Do I need a run coach?
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm recovering from an injury (hamstring and/or SI joint issue and/or piriformis problem, it's a little unclear what, but the bum/hamstring hurt, piriformis stretching helped, as did resting...). I'm almost at the point where I could run again -- maybe next week -- and I'm super excited to get back to doing what I love best. That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. I'm terrified of changing anything about my running. I've been running like this for years, and think if it ain't broke don't fix it. And while I get sometimes injuries from poor running are cumulative and more of a "straw that broke the camel's hamstring" kinda deal, i.e. it was already broke you just didn't know it so go fix it, I'm worried that changing my gait will 1. mess up other things and cause different injuries and 2. make me slower before it makes me faster again. How do I know that overstriding was really a problem? Should I change the way I run? Anyone have a run coach work on their run form? Pros? Cons? Opinions? Pictures of baby animals? Thanks! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() swishyskirt - 2012-05-02 4:17 PM I'm recovering from an injury (hamstring and/or SI joint issue and/or piriformis problem, it's a little unclear what, but the bum/hamstring hurt, piriformis stretching helped, as did resting...). I'm almost at the point where I could run again -- maybe next week -- and I'm super excited to get back to doing what I love best. That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. I'm terrified of changing anything about my running. I've been running like this for years, and think if it ain't broke don't fix it. And while I get sometimes injuries from poor running are cumulative and more of a "straw that broke the camel's hamstring" kinda deal, i.e. it was already broke you just didn't know it so go fix it, I'm worried that changing my gait will 1. mess up other things and cause different injuries and 2. make me slower before it makes me faster again. How do I know that overstriding was really a problem? Should I change the way I run? Anyone have a run coach work on their run form? Pros? Cons? Opinions? Pictures of baby animals? Thanks! Hey swishy. I still need to find a team for that Ragnar relay, but in the meantime . . . I started working with a coach a month and a half ago, and I'm a fan. I didn't sign up with a coach to work on form, so I can't speak directly to your question, but I think a good coach would not impose change just for change's sake. I did have one video analysis of my stride as part of a PT session last summer and it was actually very instructive (if you have never done a video analysis, you would be amazed at the difference between how you perceive your form and what your form actually looks like -- it's like a visual verision of hearing a recording of your own voice), but that was just a one-time thing. What I've liked best about having a coach is that she (1) has taken me out of my comfort zone and set up a training schedule that I simply would never have come up with on my own (despite lots of research and reading and thinking that I was setting up an effective routine), and (2) has been effective in making me faster, from which I conclude that my comfort zone was not a good place to reside when seeking improvement. I think the same principal would apply to a coach helping with form too. Edited by Ershk 2012-05-02 4:47 PM |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If you are over striding, it probably couldn't hurt to change it, right? You can always go do a gait analysis and then not change if you don't like what they have to say. Or you can just get right back to running how you have always done. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hmmm. I'm not a coach. In reality it is very, very difficult to exert a conscious change on your running style at speed. It can be done, but it is difficult. Usually when fatigue and velocity enter the equation you revert back to your innate biomechanics be thay good, bad or indifferent. Like most U.S. runners you likely just need to run more. A lot more. One of two things will happen: 1. You will get more injured, which is bad. 2. You will get faster, which is good. Also, like many U.S. runners you likely need to- and I sincerely apologize for this being rude or insenstive, I don't mean it that way- ahhhhhh.... lose weight. Nearly all of us need to lose weight. How much? Well, let's look: |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Tom Demerly. - 2012-05-02 2:49 PM Hmmm. I'm not a coach. In reality it is very, very difficult to exert a conscious change on your running style at speed. It can be done, but it is difficult. Usually when fatigue and velocity enter the equation you revert back to your innate biomechanics be thay good, bad or indifferent. Like most U.S. runners you likely just need to run more. A lot more. One of two things will happen: 1. You will get more injured, which is bad. 2. You will get faster, which is good. Also, like many U.S. runners you likely need to- and I sincerely apologize for this being rude or insenstive, I don't mean it that way- ahhhhhh.... lose weight. Nearly all of us need to lose weight. How much? Well, let's look: Check her photo album. This^^^ is NOT her problem. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have no way of knowing whether there's a connection between your gait and your injuries. A video could be really useful for getting a handle on that (try posting one here as a first step). But i'm not sure that getting a run coach would be the solution to that issue, if indeed it is an issue. Many swim coaches are trained to pay close attention to technique, and there are some pretty standard ideas about what one should be doing. Run coaches are far less likely to be experts on gait. And those that do have ideas about gait are just as likely to have a one-size-fits-all idea that might not be right for you. Run coaches are all about the conditioning, the mileage, the intervals, yadda yadda. So if you're concerned about gait and injuries, I don't think a run coach is your best bet. |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2012-05-02 5:17 PM |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Tom Demerly. - 2012-05-02 4:49 PM Hmmm. I'm not a coach. In reality it is very, very difficult to exert a conscious change on your running style at speed. It can be done, but it is difficult. Usually when fatigue and velocity enter the equation you revert back to your innate biomechanics be thay good, bad or indifferent. Like most U.S. runners you likely just need to run more. A lot more. One of two things will happen: 1. You will get more injured, which is bad. 2. You will get faster, which is good. Also, like many U.S. runners you likely need to- and I sincerely apologize for this being rude or insenstive, I don't mean it that way- ahhhhhh.... lose weight. Nearly all of us need to lose weight. How much? Well, let's look: Tom, on the whole, I agree with a lot of what you have to say (and, incidentally, am currently enjoying "Swim Speed Secrets" on your recommendation -- thank you), but I've got to challenge you a bit on this one, not because its rude or insensitive, but because, with respect to the OP, it's entirely out of left field as a possible cause of injury (which I think is what prompted her question). The super-elite athletes are certainly carrying a lot less body fat than the general population, but I don't think that's related to injury-prevention (I think they get injured too from time to time). A no-body-fat elite is probably going to get injured less than someone who is overweight, but I would be wiling to bet that weight, as a factor between a no-body-fat elite and a reasonably fit and healthy "normal" human, does not account for any material difference in likelihood of injury (if there is such a difference between such groups). Now if you're just saying that trimming down will make you faster, that might be true, but so will a variety of other factors, like all of the training that goes into trimming down, improving form, good nutrition, adequate rest and recovery . . . Edited by Ershk 2012-05-02 5:25 PM |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() "Check her photo album. This^^^ is NOT her problem."
In fairness I have not seen a larger photo than the little one in the original post. Point taken. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() blbriley - 2012-05-02 6:03 PM Tom Demerly. - 2012-05-02 2:49 PM Hmmm. I'm not a coach. In reality it is very, very difficult to exert a conscious change on your running style at speed. It can be done, but it is difficult. Usually when fatigue and velocity enter the equation you revert back to your innate biomechanics be thay good, bad or indifferent. Like most U.S. runners you likely just need to run more. A lot more. One of two things will happen: 1. You will get more injured, which is bad. 2. You will get faster, which is good. Also, like many U.S. runners you likely need to- and I sincerely apologize for this being rude or insenstive, I don't mean it that way- ahhhhhh.... lose weight. Nearly all of us need to lose weight. How much? Well, let's look: Check her photo album. This^^^ is NOT her problem. LOL. indeed. thx. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fred D - 2012-05-02 6:21 PM swishyskirt - 2012-05-02 5:17 PM Actually just read your post again. Have you tried an experienced deep tissue massage therapist as the soft tissue issues you have are probably connected with the whole kinetic chain and in the past the deep tissue folks have helped me the most.I'm recovering from an injury (hamstring and/or SI joint issue and/or piriformis problem, it's a little unclear what, but the bum/hamstring hurt, piriformis stretching helped, as did resting...). I'm almost at the point where I could run again -- maybe next week -- and I'm super excited to get back to doing what I love best. That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. I'm terrified of changing anything about my running. I've been running like this for years, and think if it ain't broke don't fix it. And while I get sometimes injuries from poor running are cumulative and more of a "straw that broke the camel's hamstring" kinda deal, i.e. it was already broke you just didn't know it so go fix it, I'm worried that changing my gait will 1. mess up other things and cause different injuries and 2. make me slower before it makes me faster again. How do I know that overstriding was really a problem? Should I change the way I run? Anyone have a run coach work on their run form? Pros? Cons? Opinions? Pictures of baby animals? Thanks! Eh, the closest I've gotten is my PT does ART on me. But he's stayed away from being too aggressive on manipulating the hamstring itself. Mostly he works on my tight hip flexors (which, no matter HOW many times I do the hip flexor lunge stretch, I continue to suffer from) and some piriformis stuff. I'm also totally on board about needing better glute and hip strength, so I've been doing exercises to work on that (which apparently I HAVE improved significantly over the past 6 months, according to the PT). My feeling had been that I pushed too hard on an 18 miler, followed by going all out at a half marathon a week later -- just a standard "too much too soon" situation. But if a sports doc and a PT say that my stride might be causing my injury, I'm willing to look at it. My biggest fear is as a previous poster said that someone will apply a "one size fits all" method to my running, and I don't think that will have a positive outcome... Has anyone successfully changed their running form, either on their own or with a coach? |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I agree with Colin that a run coach is not necessarily the one to fix any gait problem. I agree with Fred that deep tissue massage, done by someone who REALLY knows what he or she is doing, can be very beneficial. So far you have only one person's opinion that you might be overstriding, based on teh supposition that it could be causing your injuries. That's not really much basis on whcih to make a change, IMHO. Do YOU think that you are overstriding? |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Does being attractive have anything to do with speed and injury? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have to disagree with Tom on this one. Respect his opinion in many things but..... piriformis/ sciatica/ SI issues are most likely NOT related to weight. I'm Chrissie's height (between 5'7" and 5'8") and a bit lighter (less musclular build) than she is, 115-120 pounds; very similar build to Kara Goucher despite lots of swimming and attempts at strength training. And I have suffered from this stuff for almost a decade. I have many friends and competitors who are very lean as well and suffer similar injuries. If anything, thinner people are more likely to aggravate piriformis issues, just because there's less padding down there, so sitting for prolonged periods such as at work, commuting, or flights is likely to irritate the nerve more. Much more likely to be something biomechanical. In my case I'm pretty sure of the cause (traumatic injuries to SI joint and hamstring leading to muscle imbalances); in the OP's case, it would be a good idea to have a PT and/or running coach make some suggestions. My guess is that if you've running for years with no problem, then your stride, while maybe not ideal in terms of efficiency, is not really a contributing factor. But you could try making some changes over limited distance and see if you notice any difference in soreness one way or another. If other areas seem sore, then just return to your normal stride. I've found a lot of relief with ART, icing after each run/ride, focused stretching and strengthening (esp. hamstrings and hip flexors), limiting run speedwork, and, oddly, biking, which seems to strengthen my glutes, whose relative weakness may have been a contributing factor. It's never 100% but seems much less of an issue than in the past. While weight may be a risk factor in many injuries, it's probably not in this case and I think the assumption that people always need to lose weight is dangerous given the number of women out there with eating disorders. Simply running more when there are underlying mechanical issues is probably not wise until there is some work at resolving those issues. Hope you are able to resolve this soon! |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hot Runner - 2012-05-03 6:45 AM I have to disagree with Tom on this one. Respect his opinion in many things but..... piriformis/ sciatica/ SI issues are most likely NOT related to weight. I'm Chrissie's height (between 5'7" and 5'8") and a bit lighter (less musclular build) than she is, 115-120 pounds; very similar build to Kara Goucher despite lots of swimming and attempts at strength training. And I have suffered from this stuff for almost a decade. I have many friends and competitors who are very lean as well and suffer similar injuries. If anything, thinner people are more likely to aggravate piriformis issues, just because there's less padding down there, so sitting for prolonged periods such as at work, commuting, or flights is likely to irritate the nerve more. Much more likely to be something biomechanical. In my case I'm pretty sure of the cause (traumatic injuries to SI joint and hamstring leading to muscle imbalances); in the OP's case, it would be a good idea to have a PT and/or running coach make some suggestions. My guess is that if you've running for years with no problem, then your stride, while maybe not ideal in terms of efficiency, is not really a contributing factor. But you could try making some changes over limited distance and see if you notice any difference in soreness one way or another. If other areas seem sore, then just return to your normal stride. I've found a lot of relief with ART, icing after each run/ride, focused stretching and strengthening (esp. hamstrings and hip flexors), limiting run speedwork, and, oddly, biking, which seems to strengthen my glutes, whose relative weakness may have been a contributing factor. It's never 100% but seems much less of an issue than in the past. While weight may be a risk factor in many injuries, it's probably not in this case and I think the assumption that people always need to lose weight is dangerous given the number of women out there with eating disorders. Simply running more when there are underlying mechanical issues is probably not wise until there is some work at resolving those issues. Hope you are able to resolve this soon! Thanks for your advice. I've just started being able to do some stretching of the hamstring again, but I have noticed that piriformis stretches have really helped a lot. I agree -- lack of padding makes the piriformis thing so much worse! I sit down more than 8 hours a day at work, so I've been trying to stand up and walk more frequently (my co-workers think I'm nuts -- I'm always standing at my desk or standing in meetings). I think the reason my doc thought it was overstriding is because I've had this injury before (well, something similar to it, anyway -- the piriformis issue wasn't part of it but I did have a hamstring pull/strain/tear) about a year and a half ago. Not sure if I reinjured because of the way I run or because now it's just more likely to get injured because it's weakened somehow...does two times in 1.5 years make this a chronic injury? I guess I'll go get a gait analysis and see what they say. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() swishyskirt - 2012-05-02 6:17 PM That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. Have these two individuals ever seen you run? Shane |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() gsmacleod - 2012-05-03 8:12 AM swishyskirt - 2012-05-02 6:17 PM That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. Have these two individuals ever seen you run? ShaneYou know, actually they haven't. Well, technically I've run with my sports doc before, but I don't think he was watching my stride or anything. I guess I just assumed that since it wasn't a traumatic blunt force injury or anything that might have happened suddenly, it must be an "overuse" type injury. When he said he thought I might be overstriding, I thought that sounded reasonable... I figured that's how one gets hamstring injuries, right? By overstriding? Or at the very least, some sort of mechanical problem in my running. Is that not correct? Could it possibly be a "too much, too soon" situation and once it's healed, I'm good to go? |
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![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have successfully changed my running form completely on my own. I went from a heel striking over strider with a fairly lumbering type gait (yikes the first time I saw myself on video!!) to a mid foot striker with a very quick cadence. I went from struggling in a 5k and fighting constant injury to comfortable in 20m + runs. It certainly can be done. For me, it's all about efficiency and injury prevention. |
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![]() | ![]() swishyskirt - 2012-05-03 8:28 AM gsmacleod - 2012-05-03 8:12 AM swishyskirt - 2012-05-02 6:17 PM That said -- my sports doc thinks perhaps I am an overstrider and that might have caused the hamstring issues. My PT thinks I should go get a run coach who can analyze (and potentially fix) my gait problem. Have these two individuals ever seen you run? ShaneYou know, actually they haven't. Well, technically I've run with my sports doc before, but I don't think he was watching my stride or anything. I guess I just assumed that since it wasn't a traumatic blunt force injury or anything that might have happened suddenly, it must be an "overuse" type injury. When he said he thought I might be overstriding, I thought that sounded reasonable... I figured that's how one gets hamstring injuries, right? By overstriding? Or at the very least, some sort of mechanical problem in my running. Is that not correct? Could it possibly be a "too much, too soon" situation and once it's healed, I'm good to go? My opinion, for what little it is worth, is that they are mearly suggestion you get with someone to do an analysis, no that you actually change. And they are suggesting you go to an expert, which I think is smart advise instead of trying to evaulate it themselves, which they might not have the expertiece in. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. But, BT can do that for you for free. But, you mentioned that you ramped up and ramped up too soon, so odds are good this is the point of your issue and if you did it this time I bet you did it before as well. Cause we are creatures of habit. |
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![]() | ![]() I had similar troubles with my hamstrings for a couple of years. I did a lot of ART and deep tissue massage, which helped some but never got me fully healthy. I had the same problem with tight abductors. I felt fine while running but had excruciating aching in my hamstring when I sat for too long or in the wrong seat (including my car!). What I think fixed it for good was changing my form from running with my pelvis tilted forward (belly extended) to running with my pelvis tucked in (belly tucked). Roughly, this is the difference between running with your upper body tilted back and running with your upper body tilted forward, but the key is that it happens from pelvic tilt. Running with your pelvis tilted forward keeps your abductors tight (and tires them out on long runs) and puts lots of stress on your over-extended hamstrings. Running with your pelvis tucked in replaces that abductor and hamstring stress with much healthier stress on the glutes, which are much more well made for it. The more forward posture will also necessarily move your foot strike forward as well. It's very hard to make that sort of change in running form by just thinking about it, though, or at least it was for me. One thing I think finally helped a lot was committing to getting in strides and drills 2-3 times a week year round. It's really hard to sprint or run at any significant speed when you're leaning back. Running fast will gradually teach you to tuck in your pelvis and lean forward more. The change happened naturally as I worked on the drills and faster running rather than trying to manually tweak individual movements. I had the idea of tucking my pelvis and leaning forward in my head, but it took a few months of faster running with that idea in mind before it felt efficient and effortless. I remember lots and lots of weeks of strides trying to figure out where to land on my foot, but now it feels natural, and the wondering about my foot strike seems a little silly. The drills and strides are easy and fun to fit into my weekly running schedule. I just plan to run by a track a couple of days a week and do 4x100 drills, jogging the curves, then 8x100 strides, again jogging the curves. I count the 1.5 miles has part of my weekly mileage, so it doesn't add to or subtract from my weekly mileage, and it nicely breaks the monotony of base mileage. For drills, I do some combination of high knees, butt kickers, sideways running, backwards running, quick stepping, skipping, and loping. The strides can be anywhere from 3k to 400 pace depending on how I feel that day (working up to full speed sprinting for 30 yards or so when I'm in shape for it). Obviously, you could do the same on your regular route if you don't have access to or like tracks, but I enjoy getting off the road onto the track for a bit. I also did some plyometric type strengthening exercises (frog jumps, lunges, wall jumps, etc) with the same form thoughts in mind, which can help strengthen the glutes. And stretching certainly helps. But I really think the main thing was the actual running practice to fix the core posture problem. After working on this for a few months, I found that my abductors relaxed a lot and got a lot less tired on longer runs, replaced by healthier stress on my glutes. I haven't had that awful deep ache in my hamstring while sitting for over a year now, and really, really don't miss it. Writing this up was actually quite helpful for me, b/c I've licked the problem enough that I haven't really thought specifically about my pelvic tilt for a while (though I've been very good about keeping up the strides, which keeps my form reasonable). I've also gotten a lot faster, somewhat because of better efficiency, but surely more because I've been able to run pretty high mileage for a sustained period without getting injured. Hope this helps! |
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Pro![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() This is to Tom, not the OP, so sorry for the hijack:
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() trishie - 2012-05-03 3:05 PM . . . instead of posting it on a public board read by many people -- including true beginners. I don't understand this. True beginners, me included, can benefit from the reality that, for a very large percentage of true beginners, losing weight will reduce injury potential and increase speed. I can say that I never really drew the strong correlation between weight and injury/speed until reading about it here. Now, it seems ridiculously obvious but, as a true beginner, I just never put two and two together. We read testimonials here all the time, from true beginners, that their weight-loss has not only significantly improved their athletic performance, but also their lives. I don't see a suggestion to lose weight any more hurtful than the tried and true suggestion to run more - mostly easy, sometimes hard. It's just generalized advice. It might not be the perfect advice for every single poster soliciting advice on an open forum, but it probably applies most of the time. IMO, of course.
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If I were a true beginner, possibly overweight, I would find it really discouraging to see an obviously thin, fit, beautiful woman (based on her avatar) being told that she needs to lose weight to avoid injury. If she, who looks like that, needs to lose weight, then I will obviously hurt myself doing this and I shouldn't try. |
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