"Get mad at your brother"

I used to Coach a High school swim team (Girls in the fall, boys in the winter) Had a real problem with parents  "Coaching from the bleachers"
Sat all the parents down and explained to them that we were the coaches and the AD told them that he would be glad to fire us and hire them. All of a sudden it got real aquiet and the problem ended.

And when he goes and beats the snot out of his brother, she is gonna be mad at this boy and wonder why he hit is brother!!!!

Parents is the reason I quit coaching youth sports.  They are the problem not the kids.  I remember winning a baseball game 17-3 and I took our most challenged skill player and moved him to third base for 2 innings, made his day, maybe his season, but the player I moved to the outfield parent blew a gasket, how dare I move his kid, he is better then the other. I dont get it.

Go to any kid sporting event and it will turn your stomach how some of the parents act.

My girls play soccer and some of the parents are so obnoxious and mean to their kids it is sad. My theory is the parents are living out their failed dreams via pushing their kids to be 'superstars'.

Our girls play on a town team that plays in a league with mostly club teams that tend to be expensive. Many parents seem to think if they pay $1500/year for their kids to play soccer, they will become super stars or they are super stars.

Sunday's game there was one father pacing the field staying even with the ball trying to will the ball into the goal so his daughter's team could win..he took it all so seriously and was coaching from the sidelines.

How can your child enjoy playing and participating if their parent takes it so seriously? I see the kids when their parents are coaching from the sidelines just deflate and the energy leaves them. Why don't their parents see they are sucking the fun out of the sport for their kids.

My attitude is none of the kids will be super stars, make the Olympics or get college scholarships. Hey did you have fun? Think you played your best? Cool..that is good is what I share with my kids.

What's funny is that the attitude you have is so much more likely to instill a love of the sport in the kids and then probably far and away more likely to actually be part of the making of a superstar.  You can make someone participate, but you can't make someone put their heart into it.  Your kids have a good mom, Kathy.

At what age is is acceptable to push and teach your child to reach beyond their limits?  13?  15?  16?  18--wait, there out of the house at 18...too late.

I agree with the sentiment posted here, of parents who end up creating kids who are hypercompetitive and aggressive.  Though judging from the 5 pages of posts in this thread, there are clearly many here who disagree.

As a youth football coach I have , on occasion, told kids to visualize a sibling when working on bringing out a bit more aggression. I've never told a kid to get mad at their brother, only to pretend the tackling dummy is their brother. Worked pretty well. Is that encouraging sibling rivalry or using what is already there?

The OP noted the kid seemed to be 8-10 years old.  And I think you are conflated pushing your limits with being a jerk.

- The mom wasn't telling the kid to beat his last time, she was telling him to "get mad at your brother". 
-The kid wasn't learning what his limits really were - the OP slowed down to give the kid a bone. (To reframe your question, at what age should you beat the snot out of a kid in a friendly competition, and not let them win because they are younger than you? 10? 8? 6? 2? - "ha, ha- I'm potty trained and you're not!"). 
-And the mom was modeling bad winning, by smirking when the kid passed the OP.  Did the mom really think the kid was beating tri_d00d?  Did she think when you win you should lord it over your competition? When you pass someone in a race, do you smirk at them as you go by? Do you offer some encouraging words ("looking strong", "C'mon, you can make it", "Don't let me beat you now", etc)? Do you just focus on your own race and not acknowledge them as you pass, beyond an "on your left" (which I think is fine in an event like triathlons)?

Maybe next time, tri_d00d should push himself and wipe the floor with the kid, then jump out of the water, arms raised, calling out "I win!", and taunting the kid for being a weak little loser, and mocking the mother for her ineffective coaching, while smirking at her. Bonus points for making the kid cry; double credit if the mom cries too.

Once they are old enough to understand the rules of the game/event/sport, and are old enough to know that your let them win is when you stop letting them win.

Mostly yes, but I think there is a difference between wiping the floor with your kid, and not letting them win. Plus there is the whole issue of the attitude while doing so.  I would also suggest engaging in activities that the kid will win - unless the parents' own self esteem is wrapped up in always being able to beat a child in a competitive activity. NOT "letting them win", just doing things that the kid is better at than the parent, at least once in a while.

You can teach them to reach beyond their limits at any age without being obnoxious about it.   Anything you teach your child "pushes their limits."

For sports, I push my boys just a little by telling them to "keep going, you got it!"  or having them swim a certain distance slightly longer than the last time at the pool before they run to the water slide.   Most kids will push themselves plenty.

As far as pushing them to run until they puke ... I'll let their football coaches do that when they're older.     I don't really feel that's my role.

Bottom line up front: Parents should give their kids opportunities, they should encourage their kids to get better, they should help teach them discipline needed to become better at their activities (be it sports, music, dance, etc.), and if they have the means, then help get them the coaches or instructors to make them better BUT MOST OF ALL teach them that sports and activities have to have an element of fun.  Encourage them to win, show them how winning can be more fun, but teach them sportsmanship that allows them to be the gracious loser--then tap into the disappointment of losing to make a point of getting better.  My parents, my Dad especially, did this for me as a kid and it was SUPER.

I had (have) awesome parents when it comes to sports. As a kid I played EVERYTHING I could--soccer, swimming, basketball, volleyball, softball, threw shot put and discus, etc. I love competition, so I loved playing sports.  The sport I played the longest was softball. Started out as t-ball, then to dad pitch baseball, and then I picked up girls softball and that was the sport that really stuck.  Throughout all of it, my parents were there cheering for me.  My Dad was there to practice with me.  In fact, I started pitching and I got fairly accurate with a generic underhand pitch. My Dad offered me a quarter for every strike-out during one of those seasons, 6th grade I think. He did the same the next season--in one year time, I doubled my "earnings."  He then offered to get me pitching lessons, but if he did that, the quarter deal went away. I agreed. I learned how to pitch the right way. The entire time, who is my coach? My Dad.  Who gets hit in the not so nice places when I throw not so well, my Dad.  He would push me and remind me of how to do it right, and we probably had a few rough practices. He made me go out sometimes when I didn't want to in order to practice, but he was able to teach me through it that if I practiced, I would get better, when I was better, the team won. I like to win.  I do not have any memories of it ever being my Dad living through me.  I do remember me asking him to go out and catch for me, and he always did. He'd push me to be better, but it was always my choice.  Then, I got good enough that I tried out for, and made, a traveling tournament softball team--this is 8th grade.  Now THESE PARENTS are what you area all talking about...holy cow it was ridiculous, and my parents were embaraced. We could win and the coach and parents would still be MAD and YELL at us about our performance.  Without any encouragement from my parents whatsoever, I quit that team and went back to "regular" league ball.  Why? Cause it was fun.  I was still the pitcher, and in league ball, heck, I was pretty good.  My parents told me this was a pride moment for them because they knew I was playing to have fun.  I love to win, but I love to have fun more.  I ended up playing college softball, and come my junior year, it was sort of the same story. I wasn't having fun anymore because at that level it really is "win, win, win."  So, I quit. I was a huge cheerleader for the team, but I wasn't playing.  I wanted to have fun.  Now, it's running and triathlon, and my parents think I'm crazy (in a good type of crazy way) but they are still there encouraging me...I have a fierce competitive streak, but it was cultivated by a sense of making myself a better person, player, pitcher, athlete, because that enabled me and my team to win.  Not by focusing on things like "make your brother mad." Ugh, how disgusting.  The best part, my parents ALWAYS encouraged, sacrificed, and supported what I did...but never once did they force me to do it.  They were 100% gung ho with me on it all, but never was it was forced.

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I’m struggling with this question a little too. I’m curious what peoples’ opinions are.

My son, who’s 5, really wants to do this kids triathlon next June (It was his idea, not mine. He asked me if there were tris for kids and the race I’m doing happens to have one.) But he’s going to have to work a little between now and then to get there. He’s just learning to ride without training wheels, and he can only swim about half the distance without stopping that he’ll need to swim in the race.

I don’t expect that he’ll win, and I genuinely don’t care. What I’m struggling with a little is that I want him to understand that if this is something that he wants, he needs to work for it and, on race day, that he needs to put forth some effort and not just quit halfway through the swim because it’s hard. I’m not sure how to do that without “pushing” him or making this more intense than it needs to be. Suggestions?

One of the things my folks would do for me is help me set goals.  Goal setting is a GREAT tool for kids to learn that they need later on in life.  Together we'd sit down and talk about the end goal and then what I had to do to get from A-B and we would make an agreement together. They clearly laid out what was needed, helped hold me accountable, but I wasn't surprised by it either.  Set some sort of incentive for him for the end of the tri, but also maybe for the "training" that he'd have to do.  Try to make that process fun and has his input.  Then he owns it, you can help hold him accountable, and he has a goal to work towards. One thing, as a young kid (like your kids age) that they'd do is, for several different things, was put a picture of the "goal" on a piece of construction paper.  Then they would put "star stickers" on the sheet each time I did what was necessary to reach that goal.  It was a good visual motivator, and made me want to fill the paper with stars....I think the BT Logs and calendars work well for me--I get to put my stars on the paper.

Edited by TexasMPGal 2009-09-15 10:35 AM

From experience, my 9 year-old son struggled his first season in soccer. He wanted to quit. We spoke with him about making a commitment and sticking to it. We discussed how he can't expect everything in life to be easy. Many things in life are worth working hard for, etc. If he really wanted to quit, fine, but don't quit just because it is hard. Many things in life are hard and you succeeded...crawling, walking, riding a bike, roller blades, video games, etc.

In a team sport, there are some other dynamics, but I think the message is the same. Play for your pride and know that only through hard work and dedication will you get better and enjoy the sport more. He has practiced harder and taken direction from the coach better and is having more fun than last year.

That's a great idea. I was thinking of doing something similar.

Tell him he needs to do X,Y and Z (train) before he can race and then help him and encourage him to do those things. My step daughter (10 and very athletic) wanted to do a kids tri and I told her I would sign her up as soon as she demonstrated a consistent training routine. I told her I would help her set up a plan that would get her to the start line prepared, but that in the mean time (a couple of weeks) she needed to at least ride her bike a couple of times, run a couple of times, and swim a couple of times. Her grandparents on her dad's side live close and have a pool. It's less than a mile. She could even run or bike over there (gee, what a novel idea). She didn't. I will not push her and will not do it for her but will help her if/when she demonstrates desire and willingness. She talks a good game.
FWIW, I was the same with my biological kids and they turned out ok.

At 5, he may not be able to see the gap between where he is and where he needs to be.  Your job, as a parent, is to help him bridge the gap.  Like others said, helping him with the knowing the goals, and daily reminders of his progress is the way to go.  You can get kind of creative.  I would think about approaching it this way - "OK, there is a race you can do.  Here's how long the different parts are. Let's go see how far you can swim/bike/run" (I would do these on different days).  After he completes the test phase, make up a chart.  I might put some pictures of him swimming/biking/running on it, and use a piece of posterboard that we can put somewhere prominent. You figure out the training schedule (and maybe put one of your own alongside, so he feels like he is training with dad.  I would use something like 3 lines of boxes, each box being a day of practice, with a finish line at the end.  Maybe every so many boxes is a goal point - swimming 50 yards without stopping, 100 yards, etc.  Hopefully you know your son's temperament so you know whether he needs to be encouraged/pushed or given breaks to regroup when the going gets tough.  I would also probably make a bigger show of my own days of struggling  to work out, so he can practice talking me through (which he can then use on himself) - "I am so tired from work today.  I really need a pep talk to get up the energy for my run tonight.  Help me out, little buddy".

The other thing to keep in mind is that between now and June, a lot can change, both in terms of his physical skills and his motivation.  Just keep attuned to him and keep it fun.

Just based on my own observation, a lot of times a kids involvement in sports seems to have a lot more to do with the parent then with the kids.  Too bad, really.  Then again, I don't have kids, so what do I know?

I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad?

How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there.

If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue.