym with me a few weeks back. He's wanting to go to West Point, and is just rail thin. He wants to also do a couple sprints next year for the first time, but I'm most concerned with his strength requirements for West Point. Right now he can probably bench a max of maybe 80lbs?

I've been focusing on mass exercises like squats, bench, and barbell back rows. I was an avid lifter for years, and followed the old school pyramid training plan. 4 exercises with 3 sets each. I'd increase weight each set and decrease reps- start with 10-12 reps, then 8-10 and finish with 4-5 reps. I did the usual breakout of exercises:

Day 1: Chest/Tris/Shoulders

Day 2: Back/Bis

Day 3: Legs

Repeat

I'm thinking that I shouldn't really bother about the isolation exercises for bis/tris since I want to put overall mass on him. Also, I have a hidden agenda of getting mass back on me since I've been stripped down to an endurance frame (although in much better overall shape). We lift 3 days a week for about 30-45 mins each session, which is all we can afford time wise right now. 

Any suggestions?



2008-09-26 12:41 PM
in reply to: #1698918

Regular
67
2525
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
Why overall mass? The Point has strength and endurance requirements, I know, but mass requirements!?
Mass is usually 3 sets of 10 reps or around there. Also, you need to give any exercise regimen some time to see how his body is adapting.

Personally, I'd say work on strength and endurance for now and worry about mass after he meets the mins for admittance. But personally, I'd say Annapolis, is where he should apply

Semper Fi

John
2008-09-26 1:22 PM
in reply to: #1698961

User image

Extreme Veteran
305
100100100
Lewisville
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son

ANOVA - 2008-09-26 12:41 PM Why overall mass? The Point has strength and endurance requirements, I know, but mass requirements!? Mass is usually 3 sets of 10 reps or around there. Also, you need to give any exercise regimen some time to see how his body is adapting. Personally, I'd say work on strength and endurance for now and worry about mass after he meets the mins for admittance. But personally, I'd say Annapolis, is where he should apply Semper Fi John

I say "mass" just because he's so skinny. I guess that will just come with a strength routine regardless. Thanks... oh, and BTW, Annapolis is on the short list as well.

2008-09-26 1:55 PM
in reply to: #1698918

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
I just ordered "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. Haven't received it yet but I hear it's a great book on getting beginners into weight training with detailed descriptions on how to do the exercises properly and it contains a beginners routine focusing on the basic exercises with no fluff movements. Even though I consider myself a "veteran" weight trainer, I still ordered it and I plan to do the beginners routine. Nothing wrong with going back to the basics.

If you want to wait a few days, I'll post the routine once I get the book. However, for $20 on Amazon, it's probably worth buying to get the coaching pointers on doing the exercises correctly.

One final point on gaining mass: it's largely a matter of caloric intake. Up his calories somewhat (but don't overdo or he'll just gain fat) and he'll gain muscle. In my situation, I'm looking to lose fat but preserve muscle and maintain strength. I'll be doing the program in a caloric deficit. Two different goals, same program, just different nutrition. Note that not all programs can be used like this, but this one probably can.
2008-09-28 1:31 AM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Expert
974
5001001001001002525
Encinitas
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
I'm going to second Mike's recommendation for Starting Strength. Your son is the exact person that book was written for and he will get spectacular results if he follows that program closely. Also as Mike says, a big part of it is going to be nutrition. If you want to get big you have to eat. It sounds a little strange but if you pair up heavy lifting with drinking a gallon of milk a day, especially at his age, he will build muscle mass like he's on steroids (but without the steroids).

The quick and dirty recommendation from the book is to do as follows:

workout A:
3x5 squat
3x5 overhead press
1x5 deadlift

workout B:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench press
3x5 power clean

lift Monday, Wednesday and Friday switching back and forth between workout A and B. Every day add 10lbs to each of his lifts (or 5 for the weaker lifts since 10 might be too big of a jump). Drink a gallon of milk and watch as he grows.

It sounds very simple, and it is. Beginners won't bennefit from a complicated program, when you first start out your body will adapt in a linear fashion and you just need a program that lets you up the weight every single time you lift. I could get into the details of everything and why it works but then I would be here all night! Easier to just get the book, plus Rippetoe has a pretty entertaining writing style. The really important thing that needs to be looked at also, especially for a growing kid, is form. It is perfectly safe for youngins to lift heavy weights but it's essential they do it with correct form. Unfortunately it's actually very difficult to find coaches who actually know how to do all these lifts with correct form (another good reason to get the book, the majority of it is detailed breakdown of the actual lifts).

So to sum it up, I HIGHLY recommend Starting Strength for your son based on your stated goals, it is designed exactly for what you are asking about and I believe it is the most effective program out there for that situation. Try to find a good coach to teach him the lifts and then just get him under a bar and be amazed at how fast he will get stronger. Kids his age with the hormons they have pumping through their bodies can put on muscle like you wouldn't believe.
2008-09-28 4:35 PM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son

Rippletoe's book is excellent, It, along with Christian Thib and Chad Waterbury's (spelling of names... i know) articles on T-nation did tons for my strength and size when I was bodybuilding seriously.

 

On a side note, the 5x5 programs by Bill Starr will put strength on a person like absolutely no other program on earth. Lots of free information on it nowadays all over the internet.  As said above, nutrition is probably going to be the MOST important thing for a 14 year old (well... anybody really.)

 

Just a rule I follow always. If a program isn't designed around the olympic lifts, I leave it alone. 



2008-09-29 10:34 AM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Expert
757
5001001002525
Florida
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
i agree with everyone else.
As a pretty avid bbuilder, i would reccomend starting strength as well for a beginner, and if he wants MASS he needs to EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT, i think i mentioned EAT.
just keep gettin him calories, evenly spaced every 3 hours.
If he is having trouble eating that much mix in weight gainer shakes which are SO easy and cheap to make.
1 cup ice
1 cup milk(i use skim but for him 1 or 2%)
2 tbs. all natural Peanut butter
2 scoops whey
1 teaspoon glutamine(recovery)
handful of blueberries, or a medium banana


put in blender and enjoy.And for him post workout it would help to add some ice cream to that shake to really give him muscle building power.

Sounds like he cant eat enough, ima huge propenent of clean bulking but for someone young like him with his metabolism ice cream post workout for the fast carbs would be good.
Make sure hes eating constantly and itll start happening.
Also checkout www.bodybuilding.com

if you want any other advice PM me.
2008-09-29 12:59 PM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Modesto, California
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son

I did this for years, milk and 20 rep squats, just keep a trash can close by just in case!

http://www.ironworkout.com/20_rep_squat.htm

2008-09-29 2:19 PM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Extreme Veteran
467
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
At 14 I am sure your son has quite a bit of natural growing in front of him. Don't worry about mass, think more strength.
At 14 most kids struggle with balance, coordination and core stability. Work on these areas and then he can start stacking more wieght on.
I think someone said something about eating here, and that is probably the most important area he needs to work on. At 14 most kids do not care what they put in their body, he needs to know the importance of that first.

2008-09-29 4:12 PM
in reply to: #1698918

User image

Extreme Veteran
305
100100100
Lewisville
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son

Thanks everyone for all the great advice... I've been pushing him to eat more, along with the consistent weight training, and he's already seeing some improvements. Coordination seems to be one of the biggest challenges right now- balancing the bar on the bench, dumbells, etc.

I'll take a look at "Starting Strength" as well. Sounds like a great place to get back to basics. He's at a much better place than I was at his age strength wise.

2008-09-30 2:48 PM
in reply to: #1698918

Expert
882
500100100100252525
Fort Bragg
Subject: RE: Mass Building- Helping My Son
I recall being a skinny 14 year old hoping to go to West Point. I had a huge, uphill battle.

First and foremost, I recommend a balanced workout regimen that blasts the entire body. Crossfit.com has some great stuff that will work in well there. It will pay HUGE dividends when he takes Army Movement (formerly known as gymnastics) and Boxing.

Next, I recommend eating early and often. Go to fitday.com and track a couple of his eating days. The #1 spot I would check is protein. I think he'll be fine if he's skinny and strong.

Feel free to PM me or be in touch with me. I am always happy to help those interested in entering the service academies or the military.


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Mass Building- Helping My Son Rss Feed