New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.
-
No new posts
| Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2008-10-12 8:23 AM |
Extreme Veteran 504![]() SW Florida Gulf Coast | Subject: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Hi all! I'm really hoping that someone with more experience than I have can provide me with some insite as to what 'may' or 'may not' be going on with my bike set up. First off, I've been training for tris for about a year now. I have participated in 2 sprint distance races (with good results in both) and a handfull of running road races. At present, I have one more sprint race coming up at the end of October and then an olympic distance race 2 weeks later. For the first two races I rode my 52cm Trek 2.1 WSD with clip-on aerobars. I was sold this bike 'off the rack' and they had to hack off quite a bit of the seat post to get it to fit my short legs. On this bike I averaged about 17 to 19 mph for both races with minimal leg fatigue. About 1 month ago I purchased a Cervelo P2C with Ultegra package. The bike is a 48cm (I'm a smidge over 5'5" with very short legs and a longer torso). The fitter couldn't fit me on a 51cm P2C without having to hack off the seat post, so we went with the 48cm. The fitter switched out the stock 70mm stem to a 100mm stem when I was having some scapula discomfort. This eased it completely. My big problem now is that I'm having a lot of discomfort in my quads. I mean they are seriously working overtime to produce approximately the same mph that I was able to produce on my road bike w/ clip on bars. My P2C is set up with the 78 degree seat tube angle (saddle is sitting in middle of rails). Did a 30 mile training ride yesterday and my gosh, it felt like my quads were working overtime and then some! I had to rise up to the brake hoods to rest more times than I care to admit. My training partner (who is new to triathlon and to road biking in general) was riding her new QRoo Dulce bike and said that she felt great and wanted to know when we could do a longer ride. Ack!! There is just no way that I could do a longer ride at this point holding the aero position (where in the past this would have been no problem). To make a long story short, I'm seriously bummed. Is this feeling of quad fatigue normal? Before purchasing the P2C, I had pondered the idea of one of the multisport type bikes (like the Carbon Soloist). Now I'm wondering if I 'should' have gone with that. I'm also concerned that maybe my fit isn't right. Perhaps I should have been on a larger frame? I'm willing to continue to go back to the bike shop for fit adjustments, but there's alway that 'what if'. I've attached a link of me riding the P2C (in sandals and before we switched out stems). It's the only one that I have at the moment. I hope that someone out there can help/relate. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_V2pHzF69oIA/SN6adm8IPsI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/ULPUM... Many thanks! Edited by shellabree 2008-10-12 8:37 AM |
|
2008-10-12 9:49 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Master 1610![]() ![]() ![]() Kirkland, WA | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.When i got a tri bike, i also noticed the my quad muscles were working a little extra. however, it seemed like it was just working the muscles a little differently then i was used to. i don't know if fit has something to do with it, or if it is just more a factor of the geometry of the tri bike vs. road bike and how this uses your leg muscles. |
2008-10-12 9:56 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Member 54![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.How does it feel when you run off the bike? When I first switched to a tri bike, I had the same problem. I have been back for tweaking of my fit and it is better. I'm not sure if it is the fitting or just time in the saddle, using different muscles. Oh, and I was not as fast on the tri bike as on the road bike for a couple of months. |
2008-10-12 10:23 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Regular 59![]() ![]() South Carolina | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Hard to get a really accurate ideal of your fit by picture. However, if your set up is the same and with tyour cycling shoes on, you may not have seat quite high enough. That would cause your quads some issues. Also, if youhave your other bike, take a picture and compare. Alos take measuremnets from the old one and compare to the new one. I thnk maybe you can remove a few of the spacers on fork, lower your position and also move set to front of your rails. You are a bit extended. Remember, that with a road bike, we engage our hams alot more but for me personally, it made the transition to running more difficult. |
2008-10-12 10:30 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Extreme Veteran 669![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Olathe, Kansas | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Ok, I will take a stab at this. I am no expert, but I will try. Generaly speaking, road bikes have shallow seat tube angle and that is what you have been riding before. Assuming, you have been fitted properly on your previous bike, your fitter, fitting you on a P2C had a mission to preserve all of your body angles and just rotate you forward around the bottom bracket. The purpose of that is, if you have a correct pedal stroke mechanics, to give hamstring "a break" for the most part of your pedal stroke, except that hemi should fire during "mud scraping phase". That allows your quads and hip flexors to do most of the work during the pedal stroke. This should reduce hemstring fatigue and allow for more efficient running after the bike. This in theory may explain somewhat of an additional quad fatigue you are feeling. I am under the assumption that the fit was done correctly. Also, generaly speaking, your body will go trough an adaptation phase to a new position during which according to literature is very much normal to experience a decrease in power output/ performance. I can confirm this with my own experience as it took place twice, once when I bought a new bike, second time,, when my position was significantly altered during a refit. I think, that you will be just fine. Consulting with your fitter is a good thing to do and maybe going back for some tweaking is very much in line. Just like changing the running shoe brand, changing bikes and new position takes time to adjust to. |
2008-10-12 11:41 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Master 1651![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.The new geometry is going to work your muscles a differently. I would ride the P2C a few hundred miles to let my body adjust before I got concerned. |
|
2008-10-12 12:00 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Champion 6540![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() South Jersey | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.The transition from a road bike, even with clip-on aeros, to a tri bike is a big one. If you were fitted for it, just stick with it a bit. Good luck! I hated the transition from road to tri bike. Also, I just wanted to correct your stretching form as seen in your avatar. Notice how your back is slightly arched and your butt is sticking out a bit (no worries, my body would do the same). In any case, when doing that quad stretch, you don't want to get the stretch by pulling your leg back (making your quad more verticle). What you want do is grab the foot/ankle and pull up toward your butt in order to hold the leg bent (like you are doing in the picture), but rather than pulling your quad back, you're going to roll your pelvis forward, so as to create a straight line with your lower back and butt (not one that curves out like it is in the picture). You'll feel the stretch. Your quad won't be as verticle as it is in the picture but the stretch should be just as good. |
2008-10-12 1:39 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Extreme Veteran 504![]() SW Florida Gulf Coast | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Thank you VERY much for all of the replies. I appreciate them. I'm going to roll over all of the advice that I received here and continue to not only work with my bike fitter, but also spend more time in the saddle. Laur- Thanks for the stretching tip! I usually do try to rotate my pelvis forward, but I may have been in la-la land when my DH snapped that photo! LOL! Will have to try to concentrate on doing that stretch correctly even when zoning out. |
2008-10-12 1:45 PM in reply to: #1736880 |
Champion 6540![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() South Jersey | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.shellabree - 2008-10-12 2:39 PM Thank you VERY much for all of the replies. I appreciate them. I'm going to roll over all of the advice that I received here and continue to not only work with my bike fitter, but also spend more time in the saddle. Laur- Thanks for the stretching tip! I usually do try to rotate my pelvis forward, but I may have been in la-la land when my DH snapped that photo! LOL! Will have to try to concentrate on doing that stretch correctly even when zoning out. No worries - I was afraid I was overstepping my boudaries, but it stood out to me in the pic. Besides, you never know who else it might help. Good luck wiht the bike fit. It took me a few months before I felt normal and enjoyed riding my tri bike. |
2008-10-12 2:07 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Master 2355![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Houston, TX | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Well the picture is about useless without you being in cycling shoes and clipped in.. Did you change anything else? Cleat position? Is your seat height different than before? Even so moving forward on the bike, riding a more aggressive position is going to work your muscles differently. You're probably just depending on your quads more than you were before, this is a good thing though. Your quads are bigger and can produce more power than your calves. |
2008-10-12 3:55 PM in reply to: #1736910 |
Extreme Veteran 504![]() SW Florida Gulf Coast | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.smilford - 2008-10-12 3:07 PM Well the picture is about useless without you being in cycling shoes and clipped in.. Yeah... I know. It's just the only one that I have at the moment. Was just hoping for folks to use it as a general reference. Since nobody said, "your bike is obviously too small for you," I'm leaning towards accepting that it's just me getting used to the new geometry. Did you change anything else? Cleat position? Is your seat height different than before? Even so moving forward on the bike, riding a more aggressive position is going to work your muscles differently. You're probably just depending on your quads more than you were before, this is a good thing though. Your quads are bigger and can produce more power than your calves. I'm thinking that everyone here is right and that it just may take time. My position is obviously more aggressive than when I was on the road bike. Just feeling a bit paranoid with two tris coming up. Glad to know that other folks out there go through some growing/adjustment pains with their bikes as well. Edited by shellabree 2008-10-12 3:57 PM |
|
2008-10-12 5:49 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Master 2355![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Houston, TX | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Yea your position is fine(as much as I can tell from the picture), and a Cervelo is a good bike to go with if you have short legs and a long torso. Since you shouldn't have much issue dropping all those spacers and getting into a more aggressive position. Which people with short legs and long torso tend to have a problem with. Edited by smilford 2008-10-12 5:50 PM |
2008-10-14 10:32 AM in reply to: #1736910 |
Master 3546![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.smilford - 2008-10-12 3:07 PM Well the picture is about useless without you being in cycling shoes and clipped in.. For the record, I examed her position and found it to be a worthwhile post. Not nearly as creepy in person, |
2008-10-14 11:00 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Extreme Veteran 518![]() Sault Ste. Marie | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.nooooooooooo that bike is too nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want one right now!...... its either stick with my 1990 peugeot and buy electric drums, or buy a p2sl, or p2 2009.....argh sooo hard But yeah, im thinking different muscles, i hopefully dont have to go through it too bad when i buy a new bike (if i do), but i will be so pumped to take a carbon bike to top speed i wont even notice!!...i dont think ill ever get off. |
2008-10-14 11:12 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Expert 878![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Carmel | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.After you ride for a while and let you legs adjust if you are not getting any better or stronger keep in mind that 78 degrees is very aggressive and doesnt work for everyone. I am in the same boat as you with a longer torso and shorter legs and ended up going with an orbea instead of Cervelo bc 78 was too steep. Im pretty flexible too but when all was said and done im better off at a little shallower angle, you may be too. You can always put the seat on the shallow setting and then move it up on the rails, esp since you have some room since they swapped out your stem. Give it some time for your muscles to adjust but you have a lot of options for dialing into the right fit. Dont be afraid to go shallow bc the books and magazines say you should be steeper to save your legs for the run. If you train properly and you get your brick sessions in, your runs will be fine either way. |
2008-10-15 7:14 PM in reply to: #1741386 |
Extreme Veteran 504![]() SW Florida Gulf Coast | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Thanks again everyone for all of your help. My ride this evening bordered on miserable once again. I was looking back through my log (I don't log here, I log at runningahead.com) and noticed that my average speed is nearly 2 mph slower than it used to be for the same route. Talk about depressing. Anyway... I'm going to keep working at it; tweeking things... at least until I can't tweek any longer. If that doesn't work... up on Ebay it goes! Thanks again for the feedback... |
|
2008-10-15 8:21 PM in reply to: #1745578 |
Champion 6540![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() South Jersey | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Just keep working at, and make sure you get a good bike fit. I saw a decrease in power (and speed, even though that's tough to go by) when I switched from road bike with aeros to tri bike. |
2008-10-16 10:48 AM in reply to: #1736594 |
Expert 1103![]() ![]() Plano, TX | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Am I correct that you have a stronger running background than cycling? If so, you're hamstrings are likely more developed, relative to your quads. On your road bike, your hamstrings could play a greater role in the pedal stroke, giving you that extra power. However, whether you realized it or not, those same muscles you needed for the run were also getting fatigued during the bike segment. Switching to a tri bike has two advantages -- (1) possibly more aerodynamic position (or at least better fit while in a strong aero position) and (2) steeper seat angle, effectively shifting the muscle loading to a greater emphasis on the quadraceps. i.e. "saving" the hamstrings for the run. When I switched to a tri bike, I too found that my quads had a bit of adaptation to do. However, once those quads had built up a bit, I definitely saw better run times off the bike b/c my hamstrings weren't as tired. |
2008-10-16 3:40 PM in reply to: #1745578 |
Extreme Veteran 662![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Sunny San Diego | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.shellabree - 2008-10-15 4:14 PM Anyway... I'm going to keep working at it; tweeking things... at least until I can't tweek any longer. If that doesn't work... up on Ebay it goes! Don't give up on such a great bike so quickly. You might want to move the seat in the rear position and raise up the cockpit to slacken up your position. As you get more comfortable over the winter, you can progressively move the seat forward and lower your stem and bars. |
2008-10-16 3:42 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Master 2355![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Houston, TX | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.She is in a pretty laxed position right now, she just need time in the saddle, and probably more than she thinks. I know it took Lauren quite a while to get use to her bike. |
2008-10-16 4:05 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Extreme Veteran 662![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Sunny San Diego | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.I'm guessing that with the Trek + aerobars that your elbow pads are pretty high up. So from your very nice picture link, it looks like you can still flip your stem up and put the seat in the 74 degree position and you should be pretty much identical to your aero position on the Trek. Time in the saddle + little by little adjustments to steep and deep you should be fine and faster in no time. |
|
2008-10-16 4:36 PM in reply to: #1736594 |
Extreme Veteran 504![]() SW Florida Gulf Coast | Subject: RE: New P2C... lots of quad fatigue.Thanks again... with each new post, I receive even more great feedback. Someone above asked if I have more running experience than cycling and although I picked up both around the same time, I would have to say that I work at my running more than anything else. Aside from triathlon, I also love running road races. In reality, what I actually come from is a swimming background... not that that has much relevance to this post. LOL at the responses that I received in regards to putting my bike up on Ebay. Have no fear... that won't be happening. I know that there's a lot more work for me to do AND a lot of adjustments that can be done to the bike before I would ever call it a loss. I suppose cycling is a lot like running in that I just need to do more of it to get better at it. Living in South FL, I didn't do much outdoor cycling at all over the summer. It's just too hot. Instead I supplemented most of my cycling work with spin classes and other indoor cycling. Looks like I'll pay the price for that with my two fall tris. I'll know better next time... Thanks again for all of the great feedback!!! |
login




2008-10-12 8:23 AM
SW Florida Gulf Coast






View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK