Racing and marathon training

My opinion:

Just do the tri, don't worry about the missed run mileage.

Do the seven easy, then run the half.

Sounds like you are doing Higdon's Int. 1 plan .........

I would substitute the sprint completely for your Sunday run.

If you want to race the half, then skip the MP run on Saturday and go for it on the half!

I'm not sure whether I trained properly, but I ran into both of your scenarios this season and this is what I did:

I did the sprint tri, but did not do the scheduled long run (11 miles) for that week.   I just picked up again the next week with the marathon mileage.

I also raced a half marathon.  The long run that week was scheduled for 14 miles.  I had a very rough time getting back on track the next week since I was wiped out from the half, but I was glad I did it. 

Thank you!  I'll admit that the sprint tri really tired me out and there was no way I was going to run again that day.   

Nice job with your training so far! Good luck with the runs and upcoming races

I used his Int. 1 plan for my first marathon that I trained for (and finished).  Just got stuck in doing my M pace runs way too fast and then thinking that I could actually hold those is a race!  (Even though I did all my long runs at a completely different pace).  Ended up being a disaster as I was toast by mile 16 or so .....

You just need to factor in that if you push the 1/2 that you will need a solid week at least to really recover from it ... maybe longer.

I'm not Rick, but I've used Higdon's Int II plan.

I personally don't agree with his beginner plans.  In my mind, his intermediate plans are better beginner plans (because they have higher mileage).

I used the Int II plan for my first marathon, and I hit my goals, so I was happy.  I've never used another one since then, because they just didn't match what I was doing.

All my long runs were in the 8:50 - 9:15 range, including my two 20 milers for that plan.

But by the end of the plan my M pace runs were down into the 7:30's.  I really turned them into tempo runs and not M paced runs.  My planned strategy and goal was a sub-4, which I was already running on my long days with no issues.  Stupid inexperienced me thought since I could rip off the 7:30's on my M runs that I could then hold it through the race.  I "turned it off" after about 7 miles into the race knowing that there was no way in hell that I could hold it.  But the damage was done.  Hit the 1/2 at 1:43, then blew up from 17-ish on having to stop and stretch with cramps.  I totally stopped running around 21 and walked the rest.  Finished in 3:58 (or a 2:15 for the back half).

I think his plans are okay.  I had my friend use the beginner plan and follow it word for word.  I then paced him to a 3:57 and used it as a long training day in my plan for my first BQ attempt that I was going for 6 weeks later.

But I prefer Pfitzinger-Douglas' plans far and away.  If you want to be truly prepared to put up the best time you can at that moment, they are the way to go.  But they are not for the first timer, or the inexperienced.  They are a little bit aggressive.  I used a harder one of their plans in preparation for my sub-3 attempt that I was going for in March.  If not for getting the flu the week of the race and DNF'ing I was well prepared for the race based on the training.

Actually, I bet more people would have better success at the half by doing a standard marathon plan.  The higher mileage would definitely be a benefit.

I don't think using the marathon plan is bad at all.  Like I said, I think the higher mileage will be beneficial.

In regard to your longer term goals, I think that as long as you keep the easy runs easy, burnout should not be much of an issue.  Boredom, maybe, but that's when you start throwing in the occasional tempo or medium intensity run to spice it up.

IIRC, the peak for the beginner is 40 on 4 runs (two 5's, a 10 and a 20)??  And it is 3 weeks out from the end of the plan.

So if you go to do the last 7 weeks, just 4 weeks after your half, you'd be tasked to run a 10 mid week and a 20 at the end of the week.  Then after that it would be in taper-mode and the volume cuts back accordingly.

I'm not sure if doing that is the best idea for winter maint./improvement.  If you want to PM or e-mail me and we can throw around some ideas so we don't totally hijack the thread, that'd be okay.

I am in the same sort of state as both Erin and Mirg.  I also started building run mileage/base following compartment syndrome surgery, I am training for my first marathon in Nov., and I have a sprint tri scheduled Oct. 18. 

Since surgery I have worked with an excellent tri coach who keeps me healthy -- I could not run one mile before the surgery (ever in my life) and didn't want to get an overuse injury by overdoing it now that it's not painful to run, and I was wary of the stock plans given my history.  He balances s/b/r well based on my needs/abilities and has scheduled an additional 10k run after completing the sprint race.  The three weeks prior, my long runs build 12, 14, 18.  However, the race is a big club event (and it's a very hilly point-to-point bike ride), so we'll see if I end up running that 10k in a strange town or drinking margaritas with 250 other tri club members...

So is that the difference between Higdon's novice plan and the Int plan? I noticed that the Int. plans have at least one run a week at MP and they have two 20 mile runs as opposed to the one 20 mile run in the novice plan.

My Oly taper will put me at a weekly volume closer to what the novice full plan starts at. I think the jump to the Int I may be too much. Does that matter eventhough I've been consistant for the past 7 weeks with 4 more to go until my Oly?

I'd need to average a 9:09 pace to come in just under 2:00:00 for the half marathon. So I'd want to do the MP runs at that pace or a little faster (maybe 8:45-9:00, which is something I can do reasonable comfortably now) and then do all my other runs at something like 9:30-10:00 per mile?

Well, the "lowest" level of the plans has you topping out at 55 miles a week.  I did the 24 week plan that did that and then I also have done the 18 week 70 and under plan (my peak month during that was 264 miles in January).  Because there are tempo, interval, intermediate races and more long mid week runs, it is defnitely designed around someone who can handle the vloume and frequency.  In most cases it is min. 5 days a week runs.  I even had some two-a-days in the higher volume plan.

I personally would not prescribe one of their plans until they are comfortably running 30+ mile weeks consistantly.

Thanks! I'll send you a PM later today.