Swimming in baggy shorts

I dropped 10 seconds per 100 when I switched to drag shorts from the baggy shorts.  It's a lot of drag. 

X2 7-10 depending on the day

I've been swimming in the baggies this summer vs. jammers/tri shorts, mostly because I don't want the cr@p from my wife about strutting around the outdoor pool w/ jammers on. You can definitely feel a difference, but I look at it this way - my daughter's swim coach has the 'national/elite' kids wear 'drag suits' in practice every day. Those kids kick a$$ in the pool when they strap on their speedos on race day. It's kind of like putting on race wheels for race day - same speed, less effort or more speed, same effort. Steve

I've been swimming in the baggies this summer vs. jammers/tri shorts, mostly because I don't want the cr@p from my wife about strutting around the outdoor pool w/ jammers on. You can definitely feel a difference, but I look at it this way - my daughter's swim coach has the 'national/elite' kids wear 'drag suits' in practice every day. Those kids kick a$$ in the pool when they strap on their speedos on race day. It's kind of like putting on race wheels for race day - same speed, less effort or more speed, same effort. Steve

If I push off the wall, I can feel my baggy shorts act like a parachute as they fall down a few inches.  I learned not to push off very hard but at the same, it showed me how much drag they have.

I have a question about the OP, is 2:00-2:10/100 meters slow or average speed for swimming?  That's about where I'm at, and just trying to get a feel for where I'll be in my upcoming tri.  Thanks!

I wear a drag suit and it honestly doesn't produce much drag..

Way back when I did participate on a swim team, we trained in baggy shorts most of the time. 

baggy shorts change your feel for the water. They change it enough that I would consider training in board shorts to qualify as "not training like you would race".

Drag shorts are different, as they aren't as baggy and don't alter your swimming dynamics that much, but in reality, why do you want to add drag? If you want more resistance, just swim faster. Plus, swimming faster (again) changes the feel of the water and how you swim, so training at a higher effort and lower speed compared to the same effort at a higher speed just doesn't make sense.

and quit letting your wife tell you what to wear

I'm much slower than OP (~2:30-40/100 in mile swim), but for me baggies are slower by about 10sec/100.
BTW-I've heard of many swim coaches encouraging baggie suits during practice- almost like a low-key version of sprinters dragging a chute behind.  As a local coach keeps telling me- when you're training what difference does absolute speed make?  It's all about the workout (technique, conditioning, etc). 

I like training in long baggy board shorts. I am much slower with them. I look at it like riding the bike in the wind - it makes you stronger and you get used to it. Then a week before a race I go slick - speedo or jammers or wetsuit and cap and it feels so liberating. I can hold a 1:24 pace for 15x100 on 10 secs in a speedo. I can hold about a 1:40 pace for 15x100 on 10 sec with board shorts on.

I used to wear baggies for the "drag" effect.  I too thought they would help me become stronger and then when I put on the jammers, I would glide through the water faster and smoother.  This did happen, but I have found it better to wear the jammers during training. 

When you are working on form, it is better to not have the baggy flapping around as you swim.  I really work hard on "feeling" the water as I swim, watching bubbles, hip position, hand position in relation to thigh as my arm passes through recovery, etc.  I wear a wetsuit during a tri, so it's not like I would train in the baggy for the drag effect, then race in a Speedo.  I'll leave that up to Dave Scott...

BTW, when I swam in high school, we always wore our Speedos.  But that was a long time ago.  Things may have changed.  I know the freestyle stroke has changed since I was on our swim team!


Edited by Gregkl 2009-09-04 4:09 PM

and also, at 2:00+ per 100, there are form (most likely body position) issues to work on before even thinking about resistance training.

Dropped 20-30 seconds for every 50 yards.  It was one of the most dramatic differences I have had with gear.  I had no idea it mattered so much.  With a good pair of jammers my hips felt like the were being pulled up and I felt like I was gliding thru the water twice as far with each stroke.  

Edited by jjcnbg 2009-09-04 4:20 PM

I choose not to get jammers etc and wear my shorts because technique is my focus. I dont want a false sense of correct form by wearing dragless clothing. Especially if it adds buoyancy and causes you to ignore flaws that do exist in your form. IE dropping hips and head position.

Why not just swim every session in your wetsuit too since that's how you race. 

I agree on the change I used to not be able to swim in anything but a speedo, Just hanging out or when I Was working at a swim club I always had a speedo on under my suit in case we started to randomly do laps or play a game in teh water. You'd see half hte kids who were on the swim team suddenly drop their normal shorts and have a speedo on.. My brother usually just had a speedo on and nothing else..

Now I only practice in a normal knee length bathing suit for the drag. First race is in a few weeks and I'll do a day or two in tri shorts. Back in HS and even before then I always practiced in two speedos one good one and one that was worn out and too big with holes in it. You could feel a difference just taking that cut up speedo off.

I've got enough time int he water over my life I can make it work no problem. Even with shorts on I am looking to be pretty FOP for the swim portion of my first race.. same cannot be said for hte bike or run...

wow. why is everybody so anti-speedo.....

2 points:

1. Baggy shorts alter your form. They affect how you swim through the water and affect your feel for it. If you spend all of your time swimming in baggy shorts, you learn how to swim in baggy shorts. Once you put on the speedo, suddenly your feel for the water changes as do your stroke mechanics. The extra drag of the baggy shorts also make things like hip rotation and body position harder to learn and feel, actually slowing down the learning process. If you are trying to work on form, then a speedo type suit would be a much better option. and no I don't train in a wet suit..in fact I hate the things. Baggy shorts to speedos is like training on a mt bike and racing on a tri bike. Adding a wet suit is like adding a disc. and there is a big difference between board shorts and a drag suit and someone learning to swim in board shorts and someone with years of competitive swimming training in them.

2. Why do you need to add resistance with a drag suit anyway? Drag force is proportional to the square of the speed. This means a little increase in speed will result in higher drag, or resistance. So assuming your form doesn't change, just pulling a little harder will up the resistance for you...no drag suit needed. If you are having trouble with this, then the answer probably lies in improving your catch, not in adding additional drag. Another key point here is that drag increases with the square of speed... which means that the faster you are swimming, the higher the drag force. This means that the faster you go, the more important your stroke becomes. A little hitch to your stroke at 2:00 per hundred will cost you a lot less then that same hitch at 1:15 per hundred. So the faster you swim, the more those little tiny nuances of your stroke start to matter. If you spend all of your time swimming at a high effort at 2:00 per hundred, then ditch the suit and try to race at 1:15 per hundred, suddenly there are parts of your stroke slowing you down. Those are parts of your stroke that don't feel out of place at the slow speeds, but suddenly are huge parachutes in the water. If you want to swim fast, you have to practice swimming fast.

I can possibly see wearing a drag suit if you are an elite swimmer and your stroke is already pretty much maxed out. Then it makes sense, but even that's an actual drag suit (not board shorts) and it would be for specific workouts and not all of the time.

Edited by VO2Matt 2009-09-04 5:52 PM

It's just my theory, but I believe that saying swimming faster with jammers has the same training effect as using a drag suit is like saying that spinning out at a high cadence at 20+mph on the bike provides the same workout as pushing a big gear at a lower cadence at 20+mph.  One provides more of an aerobic workout, the other more strength.  Both types of workouts have their place, and neither provides everything.

I believe that using a drag suit or trunks will help develop a sprinters' power (useful to get out of the washing machine during race starts and sprint-distance races), and increasing your turnover while wearing jammers will contribute more to your aerobic base (useful for longer races)

Sort of but not really.

Your cadence shouldn't really change. If you apply the same force on the water with your pull, which is independant of speed and suit type), all else equal, you will simply go faster in a speedo. You are putting down the same power, but just going faster. The only thing changing is your total drag.

Now let's add a small imperfection to your stroke. You are still producing the same force with your pull, but at the higher speed, that imperfection generates much more drag. At the slower speed, you may not even feel it. If you only swim slow, you never have a chance to "learn how to swim fast". Its not a matter of strength, but rather technique.

I think it's a mental thing. All of the sudden, the same effort produces a faster result. It's a good thing going into race week.

How do you go faster with the same turnover speed and stroke length?  If you pull harder, you will go faster, but it's probably because your stroke is faster.  That said, most people have a tendency to shorten up their stroke when drag is added (or they're swimming hard), so reducing drag could do the opposite and make you faster, because your stroke would get longer.  Is that what you're getting at?

I do agree with you that if you only swim slow, you will never have the chance to swim fast, but I think that swimming fast all the time with minimal drag will limit your capacity to get stronger.

My understanding is the only ways to go faster are to either improve your efficiency so that you can turn over faster and longer strokes for a longer period of time with the same energy expenditure, or get stronger.  The fastest people I've ever raced with had very efficient strokes and they were strong.  It takes both to go fast over the long haul.

Of course, learning good technique should come before you try to add strength for speeds sake.

Cadence would increase to go faster if your hydrodynamics didn't change.

What I am saying is, assume you a putting out constant power...you are applying constant force driving you forward. In this situation, your speed is controlled by a countering force....which is drag.

In this situation, you are doing the same amount of work in the speedo and drag suit. The drag suit just makes you swim slower. So you can achieve the same workout (resistance wise) in a speedo while refining your stroke to maximise efficiency at that speed.

I put drag suits in the same class as paddles. Yes doing some swimming with them helps improve raw power, but you shouldn't be doing all your swimming with them.