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2009-09-08 5:33 PM

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Subject: Squats
Based on some information I found on this forum, I purchased a book titled Starting Strength.

This book is fantastic.  Despite several college level classes on fitness and weight training, it wasn't until now that I learned the proper way to do a squat.  Unsurprisingly, this also resulted in a somewhat dramatic drop in the amount of weight I can squat now.  Oh well - I'm fine with that, I'm running stronger and faster now.

One of my friends that played college football suggested that I squat with the bar on my chest as opposed to resting on my back.  I'm curious whether anyone here either advocates this approach to the squat and what, if any, benefit this would have over the traditional squat.

Thanks in advance.

John.


2009-09-08 7:24 PM
in reply to: #2395500

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Master
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Subject: RE: Squats
For some people, front squats as they are called help maintain a better line and balance through the movement.  It also supposedly takes some pressure off your back.  I don't know if it would be "better" or not.
2009-09-08 10:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Squats
Front squats should not replace back (traditional) squats, but should supplement them. If I'm not mistaken, Starting Strength probably discusses front squats in the assistance exercises section if not the squat section itself. You may check if the stronglifts website (Google "stronglifts") discusses proper form for the front squat.
2009-09-09 4:31 AM
in reply to: #2395500

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Subject: RE: Squats
There is no question that the front squat is a good exercise but it can also be uncomfortable during the intial learning period. And if you're very tall, have proportionately long legs, or both (usually it's both since most tall guys get their height from long legs, but once in a while you'll see a short guy with a short torso and long legs), the front squat may be an easier movement for correct squatting. Tall guys tend to round their backs when they go into a deep back squat which is bad news for your discs. However, if you don't have these issues, and your goals are to train for general strength and/or improve triathlon performance, I really don't think you'll miss out on not doing front squats. If you do squats as laid out in Starting Strength, i.e., going to where your thighs are AT LEAST parallel to the ground, you'll be better off than 90% of gym goers. Supplement that with single leg movements such as lunges, walking lunges, or Bulgarian split squats, and you'll have a great pair of legs for triathlon or any other activity.
2009-09-09 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats
Thanks for the advice and the information.

I'll have to incorporate walking lunges into my lower body routine.
2009-09-12 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats
Gregkl - 2009-09-08 7:24 PM For some people, front squats as they are called help maintain a better line and balance through the movement.  It also supposedly takes some pressure off your back.  I don't know if it would be "better" or not.


I've found just the opposite in my training.  Front squats tend to put a tremendous amount of stress on my lower back as compared to tradtional back squats. They do tend to hit my quads more.


2009-09-12 12:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Squats
semi off topic, never use one of the squat machines, I will forever pay for stupid stunts done on that machine.
2009-09-13 10:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats
mkarr0110 - 2009-09-12 1:11 PM semi off topic, never use one of the squat machines, I will forever pay for stupid stunts done on that machine.


But don't aviod the Smith machine (if you can call it a "machine"). Squats with the Smith (while positioning your feet a little foward & maintaining a straight back) is a great way to hit the hammies and glutes. Forgot the specific term, but awesome for tri speed.   
2009-09-14 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats

Front squats are supposed to put more of the focus on the quads and takes away from the glutes and hammies.  I like to do them at least once a month instead of traditional squats just to keep the muscles guessing.  I would recommend doing these on a Smith Machine to start out. 

2009-09-14 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats
Personally, I would not recommend using a Smith Machine for squats. It restricts your range of motion in an artificial way and it removes the "core" aspect of the exercise (stabilizer muscles). I believe that extensive squatting on a Smith Machine could lead to injury, but read up on it for yourself before you do it.

Just wanted to get the opposing viewpoint out there. Not trying to debate.
2009-09-14 11:44 AM
in reply to: #2405068

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Subject: RE: Squats
ScoopJackson - 2009-09-14 9:07 AM Personally, I would not recommend using a Smith Machine for squats. It restricts your range of motion in an artificial way and it removes the "core" aspect of the exercise (stabilizer muscles). I believe that extensive squatting on a Smith Machine could lead to injury, but read up on it for yourself before you do it.

Just wanted to get the opposing viewpoint out there. Not trying to debate.


x2 on the removal of core and stabilizers.

One of the main reasons to perform resistance training is to strengthen the core, help protect against injury, and help fight some things that happen if you are overtrained on endurance training.

We already combine a high-level of repetition in a narrow range of motion in our tri training.

A fundamental question:
Do you do Tri's for fitness, or do you get fit for Tri performance? Simple question, with not so simple implications.




2009-09-14 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Squats
I agree that with your point.  But front squats can be a little cumbersome at first, so I was just recommending the Smith Machine for safety purposes until they get the hang of it. 
2009-09-14 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Squats
diggerjr80 - 2009-09-14 12:48 PM I agree that with your point.  But front squats can be a little cumbersome at first, so I was just recommending the Smith Machine for safety purposes until they get the hang of it. 


I've never tried them on the smith machine, but I do know that front squats are much more difficult with the same weight as back squats so back off your weight tremendously until you figure out where to say.  Say you squat 305# on back squat as I do then back up to about 135# and see where you fall.  I front squat 185# and it's very taxing on my quads and lower back.  Knowing this a smith machine would be very beneficial starting out but remember when you hit the freebar that the stabilizers will be taxed very hard.  Front squats are a very easy way to hurt your lower back and have a lifelong injury if not careful.  Respect the front squat as you would a deadlift. 
2009-09-14 12:55 PM
in reply to: #2395500

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Subject: RE: Squats
Technique is a whole different ball game.

Squats are one of those exercises that look intuitive, but can be very difficult to do safely and correctly.

I personally tried to master no-weight squats, back squats, and overhead squats before I considered front squats.
(lightweight first!)

With how little I find myself in the weight room these days, I just don't get a front squat rotation very often.


2009-09-14 2:13 PM
in reply to: #2405152

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Subject: RE: Squats
eabeam - 2009-09-14 11:44 AM

ScoopJackson - 2009-09-14 9:07 AM Personally, I would not recommend using a Smith Machine for squats. It restricts your range of motion in an artificial way and it removes the "core" aspect of the exercise (stabilizer muscles). I believe that extensive squatting on a Smith Machine could lead to injury, but read up on it for yourself before you do it.

Just wanted to get the opposing viewpoint out there. Not trying to debate.


x2 on the removal of core and stabilizers.

One of the main reasons to perform resistance training is to strengthen the core, help protect against injury, and help fight some things that happen if you are overtrained on endurance training.

We already combine a high-level of repetition in a narrow range of motion in our tri training.

A fundamental question:
Do you do Tri's for fitness, or do you get fit for Tri performance? Simple question, with not so simple implications.




X3 on avoiding the Smith machine. Yes, front squats can be cumbersome. The solution is to learn the movement with light weight. Use an empty bar at first if you must.
2009-09-15 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Squats
Most people's limiter in a front squat is actual in their forearms.

Doing them with crossed front arms is dangerous as the weight can roll fairly easily.

Doing them correctly (the position is similar to the catch of a correct clean) should remove stresses from the lower back and hit the hams in a different way than a back squat. The bar should not be able to roll, as it is "locked" in place by your fingers and collarbone creating an unmovable bridge.

Use the Smith machine for safety when learning, then leave it alone unless you are experienced and KNOW exactly what you are going for out of it. (although, the same should be said for all exercises)



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