General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok? Rss Feed  
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2008-09-26 12:14 AM

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Subject: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?

I'm pretty new to swimming but have definitely improved a lot in the last 2-3 months thanks to Total Immersion. I bought the DVD and book, and did a lot of the drills, and sure enough, I'm swimming on my side with good rotation, with corresponding improvements in stroke number (13-14 per 25m) and speed (1:35/100m allout sprint, 1:55/100 on endurance swims.)

My question: On the stroke right after I breathe, my leading arm (the leading one already  in the water) does a "cross-body" type stroke as I roll to the other side after the breath. Meaning that my right arm in the water reaches across my body to my left thigh during the stroke. This motion seems to accelerate the roll by pulling my body into the roll as well as forward.

I tried to eliminate this cross-body motion in the past few days, and try to "swim on rails" as I've heard, with more parallel strokes that don't cross my body, but my stroke count and swim times get a LOT worse. I definitely lose a lot of the rotational power without the cross-body stroke movement. 

Should I keep trying to eliminate this cross-body stroke, or should I keep it, judging by my improved performance with it? 

 



Edited by agarose2000 2008-09-26 12:15 AM


2008-09-26 1:06 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Expert
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Eliminate it. You're using it as a crutch to make up for your crappy crappy roll. In the long run you won't want to do it, so why do it now? You can learn to roll without using your arm, but only if you stop using your arm.
2008-09-26 1:08 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
your improved performance is simply coming from swimming more. the cross body stroke is not ok. you dont pull as much water and your recovery stroke is thrown off. i often see this stroke with novice swimmers who rotate too much on their side to breath. the reason why you slow down when you try to eliminate this cross body stroke is because you have improper breathing techniques which causes you to sink in the water when you breath.
2008-09-26 1:13 AM
in reply to: #1697787

Master
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?

Good comments. The x-body roll has gotta go! Now for the hard work....

 I'm doing the Total Immersion method, which says to "roll as far as the air is" rather than turning the neck. I end up completely on my side, and possibly even more so, even as far as partially on my back. Perhaps I need to start to reduce the amount of rotation on this breathing roll?

 



Edited by agarose2000 2008-09-26 1:15 AM
2008-09-26 6:04 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Tyler,
Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
I'm not sure what you mean but as you come down with that arm, bend your elbow as you pull towards you then follow through by your hips.
2008-09-26 6:06 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
It's wasted motion and wasted energy.  In addition it will cause you to wobble back and forth in the water causing more turbulance and slowing you down.


2008-09-26 9:35 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Veteran
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Plano, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Agreed on the advice above...drop the bad habit before it becomes too engrained.

Two methods to help you focus on keeping that pull straight/perpendicular:

1. Act like you are painting the bottom of the pool with your fingertips.

2. Act like you are climbing up a ladder.
2008-09-26 9:37 AM
in reply to: #1698342

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
That was one of the first things the swim coach I hired had me get rid of.  Made my pool splits drop immediately with no extra effort.  Now I do a specific drill to work on that so I do not cross my centerline anymore.  It is really effective.
2008-09-26 10:18 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Don't do this!!! You can really injure yourself.

I hurt my shoulder doing this to the point that I couldn't lift my arm above my head for two weeks. (AND I was taking swimming lessons at the time. GRR!)

To this day, that spot hurts if I press on it and gets tired if I do too much.
2008-09-26 10:22 AM
in reply to: #1698348

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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?

Daremo - 2008-09-26 9:37 AM That was one of the first things the swim coach I hired had me get rid of.  Made my pool splits drop immediately with no extra effort.  Now I do a specific drill to work on that so I do not cross my centerline anymore.  It is really effective.

Rick, care to elaborate?  On the drill, that is...

2008-09-26 10:42 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
In TI you pretty much just pull down the track to your same sid hip and then up out of the water back to your ear. A 2 day TI course may help you nail the technique as they videotape you under water. There is a basic and an advanced class. But ya agree with others that form is key in swimming and overuse issues are best avoided.


2008-09-26 10:48 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?

Crossing the center line will have you zig zag down the pool.  On your breath stroke, you can compensate for starting your stroke out a bit farther.  One of my favorite swimming DVDs teaches this:

 

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/swimshop/shop_detail.asp?iPid=1514&iCatId=3



Edited by giaramita 2008-09-26 10:54 AM
2008-09-26 10:57 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Like they said, get rid of it.

You should think about entering your hands on a clock... your head is at 12:00. You should enter your left hand/arm at 11:00 and enter your right hand/arm at 1:00.
2008-09-26 11:03 AM
in reply to: #1698493

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?

sparco - 2008-09-26 11:22 AM Rick, care to elaborate?  On the drill, that is...

One arm extended holding onto a kick board, other arm does one handed pull just like you would normally do, rotating your body and all that.

If your paddling arm slaps the kickboard, you are crossing the center line!

I will do 100 yards with each arm this way as part of my drill sessions.  I usually use a paddle for it, and will sometimes throw on some zoomers (fins) to help keep myself balanced in the water better.

This will give you instant feedback as to whether or not you are crossing the center.

The other one she had me do that I do not do as much is the "monkey swim" where you swim with your head up and try to get your elbows up on the recovery.  Since you are not rolling your body, it is almost physically impossible to do this sort of swim crossing your center.  It really gives you a wide arm spread out near your shoulders.  She'd have me do this 1/2 a length and then transition it right into a normal free stroke.  You'd be amazed how this keeps your arms wide and out of the center line!



Edited by Daremo 2008-09-26 11:06 AM
2008-09-26 11:15 AM
in reply to: #1698648

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Daremo - 2008-09-26 11:03 AM

One arm extended holding onto a kick board, other arm does one handed pull just like you would normally do, rotating your body and all that.

If your paddling arm slaps the kickboard, you are crossing the center line!

I will do 100 yards with each arm this way as part of my drill sessions.  I usually use a paddle for it, and will sometimes throw on some zoomers (fins) to help keep myself balanced in the water better.

This will give you instant feedback as to whether or not you are crossing the center.

Thanks Rick.

Have you ever tried this without the kick board, just keeping the one arm extended and rolling to breathe after the pull?  Kind of like the 'catchup' drill, except the lead arm never goes into a pull...

I guess the 'catchup' drill would do a similar thing as far as keeping you from crossing the centerline. 

Catchup drill: Swim the crawl.  Keep lead arm out in front and DO NOT START PULL until the other hand finishes pull, enters water and is 'even' with the lead hand.

2008-09-26 11:43 AM
in reply to: #1697787

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok?
Yes, I do catch up as well, but more to work on my glide and extension than the centerline.  The reason?  Well, most people tend to want to touch the other hand.  Next thing you know, you are crossing over again .....


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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim stroke question - is a "cross-body" stroke ok? Rss Feed