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2008-10-12 8:32 AM

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Subject: What happened? Need your input
Ok so yesterday I had a seriously brutal Olympic race, it was only my second and I still haven't nailed the nutrition plan for it.  So I guess it started the night before when I didn't eat anything healthy for a pre-race meal.  For breakfast I had a powerbar and perpeteum, and an hour before the start I had an Amp energy drink and a gel right before the start.  The swim went fine and on the bike I was feeling good, and I ate 5 clif shot blocks and drank almost a full aero drink of Heed + some extra salt I had added to it.  When I got off the bike I felt great and my legs felt really strong.  I came out of T1 and took a gel immediately, and after about 300 yards after the gel is when I got the most painful cramps in my stomach I have ever experienced IN MY LIFE.  I have had some serious cramps while running, but this practically had me in tears not just because of the pain, but because of the anger of wanting to run so bad but not being able to.  It lasted the run segment and I had to stop probably 10 times just to bend over for a while, my pace never getting above a slow jog.  Does anybody have any insight as to what happened?  Could I have taken in too much salt on the bike which could have prevented me absorbing anything else? I know the gel played a part but how? HELP!!  Thank you in advance for any advice.


2008-10-12 8:49 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Pro
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Hmmm...just a thought but maybe you needed some plain water in there to wash down the gels and cliff shots?
2008-10-12 8:50 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Jon,

I've had similiar problems, (but not as severe) when I've taken a Hammer gel in T2 after ingesting alot (bottle) of Heed/Perp on the bike-leg.  I think the Hammer site says to wait 20-30 min. before you take another gel.  Haven't tried it yet, but your symptoms and MO sound similiar.  Also,  I can only speak for myself, but I could never use all the different sugars/fuels your using- Amp, Gel blocs, Hammer etc.  It will be hard to nail down the 'offender' when their are so many suspects.  Good Luck.

2008-10-12 8:59 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Master
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Take the guess work out. Let "Infinit Nutrition" custom design your nutritional supplement. One mix, one bottle...ez-pz. The only thing I have found better than their product is their  customer service.

(disclaimer: I am no way associated with Infinit Nututrion, their staff, their families, I have never ever even been to Michigan. I am just an extremely satisfied customer. )



Edited by ditchdoc 2008-10-12 8:59 AM
2008-10-12 9:04 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Tyler,
Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Jon311024 - 2008-10-12 8:32 AM Ok so yesterday I had a seriously brutal Olympic race, it was only my second and I still haven't nailed the nutrition plan for it.  So I guess it started the night before when I didn't eat anything healthy for a pre-race meal.  For breakfast I had a powerbar and perpeteum, and an hour before the start I had an Amp energy drink and a gel right before the start.  The swim went fine and on the bike I was feeling good, and I ate 5 clif shot blocks and drank almost a full aero drink of Heed + some extra salt I had added to it.  When I got off the bike I felt great and my legs felt really strong.  I came out of T1 and took a gel immediately, and after about 300 yards after the gel is when I got the most painful cramps in my stomach I have ever experienced IN MY LIFE.  I have had some serious cramps while running, but this practically had me in tears not just because of the pain, but because of the anger of wanting to run so bad but not being able to.  It lasted the run segment and I had to stop probably 10 times just to bend over for a while, my pace never getting above a slow jog.  Does anybody have any insight as to what happened?  Could I have taken in too much salt on the bike which could have prevented me absorbing anything else? I know the gel played a part but how? HELP!!  Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

Sounds like you didn't eat enough before the race.  A powerbar isn't gonna cut it...thats like only 200 calories. I eat atleast 2 bagels 2-3 hours before the race.  Oly isn't that far so I don't use all the expensive shot blocks and beans...but for a half I would.

2008-10-12 9:11 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Wow.. that's a lot of calories and carbs for an olympic race.  You might want to ease off the nutrition a bit.  You should definitely start with a healthy dinner and breakfast pre-race.  Maybe replace the HEED with water, cut the shot blocks and maybe take the gel about 15 minutes before the end of the bike leg so it has some time to clear your stomach before you run.

Hope that helps.



Edited by triOK 2008-10-12 9:13 AM


2008-10-12 9:14 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Eating a great deal more the night before, and at breakfast, and consuming less during the event would probably help. There are racing plans here on BT, I'm not sure if you need to upgrade your membership, which provide guidance for pacing and nutrition.
2008-10-12 9:19 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

for me, that would be way too many calories for an OLY.  during my last oly, i just drank about an aerobottle of water and 1 gel on the bike, and 1 gel right before the swim and that was it.  i probably could have used just a little bit more calories, but during the oly i had done previously, i drank HEED and had a gel and that was too much. 

like others have said, i like to eat bagels before the race (usually while driving there, if it is a couple hour drive).   

2008-10-12 9:22 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

I would guess that you stopped processing the calories you were ingesting for one of (or a combination of) the following reasons:

  1. Intensity - at high intensity you cannot process many calories, especially on the run
  2. Too many calories - it would appear that you ingested around 1000Cal from breakfast to the start of the run and probably 350 or so on the bike
  3. Too little water - not that you were dehydrated but with all concentrated fuel sources, you need to consume water in order to reduce the concentration in your stomach - otherwise your body may stop processing calories

Definitely experiement in training but for short course, you probably need many few calories than you have been led to believe; typically for an OD race I will consume about 500-600Cal from breakfast until the end of the race and only 100-200Cal during the race.  If you are interested, you can read some of my thoughts on short course nutrition here.

Shane

2008-10-12 9:22 AM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Yeah after some thinking I think having all that Heed plus a pack of shot blocks PLUS a gel was probably way too much to have just between the bike and beginning of run.  Next time I'll probably just lower the Heed concentrate, and maybe a couple of shot blocks or a gel, not both.
2008-10-12 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
For an Oly you are talking like a total of 500-600 cals start to finish and you can probably get by on less. It sounds like you had a whole lot more than that and too much in the last 30 min of the bike and as you started the run. I would practice some of that in your long bricks and see how it goes. I often can't drink very much in the last 15-20 min of the bike or eat anything until I have been up and running for a bit.


2008-10-12 10:47 AM
in reply to: #1736628

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
  If you are interested, you can read some of my thoughts on short course nutrition here.

Shane

Good Article! Thanks, Shane.  I have been WAY overdoing it. 

2008-10-12 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
I'm going to park myself in the "way too much nutrition" camp.  Maybe eat more for breakfast if you feel you need to, but during the race you shouldn't need that much..... more water, less sugar!!  I use Infinit now too, that stuff is awesome.  For an oly I would have a bottle of it on the bike and then just alternate between gatorade (or whatever they have) and water on the run.
2008-10-12 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
I second that it sounds like a whole lot of extra calories for an Oly.

Personally, I like to eat pasta the night before ... a bagel with peanut butter 3 hours before the race ... and maybe a gel or a sports drink during the race. For a Sprint or Olympic, I really don't worry much about calorie intake during the race.

... my two cents
2008-10-12 11:24 AM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

I agree with the others. You shouldn't need very many, if any, race-day calories for an Olympic distance race. Having said that, I'm assuming that you're not out there for four hours. I'd recommend 20 ounces of carbo drink on the bike. You need your blood in your legs, not your stomach.

Matt Cazalas
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2008-10-12 11:55 AM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Have you heard it enough yet?

This is what this Clyde puts down leading up to sprint race day

Dinner the evening before ~600 calories

Put a large bagel with 3 Tablespoons of Peanut Butter on my nightstand with a Gatorade.  Eat it and as soon as I wake up.  Drink a 12 oz cup of coffee.

Drink 8 oz of water on the drive to the race

Drink 8 oz of gatorade about 1/2 hour before the start

Two caffeinated gels on the bike 20 oz water

Grab water at every aid station.  Usually adds up to about 12 oz.

For my first Oly, I plan on doing the same, except that I will add some gatorade on the ride, and perhaps one more gel on the bike, and one on the run.

 

 

 

 



2008-10-12 8:00 PM
in reply to: #1736620

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
triOK - 2008-10-12 10:11 PM

Wow.. that's a lot of calories and carbs for an olympic race.  You might want to ease off the nutrition a bit.  You should definitely start with a healthy dinner and breakfast pre-race.  Maybe replace the HEED with water, cut the shot blocks and maybe take the gel about 15 minutes before the end of the bike leg so it has some time to clear your stomach before you run.

Hope that helps.

2X.  As I was reading it I thought I can't believe you are trying to get that much in.  A little more water.  Should have had more water less electrolytes.   

2008-10-14 1:24 PM
in reply to: #1736599

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The Natti
Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Jon311024 - 2008-10-12 8:32 AM

Ok so yesterday I had a seriously brutal Olympic race, it was only my second and I still haven't nailed the nutrition plan for it.  So I guess it started the night before when I didn't eat anything healthy for a pre-race meal.  For breakfast I had a powerbar and perpeteum, and an hour before the start I had an Amp energy drink and a gel right before the start.  The swim went fine and on the bike I was feeling good, and I ate 5 clif shot blocks and drank almost a full aero drink of Heed + some extra salt I had added to it.  When I got off the bike I felt great and my legs felt really strong.  I came out of T1 and took a gel immediately, and after about 300 yards after the gel is when I got the most painful cramps in my stomach I have ever experienced IN MY LIFE.  I have had some serious cramps while running, but this practically had me in tears not just because of the pain, but because of the anger of wanting to run so bad but not being able to.  It lasted the run segment and I had to stop probably 10 times just to bend over for a while, my pace never getting above a slow jog.  Does anybody have any insight as to what happened?  Could I have taken in too much salt on the bike which could have prevented me absorbing anything else? I know the gel played a part but how? HELP!!  Thank you in advance for any advice.


If your concentrations of the liquid in your gut get too high, then it is about the same thing as eating a cheeseburger. You will almost certainly have the issues described.

Simple it way way way back. You have about an hour and a half of sugar stored in your liver, you really do not need that much for an OLympic race.

Just make sure that what ever you are taking durring high heart rate situations is easily absorbed with the correct osmolality (isotonic). Only drink WATER with gels or solids so they are diluted. I would stay completely away from any solids for sprint racing.

My 2c
2008-10-14 1:26 PM
in reply to: #1736599

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Runner
Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
On top of what everyone else said, drop the salt tabs.  They definitely aggravated the situation as well.
2008-10-14 3:18 PM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
What effect do salt tabs have?  I thought they were a good thing.... should I be staying away from Endurolytes or Salt Caps?
2008-10-14 3:25 PM
in reply to: #1742328

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

Jon311024 - 2008-10-14 4:18 PM What effect do salt tabs have?  I thought they were a good thing.... should I be staying away from Endurolytes or Salt Caps?

You got more than enough electrolytes from the other stuff you took.  Overdo the electrolytes, and you'll cramp as well.



2008-10-14 3:32 PM
in reply to: #1736599

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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
I gotcha.
2008-10-14 3:53 PM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input

As everyone said, way too much of everything.  That is as much as some would take in for a HIM (other than water).

Make it much more simple.

And do not eat within 3 hours of the event, just hydrate and maybe a gel right before the start with water.  Eating in the window from 3 hours to 15 minutes before is the worst time since your stomach ends up working to digest the food and you start off lethargic as a result in the best case and with GI issues in the worst.

Going with Mike's product above you can get a blend that gets everything you need.  Or if you want to simplify it more, some gels and some water.

An oly. is relatively short in the big picture.  Your body has about 2 hours worth of glycogen stored in it (anywhere from 1,500 - 2,000 calories).  Supplement that with a few gels or a good drink concoction and you will be set.  By the time you are on the run, there is little you can take in that will actually get processed in time to use it unless you take it right out of transition.

My oly. nutrition plan in comparison??  Gu at 45 minutes and 15 minutes to go before the race.  Swim.  Quick drink in T1.  Once on the bike, one 20 oz. bottle of Gu20, usually one Gu (although I bring 2).  sometimes quick drink in T2.  On the run?  Splashes of fluids at each rest stop.

That's it.  Keep it simple.  It is better to race slightly depelted in a shorter event than to overdo it and get GI distress.

My opinion only ...........

2008-10-14 4:04 PM
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Gosh, I think you took in more in that Oly than I took in during a HIM (7 hours!).

Seriously, just way too much nutrition. Everyone gave great advice. I'm sure you will get it worked out next time.

The last Oly I did, because I was training for an IM and the race was just a training day... I completely forgot about nutrition. I lost the Shot blocks I was going to eat before the race. Oopsss. Just did the race on what I ate for breakfast (350 calories) and water, and maybe 8 oz of Gatorade.

I had a great race and did better than I thought I would!

==============
Here is everything you consumed.. I wanted to list it just to see how much it really was:

Powerbar
Perpeteum
Amp Energy drink
A gel
5 Clif Shots
Full areo bottle of Heed with extra salt
A gel

Edited by KSH 2008-10-14 4:07 PM
2008-10-14 4:14 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: What happened? Need your input
Just toss a couple bottles of prefered sports drink on the bike and see how it goes.. shouldn't need much more than that.
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