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2008-10-12 11:23 AM

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2008-10-12 12:01 PM
in reply to: #1736747

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Subject: RE: Running style
PennState - 2008-10-12 12:23 PM

Here is a short video of my running style. I am working with a POSE coach and am adapting SOME of the method. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome. Be hard if you like

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8835382572703917561&hl=en

Form is a bit off d't 21 miler yesterday. I am aiming for mid-foot strike and trying to keep the cadence high and not landing my feet in front of the center of gravity...

I'm at work right now so I can't view the video (yes, I know it's Sunday...grr). But, dude, why you changing your running form?? I can, however, appreciate trying not to land out in front of you, though. It's the footstrike I'm wondering most about.



Edited by LaurenSU02 2008-10-12 12:03 PM
2008-10-12 12:42 PM
in reply to: #1736747

Coach
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Subject: RE: Running style

the reality is that to do some sort of runing analysis you need different shots (side, front and back) and you also need to run at different speeds (jog, steady, threshold) to be able to give proper feedback. but from the video you look comfortable which is a big thing.

ETA . the only wway to evaluate your foot-strike, you need high speed camera and anaylize it frame by frame. The majority of runners are hill strike runners including the elites. I agre with Lauren, focusing to land in front of your hips is important, changing your stride, not so much.



Edited by amiine 2008-10-12 12:44 PM
2008-10-12 12:45 PM
in reply to: #1736747

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Subject: RE: Running style

I can't tell much from the video, I think you need to be able to feel where the main force is on your foot when it strikes. Pictures can be misleading ... i wonder if we really run the same on a treadmill as outside also. You might want to try a little barefoot running on some level grassy surface to help get a better feel for fore/mid foot running style.

 

 

2008-10-12 12:45 PM
in reply to: #1736747

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Running style
Why did you start running and then take a drink out of your bottle? That's too difficult for me.
2008-10-12 1:38 PM
in reply to: #1736747

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2008-10-12 1:55 PM
in reply to: #1736877

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Subject: RE: Running style
Hm, definitely a change from how you ran at LP (less of a heel strike, although not sure if it's eliminated totally). Why are you changing it, though, especially when your run volume is currently so high and when you've had much success with your regular running form?
2008-10-12 1:55 PM
in reply to: #1736747

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Edited by PennState 2008-10-12 1:57 PM
2008-10-12 1:56 PM
in reply to: #1736898

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Subject: RE: Running style
haha - I don't know why I am responding to this thread as if I actually have any clue what I am talking about .
2008-10-13 7:29 AM
in reply to: #1736899

Runner
Subject: RE: Running style
PennState - 2008-10-12 2:55 PM

To be precise Lauren, I'm not really changing much.... I do know how you feel on this issue.... I'm just trying to shorten up stride length, work on keeping the centre of gravity in front of the landing foot, and avoid hard heel striking....

Not really doing the whole POSE thing

Why on earth would you want to shorten your stride length?  It's one of the primary determinants of speed.

Center of gravity should be OVER the foot, not in front.  Drop a plumb line from your ear, it should line up with about the middle of your foot.

If you want to work on stride mechanics, go run hills.  Bound up, focusing on stride length, and run down with a high turnover.

 Hill guide

2008-10-13 7:57 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Running style
<------ Sips on his Earl Grey tea and giggles.


2008-10-13 8:31 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Champion
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Subject: RE: Running style
Damn, I'm at work and can't see the video, but I will when I get home just to see Fred in running shorts!
2008-10-13 8:40 AM
in reply to: #1737918

Expert
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Subject: RE: Running style
Scout7 - 2008-10-13 8:29 AM
PennState - 2008-10-12 2:55 PM

To be precise Lauren, I'm not really changing much.... I do know how you feel on this issue.... I'm just trying to shorten up stride length, work on keeping the centre of gravity in front of the landing foot, and avoid hard heel striking....

Not really doing the whole POSE thing

Why on earth would you want to shorten your stride length? It's one of the primary determinants of speed.

I'm sure you know the answer to this question.  Obviously I don't know whether OP should shorten his stride, but there is such a thing as overstriding, which often leads to excessive heel striking.

Center of gravity should be OVER the foot, not in front. Drop a plumb line from your ear, it should line up with about the middle of your foot.

 

x2 

 

If you want to work on stride mechanics, go run hills. Bound up, focusing on stride length, and run down with a high turnover.

Yes, this works, in my experience.  Also just running fast on a flat works, as many people's mechanics improve when they run faster.  Some people are also helped by running barefoot a bit.

2008-10-13 9:01 AM
in reply to: #1738037

Runner
Subject: RE: Running style
I didn't see the video, but from what I've gathered I don't think the OP has a problem with overstriding.  If he does, I don't think shortening the stride is necessarily the best answer, though; working on getting the foot to land underneath is.
2008-10-13 10:19 AM
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2008-10-13 8:49 PM
in reply to: #1736823

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2008-10-13 10:30 PM
in reply to: #1737918

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Subject: RE: Running style
Scout7 - 2008-10-13 7:29 AM
PennState - 2008-10-12 2:55 PM

To be precise Lauren, I'm not really changing much.... I do know how you feel on this issue.... I'm just trying to shorten up stride length, work on keeping the centre of gravity in front of the landing foot, and avoid hard heel striking....

Not really doing the whole POSE thing

Why on earth would you want to shorten your stride length?  It's one of the primary determinants of speed.

My thoughts exactly. I'm a firm believer in the fact that there are some minor mechanical tweaks that everyone should make, but that, for the most part, you should work with the natural form that you have. I feel that you rarely ever should manipulate your stride length to match what you perceive to be optimal. Your body will more often operate at what is an optimal length for you (including naturally shortening the stride up hills and increasing it down hills).

 You have obviously had good success with your natural stride length, and it may take too much time and energy to alter your length and make your body adjust to a stride that it is not accustomed to. I would focus more on cutting out the heel-striking and then work on making your body operate as efficiently as possible based upon your current mechanics (which seem to be rock solid, stride length included). I have a naturally long stride. Even back in my heyday (sub 15:30 5k, sub 4:25 mile) I had a long stride that worked well.

I guess I live by the old adage "shake what your momma gave you." Sage advice by the Black Eyed Peas.

2008-10-14 12:04 AM
in reply to: #1736899

Elite
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Subject: RE: Running style
PennState - 2008-10-12 1:55 PM
Not really doing the whole POSE thing


You asked for tough love so here's some: do POSE or not, but taking bits and pieces from POSE and trying to Frankenstein a new running style is not a good idea. You're better off with what you were doing. I'm a big fan of the POSE/Chi Running methods (I think the two are very similar but I probably lean toward the Chi, but like the scientific explanation of POSE) and would recommend the technique. However, if it's not for you, that's fine, too, I'm not an evangelist.
2008-10-14 6:13 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Tyler,
Subject: RE: Running style
You look stiff. With that said your head looked level from the video. You want to keep your head straight if you were on stage. Your arms/shoulders were a bit too tight....ok really they looked way too tight, up high or whatever. Your hands should be swinging past your hips. A good practice is to let your hands graze your hips when you run. As for as your legs go, it looked liked one of those trail runners shuffling. Really couldn't tell about your feet.
2008-10-14 6:36 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Elite
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Subject: RE: Running style
Everyone start reading this and learn from my mistakes. I switched from heel striking to forefoot last winter and ended up with a stress fracture in my 2nd metatarsal head. Didn't have to worry about foot strike after that, since I couldn't run for 4 months!
Work with what you have, don't try to completely adapt to something different. Fred, I know you are doing this the right way already, but I want to warn other people that there is no "right" way to run and to be careful when messing around with your foot strike!
2008-10-14 6:43 AM
in reply to: #1740303

Master
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Subject: RE: Running style
kmill23 - 2008-10-13 9:49 PM
All the set up time, tug on the tongue of the shoe, turn the treadmill on, get up to speed, then drink! LOL.



Maybe he's practicing for running thru aid stations.



2008-10-14 6:55 AM
in reply to: #1740626

Master
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Subject: RE: Running style
MikeTheBear - 2008-10-14 1:04 AM

PennState - 2008-10-12 1:55 PM
Not really doing the whole POSE thing


You asked for tough love so here's some: do POSE or not, but taking bits and pieces from POSE and trying to Frankenstein a new running style is not a good idea. You're better off with what you were doing. I'm a big fan of the POSE/Chi Running methods (I think the two are very similar but I probably lean toward the Chi, but like the scientific explanation of POSE) and would recommend the technique. However, if it's not for you, that's fine, too, I'm not an evangelist.


I feel the same way about Chi/Pose. Both are good, pose is more scientific. I say keep trying. I've been trying to "get" pose method for two years. I finally think something clicked yesterday. hahaha, I'm a slow learner. What clicked for me in yesterday's run was lifting my feet up higher during recovery. That really made me run faster and feel easier. When I was just trying to lean and get gravity, it felt hard and my HR shot up. (Thanks to watching the men's run at Kona for making me think to try lifting my feet higher...they kept commenting about how Craig Alexander was lifting his feet so high)

I'm not a great runner (YET), but I saw you bending at the hips in the video. I think you are supposed to lean with your whole body. (very slightly)

Always think Kaizen when tri-ing to get better: Kaizen is a method of industrial quality control that stresses continuous incremental improvements. The word originates from the Japanese words ‘Kai’ meaning continuous and ‘zen’ meaning improvement. Kaizen has connotations of continuous, gradual, orderly and never-ending improvement, the willingness to constantly, relentlessly pursue improvement a small step at a time.
2008-10-14 7:21 AM
in reply to: #1740716

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Subject: RE: Running style

Tri Take Me Away - 2008-10-14 7:36 AM Everyone start reading this and learn from my mistakes. I switched from heel striking to forefoot last winter and ended up with a stress fracture in my 2nd metatarsal head. Didn't have to worry about foot strike after that, since I couldn't run for 4 months!
Work with what you have, don't try to completely adapt to something different. Fred, I know you are doing this the right way already, but I want to warn other people that there is no "right" way to run and to be careful when messing around with your foot strike!

Like Jess, when I switched from heel striker to mid foot striker I lost 3-4 months with different injuries...PF and then achillies issues. Be careful as I think the older you are the harder it is on your body to make changes. About 6 months after I struggled with this issue I read an article that warned older folks about changing running styles in the exact way I did....that often injuries occured.

2008-10-14 7:39 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Fishers, IN
Subject: RE: Running style
Personally, I think you look pretty natural - particularly for running on a treadmill.  I agree with the sentiments expressed by some of the others.  Unless you have a big history of injuries, I would not deviate from the natural stride that my body has adapted to through the years of running miles of training.     
2008-10-14 7:55 AM
in reply to: #1736747

Master
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Chapel Hill, NC
Subject: RE: Running style
I have to disagree with the folks saying to just run however you naturally feel like running. By observing myself on the treadmill I saw that my natural running style was full of unnecessary body movements: bobbing my head up and down, rocking my shoulders side to side, twisting my hips too much, flicking my left hand badkwards, overstriding, and my feet staying on the ground too long. It is good to set up your camera from different angles, as someone else suggested. I think I saw more from the front than from the side.

I spent the last year working on my running style trying to get rid of these flaws and improve efficiency. Mostly leaning toward Pose Method, but also got the Evolution DVD and also kept Chi in mind (which I had read two year ago). If you improve your efficiency, you may not run a ton faster, BUT you will be able to maintain a good pace for a longer period of time because you aren't wasting energy. That is what I have found. Hal Higdon says "The winner is often the one who slows down the least". It has paid off for me in my races. I got a PR run split this year in my A race, which also was a PR 10k time for me. And I still have along way to go at improving. Kaizen.

PS: I had to focus on correcting one flaw at a time. It was too frustrating to try and fix it all at once!

Edited by keyone 2008-10-14 8:03 AM
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