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Thoughts on kicking during swim
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 2008-10-13 2:05 PM |
Expert  1010  Greer, SC |  Subject: Thoughts on kicking during swimJust wanted to get everyones thoughts on kicking during the swim. I am a pretty good swimmer. (swam competitively for several years). I had a decent kick, but have heard many people not kicking during the swim to save it for the bike and run. It makes good sense to me, but wanted to know everyone else's thoughts. I know obviously the more I kick the faster I go. Therefore getting my legs stronger will help my kick, bike, and run. |
| 2008-10-13 2:38 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim I doubt it is truely to save the legs for the run so much (very different muscles though involving the legs) but rather many of us do not have the swim fitness to keep things very aerobic if we burn it up in the kick. They say most of the speed comes through the pull versus the kick so you use the very different "pull muscles". I would think if you have the fitness, get out of the water and then deal with the bike/run. Edited by rc63413 2008-10-13 2:39 PM |
| 2008-10-13 2:41 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Expert 934   FL | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim I kick but really just enought to aid in overall form. When I start to kick for propulsion, I get winded/tired much faster. |
| 2008-10-13 2:46 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Expert 946 Barrington Area, IL | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim All the research I have don has said to kick enough to keep you body properly aligned and help you with your swim roll - but not so much you are being depleted for the other 2 legs. When training I kick more than when I raced - I agree that it will build your strength for all disciplines. |
| 2008-10-13 2:46 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
| New user 143 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim ^^ same for me. If I don't kick, my legs start to sink a bit which will wear out my arms faster. When I do kick, I keep the kicks very shallow and time them to my strokes in order to maintain a stable breathing pattern. |
| 2008-10-13 2:48 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
| Extreme Veteran 505 Lakeland, FL | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim I swam competitivly in high school but never had much of a kick then, so I have continued with the kick that I always had, which is a two beat crossover. I would say try it out in a swim/bike brick and see if you notice a differance in fatigue. |
| 2008-10-13 3:08 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Veteran 176 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim Here I am thinking I wasn't kicking enough! I honestly do not kick much, but I do not have a great swim technique |
| 2008-10-13 4:53 PM in reply to: #1739195 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim flmonkey_gbp - 2008-10-13 12:48 PM I swam competitivly in high school but never had much of a kick then, so I have continued with the kick that I always had, which is a two beat crossover. This is the same thing for me. I have always swam distance freestyle using a two beat crossover kick. |
| 2008-10-13 5:14 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
| Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim I kick just enough to keep my feet from sinking as well. Usually that's 2 kicks per stroke. Might be 4 if I'm feeling froggy. |
| 2008-10-13 5:18 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Regular 204 BA, Oklahoma | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim Ditto on the 2-beat crossover kick in high school when I swam competitively.
Out of curiosity, were you two others who had this same kick by any chance...long distance swimmers? I was a distance swimmer, and I found that many other folks who swam distance had slower kick beats like me. I have always tried to work towards getting a 6-beat kick, so I would have it when I needed it...no way I can ever do an 8-beat kick like sprinters do though. |
| 2008-10-13 6:57 PM in reply to: #1739737 |
| Veteran 521 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim toader - 2008-10-13 5:18 PM Ditto on the 2-beat crossover kick in high school when I swam competitively.
Out of curiosity, were you two others who had this same kick by any chance...long distance swimmers? I was a distance swimmer, and I found that many other folks who swam distance had slower kick beats like me. I have always tried to work towards getting a 6-beat kick, so I would have it when I needed it...no way I can ever do an 8-beat kick like sprinters do though. I used to swim sprints in high school and had a monster kick. Now that I am doing to tris, I had to cut my kick down because I was gassing early. I was burning myself out in the pool before I even got to the bike or the run. Now it is a lot better. |
| 2008-10-13 7:11 PM in reply to: #1739195 |
Champion 5782 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim flmonkey_gbp - 2008-10-13 12:48 PM I swam competitivly in high school but never had much of a kick then, so I have continued with the kick that I always had, which is a two beat crossover. I would say try it out in a swim/bike brick and see if you notice a differance in fatigue. X2 to all of the above comment. One thing I did try that I found helpful was to up my kick intensity a bit at the end of my HIM swim (while staying relaxed) specifically to limber up my legs for the bike...I think that actually did help me. |
| 2008-10-13 8:03 PM in reply to: #1739182 |
Extreme Veteran 961 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim Wolff27 - 2008-10-13 2:46 PM ...but not so much you are being depleted for the other 2 legs. Having 4 legs must quite an advantage on race day, but does it mean you have to train twice as long for them all to get in shape? |
| 2008-10-13 8:28 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Master 1848 Canandaigua | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim Kick who? My feet are steering only. |
| 2008-10-13 9:33 PM in reply to: #1739163 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim rc63413 - 2008-10-13 2:38 PM I doubt it is truely to save the legs for the run so much (very different muscles though involving the legs) but rather many of us do not have the swim fitness to keep things very aerobic if we burn it up in the kick. They say most of the speed comes through the pull versus the kick so you use the very different "pull muscles". I would think if you have the fitness, get out of the water and then deal with the bike/run.
I disagree. When I used to swim my kick and my pull were about the same. In an all sprint my kick and my pull were probably within 1 second in a 100 and for just doing regular sets my kick was slightly slower, merely because I used paddles for the pull. Most of the speed comes from the pull when you don't have a good kick is my opinion
Having said that I don't kick a ton anymore for my races because it does tire me out faster. |
| 2008-10-13 10:47 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Expert 1706 NoVA | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim +all the other former competitive swimmers above.... I was also a distance swimmer (and later a coach) and I think a 2 beat kick is very tri appropriate---even good distance swimmers max at 4 beat kicks and that's usually for middle distance....nothing wrong with picking up your kick the last 100 meters or so in the swim for a tri---that being said I wouldn't blow it up into a 6 or 8 beat kick for that long....sure does take a lot out of you.... |
| 2008-10-14 7:52 AM in reply to: #1739737 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim toader - 2008-10-13 6:18 PM Ditto on the 2-beat crossover kick in high school when I swam competitively.
Out of curiosity, were you two others who had this same kick by any chance...long distance swimmers? I was a distance swimmer, and I found that many other folks who swam distance had slower kick beats like me. I have always tried to work towards getting a 6-beat kick, so I would have it when I needed it...no way I can ever do an 8-beat kick like sprinters do though. I swam mid-distance in high school and was just never good at being a kicker when swimming freestyle. I also did IMs, too, so that didn't need freestyle kick. |
| 2008-10-14 7:42 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim From the completely swim-ignorant side of the room, what's a 2-beat crossover? |
| 2008-10-14 8:46 PM in reply to: #1740148 |
Expert 946 Barrington Area, IL | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim wingsfan - 2008-10-13 8:03 PM Wolff27 - 2008-10-13 2:46 PM ...but not so much you are being depleted for the other 2 legs. Having 4 legs must quite an advantage on race day, but does it mean you have to train twice as long for them all to get in shape? You got me there!!!  I had to look at it twice to get it - you are on game today!! |
 2008-10-14 9:38 PM in reply to: #1743002 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2008-10-14 10:50 PM in reply to: #1739066 |
| Expert 683 Fort Worth, Texas | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim I'd kinda like to know, too. I'm a reluctant kicker except to try to keep on balance. I think I need to kick a bit more in my swim. |
| 2008-10-14 11:07 PM in reply to: #1743002 |
| Master 1728 portland, or | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim DrPete - 2008-10-14 4:42 PM From the completely swim-ignorant side of the room, what's a 2-beat crossover?  scott |
| 2008-10-14 11:54 PM in reply to: #1740450 |
| Houston | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim JoshR - 2008-10-13 9:33 PM rc63413 - 2008-10-13 2:38 PM I doubt it is truely to save the legs for the run so much (very different muscles though involving the legs) but rather many of us do not have the swim fitness to keep things very aerobic if we burn it up in the kick. They say most of the speed comes through the pull versus the kick so you use the very different "pull muscles". I would think if you have the fitness, get out of the water and then deal with the bike/run.
I disagree. When I used to swim my kick and my pull were about the same. In an all sprint my kick and my pull were probably within 1 second in a 100 and for just doing regular sets my kick was slightly slower, merely because I used paddles for the pull. Most of the speed comes from the pull when you don't have a good kick is my opinion
Having said that I don't kick a ton anymore for my races because it does tire me out faster. Or maybe your pull was bad  |
| 2008-10-15 5:51 AM in reply to: #1739066 |
| Veteran 108 Key West, Florida | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim Hi all, Here is my .02! I asked the same question once on whether to kick or not to kick, and the answer was . . . "Specificity of Training" if you train kicking for propulsion more so then just for balance, you are building that strength to perform the same effort when you race. So I guess it is only you can decide though training which is better and how much kick is for balance and how much is for propulsion, and balance it so you are not worn out by the run. "Races are never won on the swim, but they sure can be lost" - ? |
| 2008-10-15 8:00 AM in reply to: #1743346 |
| Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Thoughts on kicking during swim pengy - 2008-10-14 11:54 PM JoshR - 2008-10-13 9:33 PM Or maybe your pull was bad rc63413 - 2008-10-13 2:38 PM I doubt it is truely to save the legs for the run so much (very different muscles though involving the legs) but rather many of us do not have the swim fitness to keep things very aerobic if we burn it up in the kick. They say most of the speed comes through the pull versus the kick so you use the very different "pull muscles". I would think if you have the fitness, get out of the water and then deal with the bike/run.
I disagree. When I used to swim my kick and my pull were about the same. In an all sprint my kick and my pull were probably within 1 second in a 100 and for just doing regular sets my kick was slightly slower, merely because I used paddles for the pull. Most of the speed comes from the pull when you don't have a good kick is my opinion
Having said that I don't kick a ton anymore for my races because it does tire me out faster.
I considered that but then I figured my entire teams pull would have to be bad since I was going the fastest |
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