Ironman Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 102)

I was sobbing as well afterwards! SO PROUD!

Muppet is Chrissy's "clumsy" nickname she earned growing up because she was sorta a klutz.

serious question here...

So I went with 7 other team members on an OWS and we were out about 800 yards and I felt as if I needed to 'release the hounds'. On the way back in the cramps were awful  and my swim was pretty much halted as I did not want to 'release the hounds' into a different but as enclosed 'pen'. I made my way back to shore but at a slow slow SLOW pace.

Question is, are there porto potties to go #2 before lap #2 of the swim????

I don't recall seeing any within the swim area,  There were some next to the playground that I remember (towards transition)  though it would have been a little hike to go there and back.

HITS did a great job putting on the event. Everything was organized and very well run. The course was beautiful too. There were 119 finishers for the HIM, and 19 for the Full. They don't list DNFs so I'm not 100% sure how many started.

Seriously? No posts yet today? Come on you slackers! Not everyone works out at night! 

Who's got their training in already today? What did you do?!

Tonight is at least 2400 OWS yards (hoping for 3200 but will be time restricted) and at least an hour on the bike.

haha... busy training Senor.... busy training... no time to post!

Here is my shhhhedule for the camp

Thu: 40 min swim, bike the run course

Fri: 2 loop swim, 1 loop bike, 30 min run

Sat: 1 loop swim, 2 loop bike, 1hr run

Sun: 2.5hr run... drive home 4 hrs... baby back ribs for dinner

yeehaw,,,,, Jester's dead

You're going to be up there this weekend? Are you part of a camp?  We are going up Friday afternoon but not part of a camp.

Doing what I always do...well 3 days of the week at least. Morning swim workout of about 2000-3000 yards, afternoon bike of 30 miles and a 5-8 mile brick run after the bike. Trying to get in as much as I can cause I started a little late on my training(late april)... do that three days a week and then weekends are at least 4-6 hours bikes on saturday and a 2 hour bike to 1 hour run on sundays. fill in days I do about an hour and a half on the bike easy. no rest days as I am just too far behind I feel to take any...

Hey guys and gals, long time no post, been trying to keep up on reading, need to go back.  I hope everyone is recovery from issues, like me, I'm trying to get back to run/bike, more knee problems for me.  My issue is now working in as much training as I can without another setback.  I was doing the fink competitive plan, kinda, I am now looking at fink just finish and the bike and run volumes on the long days/weekends still worry me about ramping up my long bike and run and reinjuring my knee since it still feels flaky (weak/achy).

Any suggestions/thoughts?

We are really close and excite but scared at being undertrained.

Who else thinks Dream Chaser is sitting back with Vodoo dolls of us all picking us off 1 by 1

1. Mikfinne - Strees Fracture

2. Triguy1043 - Crash on the Keene Descent (but i'm Back)

3. Swima - Broken Metatrsal - (In Boot)

4. Mdfahy - Knee issues

5. Tankboy (Dreams arch nemisis) - Knee issues

If he has not poked you yet be ready train safe!!

All Kidding aside my heart breaks for all of us, who are going through injury. And I Know for SURE Dream feels the same way.

5 weeks and change left train smart and safe - Goal is to get to the start line healthy and enjoy the day!!

Already did my swim 3500 yards continous in the pool and for dessert 1 hour 30 bike ride.

Friday 1:20 swim and then a 1:30 run

Saturday 5:30 bike (Found some Cat 2 hills to climb, great balls of fire!!) followed by a 1:00 run (Will be biking to LBS to swap out cassette found out that I have been running on a 11-26, will be moving to a 11-28)

Sunday 2:45 run then my second OWS swim of the year, followed by a 1:15 bike (Happy Fathers Day)

No...No... There's two "O's" in Goose boys, two "O's"

I had the knee problem last year training for my first HIM.  I ended up getting a brace about a month before the race.  I have been wearing it ever since.  My knee still feels weak like if I ran too long I would re-aggravate it.  Being as close as I am to LP I'm not going to chance it so I'll be training with it and even will be wearing it for the race.   

owwww! My knee hurts!! Take that pin out of my doll, please.

But I will ice it just to be safe...

(Love that movie-I could quote 50 different lines but I'll give with one of my favorites from Ice:

"the plaque for the alternates is down in the ladies room")

Title: Pacing Strategies duing an Ironman Triathon; Physiological Responses and Performance Outcomes 

Hello! Researchers from the University of Connecticut are looking for 40 subjects to participate in a research 

study to be conducted before,during, and immediately after the Lake Placid Ironman. 

This is a study looking to examine pacing habits of Ironman triathletes and how race day pacing strategies 

relate to performance and physiological responses. 

You are eligible to participate if: 
-Racing at Ironman Lake Placid 
-Between ages of 18-60 
-Plan to finish in under 13hr 

Upon completion of the study, subjects will receive all personal research data. Participants will also 

receive a Timex Run Trainer for completion of the study. 

To learn more about this study please contact: Evan Johnson at [email protected]

860-486-2543. 

Thanks! 


This research is being conducted by the Korey Stringer Institute at the University of Connecticut under the direction of Dr. Douglas Casa 

within the Kinesiology Departement. This protocol has been approved by the University of Connecticut - Institutional Review Board, protocol # H12-117

One of the hardest moments in My Life (and definitely thee hardest of my athletic life) was handing my timing chip back the day before Race Day in 2010.  I got tendonitis in my left knee from cycling the last weekend in June.  I stayed off the bike for three weeks.  Took the family up the Lake Placid (knowing full well I'd likely not race).  Got my Race packet and chip at packet pick-up.  The day before the Race I rode for about 30 minutes and the pain in my knee was just so intense and debilitating I knew it was over. 

So I fully empathize with everyone dealing with injuries right now.  Unfortunately, it's the nature of the long-course beast.  We're not meant to race 70.3 miles ; let alone 140.6. 

The reason slogans ARE SLOGANS are cause they're true.  And the slogan that states getting to the Ironman starting line healthy is one of our primary goals, is so damn true.  And when I see people fretting over "interval work" .... REALLY?  Are you kidding me?!?! 

Unless you are an ELITE AGE GROUPER or PROFESSIONAL Triathlete DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANY DAMN INTERVALS.  Concentrate on SAFELY getting in VOLUME.  It's an ENDURANCE Race ; not a SPRINT.  The intervals are going to make a damn bit of difference on Race Day.  Not a damn bit. 

It's the 2.5 hour Long Runs and the 5 hour+ Bike rides and hour+ swims at an AEROBIC PACE that will Make or Break Your Ironman Race.  I mean really.   Intervals work your ANAEROBIC System.  And guess how much your ANAEROBIC System is going to help you on Race Day.  It's your AEROBIC System you will be relying on. 

Aerobic Training (Zone 2) allows us to safely put "hay in the barn" and "stuff miles into our bodies".  Safe Smart Volume Training.  There is maybe 2 people in this entire thread who have any case to even worry about Intervals and Zone 4 work.  So please, no more talk about intervals. 

Rest.  Recovery.  Proper Technique in all three Disciplines.  And Zone 2 work.  Along with a focus on Nutrition.  Those are your Ironman keys for the average AG'er.  KEEP IT SIMPLE. 

And, yeah, I'm cranky.  Freaking radiator went on the minivan and the dealership told me it's 1,000 bucks for a new one!!  A GRAND FOR A FREAKING RADIATOR!?!?  YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?

Totally agree with showing up healthy above all else.

Other than that, what is the response to the scientific evidence coming out over the past 10 years or so that indicates that interval training is a more time efficient way to get many of the same benefits as aerobic workouts?    For example, check out the tables at the end of this article, which indicate that threshold and VO2max intervals are the best bang-for-the-buck in terms of time spent training: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx

Yes, there is something to building up tolerance for sitting on a bike saddle for 6+ hours, as there is something to building up the connective tissue strength to endure pounding pavement for 3-4 hours.  However, many training plans and coaches plans involve interval training for a reason - because they can provide huge benefit for the time invested.  Even for the average AG'er.  

all training involves some risk of injury-

if you follow runners training for marathons most injuries happen in the final period/build-the peak of volume and intensity, so when the little injuries start, it is best to pay attention to them and not let them become a bigger problem-that way the athlete can make it to the starting line--I'd imagine that the same sort of thing happens in triathlon training, but I am a novice in the triworld, so please forgive me, I come from a running background

intervals definitely have more bang for the buck in terms of improving speed at all distances, but the risk of injury vs aerobic training with volume or LT training is substantially higher and should only be done if the training volume is appropriate for that particuliar athlete and their injury risk low

DC has appropriately stated that those athlete's that are further over on the 'bell curve'-more elite and conditioned, do need to do more intense training to progress, but their risk is less as they have defined themselves to be a different athlete-and can handle higher training volumes and faster paces, as well as having a genetic gift-ha

for the majority of people, 'listening to your body' when it tells you that fatigue is significant and resting enough is more important than training harder

we are all individuals, but the sequence of training/periodization should be similiar:

base (volume)>strength(includes hills/power)>intensity/speed(stuff faster than race pace)>sharpening>peak>taper>race-----and you can add form/technique as a constant for the Swim portion

as they say in the CT Lotto commercials "you can't win if you don't play"-so making it to the starting line should be PRIORITY one

edited to add: and there are substantially different systems being trained when you are looking for benefits from long aerobic workouts vs intervals (shorter, much higher intensity repeats-with varying rest)

the first benefit of the connective tissues doesn't happen from the fast stuff-it happens with time on your feet, or time in the saddle-converting fast twitch fibers and strengthening connective tissue to withstand LONG efforts

only then can you progress into faster workbouts to have benefits of neuromuscular entrainment and calling on specific muscles to help when running (or biking or swimming) faster or tired

but the best benefit is LT training and some of this is because of specificity and some of it is because of the fact that by training near our LT, muscles must adapt to handle that type of stress and changes occur over time making it easier for the future with the added benefit of LESS risk of injury

(notice that in peak marathon training, many plans have vo2 max intervals that are only done at peak for a couple of workouts, and then for only 5-10% of the total weekly volume of training-like 3-5x1mile HARD with a 40-50 miles/week program)

and as for coaching...well many coaches today still subscribe to the volume method of the past-having all athlete's do more and some will be able to take it and benefit, and some will get injured-but the one's that can handle it can go on to try intensity workouts (and some of them will become injured) but the ones that survive will really be the best athlete's that that coach has

I'm just not thrilled with this type of coaching-and I see it in RUNNING programs across the country still, Tallking with my swim coach, it still happens there too. I have no information about cycling....

Thanks, I think you mentioned this the first time I got knee issues in early April. I finally went to the doc and got a knee brace in May.  I wore it for my HIM in May and made a PR and felt good before, during and after the race.  Then the next weekend I did a 75 mile brick and the knee pain was back.  I wear it on and off for training, I wanted to test my run without it but only went for an hour and was fine.  I've also been going to a PT and that has been a huge help in figuring out some strengthing exercises for it.  So, I just want to complete the final weeks and see if I can keep the volume steady rather than sitting on the bench and then figure out if I can still go for a "just finish".  I've learned a few "slogans" this year that I was much better at following last year for IMCDA. 

1. Getting to the starting line is the hardest part and the main goal. 

2. Not to do prep races, particulary HIM, as it take too long to recover.  I did a HIM last year, but did it as a long training day and it worked great for that.  I raced the HIM this year and didn't recover enough before getting back to full training and got injured is my assessment.

Good luck everyone, just a few more weeks, stay HEALTHY.

If you had no problems with the brace on, then I would wear it from this day forward.  You can test it after LP.  I think at this point you want to stay as pain free as possible and still be able to do all the training on your plan.  Even on that brick I had yesterday it was a 30 minute run, and just about every Wednesday I say to myself "I think I'm going to try it without the brace"  Then I think just put the brace on because you know it will help protect you so you don't get injured,  I want to be able to do the long run on Sunday.  So I put on the brace and off I go.  You still have time to heal and also to train, so put on the brace and keep on going.

I remember reading that thread from two years ago while I was following your journey last year.  It was definitely something that I remembered all this year while training.  Being this is my first time, my main goal has always been to get to the starting line healthy.   It's one of the reasons why I decided to go with RPE instead of all the other methods.  Sure I probably could have been more efficient with my training (did more of those things that you speed up and then slow down... ummm can't remember what they are called  ), but I just kept going back to what you went through and I said to myself I don't want that to happen to me on my first attempt.  (I can only imagine what you had to go through and having to wait a whole 365 days to attempt it again).  I have to say that even though that was a hard time in your life if I hadn't read it following you last year then I probably would have been trying to go "Gang Buster" on every training day and I can guarantee I would have gotten injured because of that.  So I appreciate everything you have written on this board and know that I have been listening... Well except for that get out on the road with my bike earlier in the year message, but other than that I have listened to everything you have said

You guys are talking my language now! I love talking training so I'll throw in my 2 cents . 

First, I think interval training is an important part of of any training program, but the meat and potatoes needs to be lower intensity training. So to answer the age old question of whether you need volume or intensity...the answer is you need both. Of course, the devil is in the details, and the mix of intensity, frequency, and duration of training sessions is where the "art" of training lies.

Dream Chaser, Z4 and Z5 (typically associated with threshold and VO2max, respectively) actually are predominantly AEROBIC. You'll use up your anaerobic capacity at the beginning of those intervals, but after that, it's all good aerobic work. Here's none other than noted exercise physiologist Dr. Andrew Coggan on anaerobic work:

Source: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx

If you're doing intervals longer than 2 minutes or so, they're gonna be mostly aerobic, which is a good thing because this is an aerobic sport!

Regarding rmiller's question about interval training being the best bang for your buck, it probably is, and if you were only doing sprints you could probably get away with only interval training. For Ironman, you also need to be able to actually do the duration of the event, and that's no easy task in and of itself because you're moving your body for 8-17 hrs. Dream Chaser is right, for Ironman Z2 aerobic training is your best friend.

The best, free scientific paper I've found regarding the mix of training intensity, duration, and frequency is this: http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm. It's long, but if you're interested in this stuff, it's a great read. For those not interested in reading the entire paper, this sentence from the abstract sums it up:

I guess the question, then, it what is appropriate training volume?  I would imagine most anybody doing their first IM has gone through some sort of plan of approach.  And by that I mean: not starting from zero six months out, but instead plotting 4-5 years out, starting with something like a half marathon, a few sprint and olympics, a HIM or two, a marathon or two, and a couple centuries - with those last three items naturally being in the 12-14 months before the big event.  Sure, there are injuries along the way as one learns how/when/where they are able to push themselves.

I'm asking honestly here - is that not necessarily the case?  Because I can't imagine going from zero or nearly zero to full IM in anything less than like.. two years at the minimum.  And by zero I mean basically couch potato.. But if people do that, than I rescind my previous questioning and fully agree with the idea of doing most work @ aerobic intensity, as one is still building their engine at that point.