Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base? | Rss Feed |
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2008-10-14 10:10 PM |
Member 20 | Subject: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Which of the 3 sports is best for building endurance? Is one better than the other or is it just dependent on time spent at base building zones? Thanks! |
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2008-10-14 10:37 PM in reply to: #1743225 |
Master 1795![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Wow, you will get a few interesting replies here, but general rule of thumb is that each sport requires building endurance specificly upon itself. For example, a great endurance base in running does not equate to swimming endless laps in the pool or riding bike over excessive distances. Fortunately I was poor in all three disciplines when starting out and had no choice but to bust my hump across the board Good luck! |
2008-10-15 12:22 AM in reply to: #1743260 |
Houston | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?I would say running fitness and biking fitness are more closely related. Swimming is definitely in its own category. |
2008-10-15 12:34 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
New user 143![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?For me personally, the better I got at running, the better I trained in the other two events. However, extra running still does not make up for taking time off from swimming for me. |
2008-10-15 1:03 AM in reply to: #1743260 |
Master 1741![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Chapel Hill, NC | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?cardenas1 - 2008-10-14 11:37 PM Wow, you will get a few interesting replies here, but general rule of thumb is that each sport requires building endurance specificly upon itself. X2. When I first started, I used the couch to 5k plan and worked up to being able to run for a whopping 40 minutes no problem. So, one day I went out and rode my bike 4 miles to the pool, swam for 20 minutes, rode 4 miles home. On the way back, I had to stop and get off my bike to walk it up a tiny little hill because I had just run out of steam. I think of that and laugh every time I ride on that hill now. I think this is called specificity in training. Edited by keyone 2008-10-15 1:04 AM |
2008-10-15 2:45 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Master 2665![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The Whites, New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?I suppose it all depends on your definition of "endurance base." Since this is a tri forum and you mentioned the three tri sports, responders are assuming you mean tri-specific endurance. In that case, see above. However, if you want to know which one sport will allow you to play soccer with your kids for longer, play a game of pickup basketball with your friends without dying, hike 10 miles, hit the rock wall, bomb a mountain bike trail, and so on, I would guess running is your best bet. Simply because, if you are looking at endurance for all the random athletic stuff in life, most of it involves being on your feet, moving in a walking or running fashion. If the majority of your pickup stuff happens on a bike, then cycling will help more than running, though running certainly won't hurt too much. Most people can't achieve the same level of endurance with the same level of commitment in the pool as they can running or cycling, so swimming is generally out on that front. One of my big goals in maintaining and increasing my fitness is to be able to participate in random athletic stuff, which is why I brought this up. If you are just looking for tri-specific info, ignore me. |
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2008-10-15 5:40 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Sneaky Slow 8694![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Regardless of whether or not there is a real answer to this question, and maybe there is, and maybe there isn't, I don't recommend that you approach your training in this manner. |
2008-10-15 6:46 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Extreme Veteran 477![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?For me, running seems to increase my overall fitness and endurance the most/quickest. However, in order to bike long, you have to bike...in order to swim long, you have to swim. I think any sport or activity is pretty specific. I can be in great running shape and go play basketball or tennis or whatever and be in good shape fitness-wise but still be sore muscle-wise. |
2008-10-15 6:58 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Champion 9600![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. |
2008-10-15 7:05 AM in reply to: #1743456 |
Champion 19812![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() MA | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. What he said...biking is much kinder to your body for long workouts. |
2008-10-15 7:39 AM in reply to: #1743456 |
Member 53![]() ![]() Melbourne, FL | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. Agreed... I'm also searching through the slowtwitch forums to find a great response about this same question. No luck yet. But isn't it also true that by having a strong bike base, it will allow you to stay at FoP pace while also conserving energy and have better times during your run (think bricks or race enviroment, not stand alone runs). I've always been under the impression that strong bikers come off the bike and into the run in much better shape than a strong runner would (again, think race environment). |
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2008-10-15 7:46 AM in reply to: #1743456 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. Tell that to all the people doing ultramarathons. |
2008-10-15 7:55 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Expert 938![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?It may be a pejorative view, but I'd say whichever of the three is your weakest would probably be the best to build your base in. For me it's running. I'm a front of MOP swimmer, back of MOP biker, and straggler BOP runner. For example, my placings in swimming and running in my last sprint had a 97 place difference. I can knock out 2000 meters at race pace and feel pretty good about it, but breaking 9:00 miles kicks my a$$. |
2008-10-15 7:59 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?I'm going to go with cross country skiing. |
2008-10-15 8:07 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Coach 10487![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?ALL 3 sports are important because specific training adaptations occur on each and specific fitness doesn't really translate from one to the other. 'Building a base' is one of those terms a lot of athletes/coaches use but not everyone understands what is it or depending who you ask you'll get a different definition. Base training is nothing more than laying down your general fitness foundation to handle the specific training load in the future. General fitness refers to the intensity and volume (training load) which is not particular to your main event. Specific fitness refers to the intensity and volume directly related to your main event aka as race pace. i.e. someone training for an IM could work on tempo/threshold training (intensity) for shorter periods (volume) and focus a bit more on specific weaknesses early on the season and as the season progresses then the focus will switch from general to specific training in which tempo/threshold sessions will be reduced and longer steady pace sessions (race pace) will become more important. Aerobic base is another one of those terms that I feel confuses people. 1 hr going all out (threshold pace) or 5 hrs riding at easy/steady pace are both aerobic efforts because our body relies on the aerobic energy system to fuel the effort. Hence IMO intensity or duration doesn’t dictate base training, as I said above your specific goal and needs will. OP – what do you need to focus on? It depends on what kind of event you are training for, how long have you been training and what are your strengths/weaknesses. FYI - while all 3 events are important, this phase or part of the program is perfect opportunity to address your weaknesses while you maintain your fitness on your strenghts. IOW, you don't need to focus on all 3 sports at the same degree i.e. a strong cyclist should focus on the other two sports more to improve during the general or ‘base’ phase while doing some cycling to maintain fitness. |
2008-10-15 8:50 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Member 381![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?If I were going to pick one (and I did for this winter) it is running. Many people argue about specificity and whether your training in one sport applies to all three. Those arguments are logical and would lead to an optimal year-round training plan. However, the question put forward was pick one. And that can be motivated by a variety of reasons (for example, you don't want to do all three sports over the winter.) I choose running because it is convenient (just throw on shoes night or day), I usually get a much better overall aerobic workout in a given amount of time, it is the area I stand to gain the most improvement for a specific amount of training, and my body can handle quick ramp-up in swimming and biking volume come spring, but not running. Swimming is undoubtedly my worst event, but as much as I train all year I only see marginal improvements. The silver lining is that I don't lost much swim performance by taking time off and gain most of it back in a month or so. I'm sure this is not true for strong swimmers. |
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2008-10-15 9:23 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Carrollton, TX | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Honestly I don't think there is a right answer here. I was in great shape in high school as a competitive swimmer, and I had endless energy. All the swimming translated into great aerobic fitness which allowed me to run competitively in a 5k with almost no running at all at under 7 minute miles. However, there comes a point where muscle fitness overcomes aerobic fitness and your muscles just can't take it. I tried to run a 10k at the same pace and bonked at about mile 5, still finishing at about 7:45 miles, but it was hard and my legs were a bit sore after that. 11+ years later and I wish i had that aerobic fitness back, but I am working toward it. I would say this "muscle vs aerobic" phenomenon will apply to all 3 sports, with running/cycling being more closely related, but if you exceed your muscle fitness in the sport, it won't matter what your aerobic fitness is. In my opinion, I think running is the best one to focus on during the winter, and my reasoning is that it is dangerous to ramp up your running when you haven't been doing it for a long time, which is unlike swimming and cycling, which are much less injury prone. So by building a great aerobic base in running, this will translate more smoothly once you begin to hit the other sports hard come spring (or whatever), and you can ramp those up a lot faster with less risk for injury. I would still definitely recommend, however, cross training in the pool 2-3 times a week (or something not involving your legs), which helps tremendously for recovery and still works your aerobic base while your legs take a break. This is just my opinion. |
2008-10-15 9:26 AM in reply to: #1743529 |
Cycling Guru 15134![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Scout7 - 2008-10-15 8:46 AM bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. Tell that to all the people doing ultramarathons. I believe Bryan is talking day in, day out. Even ultra runners do not train 3 - 5 hours a day continuous. You can do that on the bike once you've built up to it. (Assuming you have no other obligations like a job or a family). I happen to agree with him ....... |
2008-10-15 9:35 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Member 166![]() ![]() ![]() Encinitas | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Good thread. I heard a coach say last week that the better runner you become , it will help your cycling and not vice versa, but in regards to the swim , as everyone said: "you got to get your feet wet". |
2008-10-15 9:36 AM in reply to: #1743793 |
Member 381![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Daremo - 2008-10-15 8:26 AM Scout7 - 2008-10-15 8:46 AM bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. Tell that to all the people doing ultramarathons. I believe Bryan is talking day in, day out. Even ultra runners do not train 3 - 5 hours a day continuous. You can do that on the bike once you've built up to it. (Assuming you have no other obligations like a job or a family). I happen to agree with him ....... fairly large assumption... |
2008-10-15 9:42 AM in reply to: #1743472 |
Champion 7036![]() ![]() ![]() Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?KathyG - 2008-10-15 8:05 AM bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. What he said...biking is much kinder to your body for long workouts. x2 I'm at an age (55), where wear & tear and recovery times are becoming ever bigger factors in my training. I can do long rides on consecutive days, but my knees need a day off if I run for three miles or more. Since my primary training objective is general health & fitness, versus race performance, I'm not overly concerned with intensity or specificity of training unless I'm approaching a race. Mark |
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2008-10-15 9:47 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Extreme Veteran 518![]() Sault Ste. Marie | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?I got into triathlons in July 2008.... when i started getting into shape i would rollerblade to school every day at top speed....i would notice differences to my lactic threshold...then i got into biking till i was dead...that got me into great shape!! ohh yeah and cross country skiing is awesome for VO2 max inceasements, and base building!! But since i knew i had to swim and run in my first triathlon, i started working on those 2 months before my first race!! I did very well. But before all of that i would do strength training on my entire body....by luck.... because i was pretty weak, and this prevented me from injury over the next months of aerobic training. So i say do whatever you want, and try not to injure yourself, but biking, skiing, and rollerblading are all awesome!! you can go forever and not deal with friiiiikin cramps!! (running and cramps go together when you push hard!) |
2008-10-15 9:59 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Pro 4675![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Wouldn't you first need to specify what physiological parameter you are going to use to measure "endurance" ? Once you do that, it isn't enough to just say, well, I can bike for 5 hours but I can't run for 5 hours, so biking is better for building "endurance". It might be better for building "bike endurance" but is it better than running for building that elusive general definition of "endurance"...which I think the OP was asking. If you can get the equivalent amount of training dose (Jorge probably has a better term) to address "general endurance" in one hour of running versus 5 hours of biking, which one is "better"?? I'm just thinking out loud (on a keyboard), not necessarily disagreeing with anything that's been said so far. |
2008-10-15 10:10 AM in reply to: #1743793 |
Champion 9600![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?Daremo - 2008-10-15 9:26 AM Scout7 - 2008-10-15 8:46 AM bryancd - 2008-10-15 7:58 AM If you are considering only aerobic base, the bike provides the only sport where you can spend prolomged duration at your aerobic level. You can't run or swim aerobicaly for 5 hours but you can bike. Tell that to all the people doing ultramarathons. I believe Bryan is talking day in, day out. Even ultra runners do not train 3 - 5 hours a day continuous. You can do that on the bike once you've built up to it. (Assuming you have no other obligations like a job or a family). I happen to agree with him ....... Yes, I assume the OP is looking to train and race as a triathlete and when he references "base" he simply means the good old aerobic, fat burning, Zone2, whatever, whatever, kind of training. I also agree that running a lot or swimming a lot can benefit the other sports as well. It's all cummulative to overall fitness, for sure, so as Jorge and others have said, there isn't really a "right" answer. For my training, I do catagorize "effort" by specific paces or HR zones. When I think of "Base" it's a training intensity which I can maintain for a certain amount of time. The bike provides me the greatest amount of time in that intensity to build my aerobic capacity, but that's not to say a run of half that time doesn't also provide a similar physiological stimulus. Edited by bryancd 2008-10-15 10:16 AM |
2008-10-15 10:15 AM in reply to: #1743225 |
Elite 3650![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: Which of the 3 sports is best for building your endurance base?I think we are missing a HUGE issue here. 'Aerobic Base' is not some aqueous thing that resides in our bodies. Aerobic base is not determined by oxygen intake (Ie the lungs and heart) but rather by oxygen utilization. When you sprint as hard as you can, you are getting enough oxygen in your blood stream (otherwise your brain would be complaining as well...aka passing out), your muscles just can't absorb it fast enough. When the energy demand on a muscle exceeds what it can produce aerobically, the anaerobic pathway is fired up, leading to increased lactate production, and on and on and on. That's actually a pretty dumbed down explanation, but it works for this. When you build running base, you are training a specific set of muscles for a specific demand. Those are the muscles that will increase capillary and mitochondrial density, and thus be trained to work aerobically at higher output. Those are the muscles that are building 'aerobic base'. When you switch to cycling, some of those muscles will be used, but there will be plenty of others who are severely undertrained in comparison. These muscles will go anerobic before the others, and when they do, they will serve as limiters on your performance. The crossover may make picking up the other sport easier, but there is no way you will come off a season of dedicated run training and instantly be a monster on the bike. This is also the reason that you have a different lactate threshold (however you want to define it) for running, cycling and swimming.IMHO the only time generic 'aerobic exercise' means anything is in reference to losing weight. Then just about anything will help, but putting in 20k a week in the pool is not going to help you run a marathon. Edited by vortmax 2008-10-15 10:16 AM |
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2008-10-14 10:10 PM




Boynton Beach, FL

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