General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HRM or feel? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-10-13 6:16 PM

Member
45
25
Subject: HRM or feel?
With my new job schedule, I'm forced to do my running in the heat of the day. Since I'd like to my first real build phase this years after a couple years of dabbling, I want to try to really get things right.
Here's the thing. In the heat, my HR loves to creep up pretty quickly and by mile 2 or 3 I find myself going over my AT(if you folks even agree with the terms) and have to slow down to 9:00-9:45 miles for the rest of the run. I still feel like I can hold an 8:00-8:30 pace without my breathing feeling labored and without a hint of burn in my legs.
So what's the best bet? Keep my breathing and legs comfortable or run by the numbers?


2008-10-13 6:29 PM
in reply to: #1739834

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

Couple things...  If you are over your AT (which some interchange with LT... and some don't) without it hurting pretty bad, then your AT/LT is wrong IMO.  How did you determine it?

I tend to keep an eye on the HRM (I wear it all the time), but not a slave to it.  If I creep to Z3 during a Z2 run, I don't worry about it too much.  But I will back down if I hit Z4.  But I don't need a HRM to tell me to back off if I get going that hard.

AND, a Z5 run (over my LT) hurts no matter what the temp is.  That's a big effort.  Unless I'm doing sprints or high intensity intervals, I see no point to even be there.

2008-10-13 6:32 PM
in reply to: #1739834

Member
45
25
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
I used the Maffetone 180-age deal and got 159, then used the 30 min LT test and used the calculator on this site and got a 157, so I have my alarm set at 158.
2008-10-13 6:37 PM
in reply to: #1739834

User image

Extreme Veteran
518
500
Sault Ste. Marie
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

wtf alarm for what?? max hr nooo..im hopin min hr??

 



Edited by Jyles16 2008-10-13 6:39 PM
2008-10-13 6:38 PM
in reply to: #1739864

User image

Cycling Guru
15134
50005000500010025
Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
Go by feel, just use the HRM as another parameter to record and track.
2008-10-13 6:39 PM
in reply to: #1739879

User image

Cycling Guru
15134
50005000500010025
Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
Jyles16 - 2008-10-13 7:37 PM

wtf alarm for what?? max hr?? ...why?

 

You can set most HRM to go off at certain levels.



2008-10-13 6:43 PM
in reply to: #1739864

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

KSC - 2008-10-13 4:32 PM I used the Maffetone 180-age deal and got 159, then used the 30 min LT test and used the calculator on this site and got a 157, so I have my alarm set at 158.

OK, good start.

I used to follow the Maffeton theory for a long while, but gave it up for the LT method.  Maffetone gave me MUCH too low heart rates IMO.  Something similar to what you seem to be experiencing.

However, I would still question your field test.  Was it an ALL OUT effort?  Was it a run field test?  Was it puke worthy?  I only question because if your LT is 158, going over that should feel VERY hard.  Most can't do if for more than a 5k.  Elite runners can do it for maybe an hour (according to the definition).

If you think the test results are valid, fair enough.  I would go by feel, but wear your HRM.  If you find that you average a higher HR than your LT test, then use the new average as your LT.

I know everyone is different, but my Maffatone number (the "number" where you start going anaerobic from aerobic) is 145.  That is NOT your LT (the point where your body can no longer metabolize the lactic acid your muscles generate while working out.)  That number should be higher in most cases.  My LT for running is 180.  I can keep a running HR in a 10k in the high 170's with an excess of 180 during the sprint finish.

 



Edited by Aikidoman 2008-10-13 6:45 PM
2008-10-13 6:46 PM
in reply to: #1739884

Member
45
25
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
Daremo - 2008-10-13 6:38 PM

Go by feel, just use the HRM as another parameter to record and track.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping for. As for base building volume... Do you believe in volume trumping long runs/rides? For instance, running 30 miles with 5 runs a week, or 25 miles in 3 runs.
2008-10-13 6:49 PM
in reply to: #1739834

Member
45
25
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
Aikidoman-
Noooo, my LT was like a 174. The other numbers were my aerobic numbers.
2008-10-13 6:53 PM
in reply to: #1739922

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

KSC - 2008-10-13 4:49 PM Aikidoman- Noooo, my LT was like a 174. The other numbers were my aerobic numbers.

OK, then if you are using the Maffetone number as your AT (aerobic to Anearobic), then yes, you should be able to go over that comfortably.  That is like Z2 using the LT method.

Then it depends on what you are trying to achieve.  I do almost 90% of my training in Z1/Z2  That's 123 to 163.  But I'm working on an IM, where base trianing is important (it's important for all lengths, actually).

If you are interested in HR training, these are good resourses..

http://www.d3multisport.com/articles.php

they are all worthy reads.

Good luck!

 

ETA:  I plugged in 174 into the calc.  I see the 158 and agree with it.  I think that going up to 166 (high Z3) is ok occasionally too.  If you can do 166, does that feel hard enough?



Edited by Aikidoman 2008-10-13 6:58 PM
2008-10-14 7:39 AM
in reply to: #1739916

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

KSC - 2008-10-13 7:46 PM
Daremo - 2008-10-13 6:38 PM Go by feel, just use the HRM as another parameter to record and track.
Thanks, that's what I was hoping for. As for base building volume... Do you believe in volume trumping long runs/rides? For instance, running 30 miles with 5 runs a week, or 25 miles in 3 runs.

Mileage, frequency and consistency.  I'd take the 30 in 5 over the 25 in 3 any day.



2008-10-14 7:56 AM
in reply to: #1740787

User image

Cycling Guru
15134
50005000500010025
Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

Scout7 - 2008-10-14 8:39 AM Mileage, frequency and consistency.  I'd take the 30 in 5 over the 25 in 3 any day.

Yup, what he said ......

2008-10-14 8:28 AM
in reply to: #1739834

User image

New user
19

Subject: RE: HRM or feel?
I've never used a HRM and have never had a problem. I go by feel and IMO, I get good results in both training and racing.
2008-10-14 9:31 AM
in reply to: #1739834

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: HRM or feel?

To the OP, living in FL and running in extreme heat and humidity can easily push my HR above my Z2 base training range.  I wear my HRM all of the time but when it's really hot I'll set the low alarm at the bottom of Z2 and the high at the top of Z3 and then just go by feel. 

I have days in the summer when the heat gets to be stifling and I just shut it down and walk.  I also have some routes that keep me mostly in the shade for really hot days.  

Mark

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HRM or feel? Rss Feed