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Drafting on the Bike = WOW
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 2009-09-14 11:44 AM |
Sensei  Sin City |  Subject: Drafting on the Bike = WOWI know this is going to sound elementary to a lot of people here, but I went on my first ever group ride over the weekend and took the oportunity to suck a wheel. WOW!!! I knew you can save some energy, but it was like night and day. I would get behind someone and barely had to pedal at times. I would also even need to sit up and catch a little air just to keep from coasting into their back wheel. I can't believe how much energy you can save. It was like going from a race effort to a Sunday cruise effort depending if I was on the front or not. However, lose that wheel? You have to seriously fight to get back on at times... |
| 2009-09-14 11:49 AM in reply to: #2405154 |
Elite  3683     Whispering Pines, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW yeah..i went on my first group ride a few weeks ago and same thing... i was stuck on the back wheel for 10 miles, then I was pulling for 10... the latter part of that ride was MUCH harder.  |
| 2009-09-14 11:50 AM in reply to: #2405154 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW there was a guy in my race on sunday doing that, no wonder he looked so damn fresh on the run. |
| 2009-09-14 11:52 AM in reply to: #2405154 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Now you know the allure of doing it in a tri .......... especially when it is late in the ride and people are starting to tire. I absolutely went ballistic on a group of about 8 guys yesterday in my race. I had passed them and said break it up. Then about a 1/2 mile later they all came by again telling me to move. I ripped them all a new one with some very choice language and then absolutely destroyed them. Yeah, may not have been the best thing for the later run portion of the race but at that point I didn't care as I am vehemently against drafting in races where it is not legal. |
| 2009-09-14 11:58 AM in reply to: #2405171 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Daremo - 2009-09-14 9:52 AM Now you know the allure of doing it in a tri .......... especially when it is late in the ride and people are starting to tire. I absolutely went ballistic on a group of about 8 guys yesterday in my race. I had passed them and said break it up. Then about a 1/2 mile later they all came by again telling me to move. I ripped them all a new one with some very choice language and then absolutely destroyed them. Yeah, may not have been the best thing for the later run portion of the race but at that point I didn't care as I am vehemently against drafting in races where it is not legal. I agree 100%. I love tri because it's mono a mono and you have to bank on your own ability... I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. Once I saw a women getting pulled by a guy for a whole bike leg of a triathlon. It didn't affect me, but I thought it was unfair to the other women competitors to have another girl probably turn in one of the fastest bike splits AND be fresher off the bike. |
| 2009-09-14 12:00 PM in reply to: #2405164 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW meherczeg - 2009-09-14 9:50 AM there was a guy in my race on sunday doing that, no wonder he looked so damn fresh on the run. For real. If I could suck a wheel for an entire race? I would be fresh as a daisy off the bike... |
| 2009-09-14 12:06 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Once I got a Power meter... I was also shocked at how much less effort that I could see in my actual watts... |
| 2009-09-14 12:08 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW in training for my HIM i have been riding myself in a much more intesive course if you will, but used to ride in a fast group 26-30 mph. Edited by trix 2009-09-14 12:10 PM |
| 2009-09-14 12:17 PM in reply to: #2405208 |
| Pro 4054 yep, | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW trix - 2009-09-14 1:08 PM in training for my HIM i have been riding myself in a much more intesive course if you will, but used to ride in a fast group 26-30 mph.
thats a pretty interesting percentage bump. 27-30mph! Holy cow.. you guys are moving. |
| 2009-09-14 12:36 PM in reply to: #2405234 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Paul Sherman and Phil Ligget talk about a 30% energy saving if you are on someone's wheel AND if you are in the middle of the peleton, you sort of get "sucked" along at 30mph. |
| 2009-09-14 12:52 PM in reply to: #2405188 |
Member 313 Ventura County, California | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 9:58 AM I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. You would be missing out on a great workout, provided you are regularly rotating to the front and taking pulls. |
| 2009-09-14 12:53 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
| Master 2460 | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Yup - drafting at >20 mph is HUGE. About 30%, I've seen, and my experience seems to confirm. I hold 27mph in a draftline without much difficulty on a flat, but on my own, I struggle to stay over 25 for more than 10 minutes. It's the huge reason why so many draft-legal bike races are won in a mass sprint, and why in the TdF, special mention is given to the "peloton" which tends to suck up attacking riders en route. It also explains why most of the crucial time attacks on the TdF by the overall winners are done on the mountain stages - on the flats, a big attack will unintentionally pull other strong riders with you for a free ride. |
| 2009-09-14 12:53 PM in reply to: #2405309 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW TaylorB - 2009-09-14 10:52 AM Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 9:58 AM I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. You would be missing out on a great workout, provided you are regularly rotating to the front and taking pulls. This is true. I guess I was thinking of a coworker who bikes who tells me he just sits on the wheels of everyone for the whole ride. |
| 2009-09-14 1:06 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Elite 3395 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW When you reach greater than the low 20's per hour 90% of your energy is going to pushing yourself to overcome wind resistance. In that light the drafting benefit should seem like less of a surprise. |
| 2009-09-14 1:19 PM in reply to: #2405188 |
Elite 3683 Whispering Pines, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 12:58 PM Daremo - 2009-09-14 9:52 AM Now you know the allure of doing it in a tri .......... especially when it is late in the ride and people are starting to tire. I absolutely went ballistic on a group of about 8 guys yesterday in my race. I had passed them and said break it up. Then about a 1/2 mile later they all came by again telling me to move. I ripped them all a new one with some very choice language and then absolutely destroyed them. Yeah, may not have been the best thing for the later run portion of the race but at that point I didn't care as I am vehemently against drafting in races where it is not legal. I agree 100%. I love tri because it's mono a mono and you have to bank on your own ability... I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. Once I saw a women getting pulled by a guy for a whole bike leg of a triathlon. It didn't affect me, but I thought it was unfair to the other women competitors to have another girl probably turn in one of the fastest bike splits AND be fresher off the bike. Just wanted to correct your use of the expression...it should be "mano a mano" mono a mono means "monkey to monkey"... although, that probably applies here! Edited by tri_d00d 2009-09-14 1:25 PM |
| 2009-09-14 1:22 PM in reply to: #2405171 |
Member 210 | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW I absolutely went ballistic on a group of about 8 guys yesterday in my race. I had passed them and said break it up. Then about a 1/2 mile later they all came by again telling me to move. I ripped them all a new one with some very choice language and then absolutely destroyed them. Yeah, may not have been the best thing for the later run portion of the race but at that point I didn't care as I am vehemently against drafting in races where it is not legal. What exactly do you say to a rider (or group of riders) in a USAT race that you see drafting? Can you call out their numbers to the nearest race official? I mean, as a participant, you really have no authority over other participants, so what else can you do? Can you file a protest after the race? All of the bigger races I've done specifically say they'll have cops and judges on motorcycles on the course looking for drafters. And its stupid to risk disqualification on what is supposed to be a test of individual performance.  |
| 2009-09-14 1:24 PM in reply to: #2405234 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Dlaxman31 - 2009-09-14 12:17 PM trix - 2009-09-14 1:08 PM in training for my HIM i have been riding myself in a much more intesive course if you will, but used to ride in a fast group 26-30 mph.
thats a pretty interesting percentage bump. 27-30mph! Holy cow.. you guys are moving. its pretty much in line with the 30%, 20 mph x 130% = 26 mph. i can pull at 26 mph for a while, i can pull at 30 for a few min....the way I see it group riding makes you a stronger rider, if you do it once in a while. 1-2 times a month a nice 60 mile ride with a good group will push you pretty hard. |
| 2009-09-14 1:26 PM in reply to: #2405396 |
Elite 3371 | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW GregInAustin - 2009-09-14 2:22 PM I absolutely went ballistic on a group of about 8 guys yesterday in my race. I had passed them and said break it up. Then about a 1/2 mile later they all came by again telling me to move. I ripped them all a new one with some very choice language and then absolutely destroyed them. Yeah, may not have been the best thing for the later run portion of the race but at that point I didn't care as I am vehemently against drafting in races where it is not legal. What exactly do you say to a rider (or group of riders) in a USAT race that you see drafting? Can you call out their numbers to the nearest race official? I mean, as a participant, you really have no authority over other participants, so what else can you do? Can you file a protest after the race? All of the bigger races I've done specifically say they'll have cops and judges on motorcycles on the course looking for drafters. And its stupid to risk disqualification on what is supposed to be a test of individual performance. In ironman races (at least IMFL) its not an automatic DQ. Its a 4 minute penalty that must be served at a penalty tent along the course. Three penalties result in a DQ. So someone could potentially draft the entire race, get caught twice, serve their 8 minutes...and be way more fresh for the run. This is a real problem when these are athletes on the brink of Kona. |
| 2009-09-14 1:34 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Member 313 Ventura County, California | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW You can file a protest with the race officials and they will consider it. However, drafting is listing as a 'judgement call' and they are likely to throw it out. I guess when it comes to drafting, if a judge doesn't see it, then it didn't happen. |
| 2009-09-14 2:03 PM in reply to: #2405433 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW TaylorB - 2009-09-14 2:34 PM I guess when it comes to drafting, if a judge doesn't see it, then it didn't happen. Exactly. But hopefully at least one or two in the group said "You know, we're cheating right now" and backed it off. I like to have faith in people and see them as making a mistake ...... NOT as being blatant cheating azzholes. I did see that about 2 miles later when I looked back there was not a group behing me anymore and one guy who got caught in the group who I was trading back and forth with came by and we talked for a few seconds about it, both shaking our heads at how ridiculous it was. |
| 2009-09-14 2:15 PM in reply to: #2405315 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 11:53 AM TaylorB - 2009-09-14 10:52 AM Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 9:58 AM I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. You would be missing out on a great workout, provided you are regularly rotating to the front and taking pulls. This is true. I guess I was thinking of a coworker who bikes who tells me he just sits on the wheels of everyone for the whole ride. years ago I had a friend that would do this. normally I don't mind when we all share the work but he would just look for a wheel and latch on. I got to a point that i would drop him on hills and not look back. he had a reputation and nobody really wanted to ride with him. What really gets me are guys that suck your wheel and never let you know that they are there! |
| 2009-09-14 2:29 PM in reply to: #2405523 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW rayd - 2009-09-14 2:15 PM Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 11:53 AM TaylorB - 2009-09-14 10:52 AM Aikidoman - 2009-09-14 9:58 AM I would even say I would probably like to stay off a wheel even for training and mostly pull just so I'm not cheating myself in my workout. You would be missing out on a great workout, provided you are regularly rotating to the front and taking pulls. This is true. I guess I was thinking of a coworker who bikes who tells me he just sits on the wheels of everyone for the whole ride. years ago I had a friend that would do this. normally I don't mind when we all share the work but he would just look for a wheel and latch on. I got to a point that i would drop him on hills and not look back. he had a reputation and nobody really wanted to ride with him. What really gets me are guys that suck your wheel and never let you know that they are there! got i hate leechers....its the one thign that really really bugs me. I have a nice little 4 mile loop by my house around the golf course. its PERFECT, lots of cyclists since it has a huge bike lane. it is quite windy at 2 segments of the circle, so you have to push it pretty hard. so the moment i do a fast interval without fail there is a couple of aholes that always latch on to me....it annoys me to no end. i slow down so do they, i move to one side so do they, i feel like i waste even more energy trying to break away .... |
| 2009-09-14 2:29 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW I like to train how I am going to race so I stay out of pace lines. I think that you can definitely get a decent workout, especially if you are with a group that is pushing you harder than you would normally ride on your own, but I get too nervous about some of the near misses in the group rides I have done in the past. |
| 2009-09-14 2:35 PM in reply to: #2405523 |
Expert 927 Longview, TX | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW I really don't mind the leechers on club/group rides. I used to, because I felt that everybody should give a pull. But then I realized that some riders just aren't strong enough to give a good strong pull. And this in turn slows down the group, sometimes tremendously - to the point of causing chaos. Plus, it's not really hurting me that they're sitting on my wheel. In fact, it's a sign of respect. I'm getting my workout in, and they're getting a workout in too - at a speed they're not used to going. It's a win-win situation. And if I want a really good workout, I'll hang of the back in my aero bars and try to hang on to the group. Most of the time I find that riding in aero on my tri-bike and riding in the paceline on my roadie aren't too much different. Definitely a difference, but nothing I would consider overwhelming. Edited by jcbolton 2009-09-14 2:38 PM |
| 2009-09-14 2:46 PM in reply to: #2405154 |
Lethbridge, Alberta Bronze member | Subject: RE: Drafting on the Bike = WOW I really don't mind if someone is drafting when I'm training. Sure, they are doing the same speed with less effort but if that effort is appropriate for their training then it's all good. A couple of months back, a guy caught up to me while I was out on a ride. We chatted a bit and he said he said he had to work pretty hard to catch me. He drafted all the way back to town and still commented afterward that the pace was fast for him. I think I was working quite a bit harder once I knew I was pulling for someone else too. Good for both of us. |
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