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2008-09-24 11:27 AM
in reply to: #1692336

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
rexcoltrain - 2008-09-24 12:45 AM

I was in your same spot not long ago and for me, it all came down to breathing.  I wasn't exhaling correctly underwater, which causes all sorts of problems.  This post helped tremendously as well...

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=117554&start=1

Print it and read it everyday for a week or two.

x1000

That post by Big Fuzzy Doug was my transition point from struggling with 1 pool length back in June to swimming 1/2 mile nonstop with no problems.  I discovered the Total Immersion (TI) method, read the TI book Triathlon Swimming Made Easy, watched TI DVDs, and just finished a set of private lessons with a TI instructor, and spent 3 sessions a week in the pool.

Swimming is now fun, and I look forward to a lifetime of improvement.



2008-09-24 2:24 PM
in reply to: #1692897

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!

sylvain - 2008-09-24 7:56 AM I did my first triathlon(sprint) this year and the swim killed me.Now 2 months later with determination and proper form, I'm swiming  full ironman distances in 1h20min non stop. just keep doing it ,  learn from your mistakes and everything should fall in place.

Struggling to swim 750 meters and then 2 months later swimming 2.4 miles in 1 hour and 20 minutes? Two comments. First: I need to see your blood work :-).  Second you should write an article and see if they will publish it on this website. A terrific success story.

2008-09-24 2:31 PM
in reply to: #1692998

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!

Baowolf - 2008-09-24 8:23 AM I'll second the Total Immersion. I struggled with 50 yards freestyle in June, took a 2 day course and swam 2.6 miles last week no problem (with a lot of practice over the past 3 months).  

 I must have been dimwitted growing up. I t took me a lot longer to learn to swim 2.6 miles non-stop. A 2 day course and 3 months of practice? These kind of stories blow me away. I think a career as a swim coach for triathletes is a dead end for those considering it. I think it's time to make the swim harder. How about throwing in some sharks? It takes more than a 2 day clinic and 3 months of practice to swim 2.6 miles in shark infested waters, although you may never live long enough to get the full 3 months of training in.

 

2008-09-24 2:35 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!

As everyone else mentioned, just stick with it.  When I started to swim in Dec. of '05 to prepare myself for a June HIM I could barely do consistant laps without getting winded.  I was not at all comfortable in the water.

The next summer I finished my HIM swim (it was ugly, but I finished) and have only gotten more confident since.

Today I set a 1,000 yard TT personal record in a time that when I started 2-3/4 years ago I would never have thought possible from me.

2008-09-24 2:35 PM
in reply to: #1693204

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
sesh - 2008-09-24 12:25 PM
Dream Chaser - 2008-09-24 10:36 AM
sesh - 2008-09-23 11:55 PM

Lessons

I just read your "introduce yourself" post.  You ran a marathon, so two laps in the pool should not require a break.  There has to be a serious flaw in your stroke to be holding you to 50 yards at a time.  I'd be willing to bet that after just a lesson or two you would be good to go and swimming large chunks of yards at a time.

It's either that or you just need to slow down.

I ran a 3:34 at NYC marathon, jumped into the pool a month later - for the very first time - and I could barely squeak out 50m without having to stop, red-faced and panting, and that was at a slow speed.  It took me three solid months of swimming twice a week before I could bang out 400 meters straight. 

Swimming is an ENTIRELY different animal than biking and running.  You have to develop technique and you have to develop your "swim lungs".   

Check out these two awesome videos by Dave Scott.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SVfLvO5Z0M&NR=1

 

 

and it wasn't because you weren't "fit enough" to swim more than 50 yds.  It's because your form and technique was so bad that you were probably doing the equivalent of a 50 yard sprint in the pool.

If you can't do two laps, the answer is lessons.  If you are struggling to finish a half mile, mile, etc... the answer is more time in the pool.

Actually I believe I was not "fit enough".  When you run you can get as much oxygen as you want.  When you swim, the amount of oxygen you can get is limited.  I had to train my lungs and body to operate differently and utilize the amount of oxygen intake differently.  Apparently once you develop this "swim fitness" it doesn't leave you as people who have not swam in many years can return to swimming.  I am guessing the body learns and it never forgets, and the "swim fitness" returns rather quickly.  So running fitness and swim fitness are entirely independent of one another.  Whereas I was fit enough to run 26.2 straigt miles at an 8:04 pace, I was not fit enough to swim further than 50 yards without stopping each time. 

2008-09-24 2:41 PM
in reply to: #1692293

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
Jake1008 - 2008-09-23 10:48 PM

Swim fitness is weird because any other fitness you have (run, bike, etc) doesn't really translate. The good news is it improves quickly.

x2... I had the same fantasy that my running endurance and body building would easily translate to fast swim times. Boy, was I wrong.



2008-09-24 2:49 PM
in reply to: #1693818

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!

When you run you can get as much oxygen as you want.  When you swim, the amount of oxygen you can get is limited.

With good form and technique, this is not an issue.  You can inhale the same amount of air when taking a breath while swimming that you do while inhaling on the run.  The reason it seems like "swim fitness" sticks with you, even if you lay out for a while is because you still remember how to swim, and thus, you can still swim longer. 

I just can't stress enough how important a lesson or two is two brand new swimmers.  It will knock down a major wall.  These swimming breakthroughs that people get are not because they have gained some sort of aquatic fitness, it's because their form has now allowed them to use the fitness they already have.

2008-09-24 2:57 PM
in reply to: #1693867

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
sesh - 2008-09-24 2:49 PM

When you run you can get as much oxygen as you want.  When you swim, the amount of oxygen you can get is limited.

With good form and technique, this is not an issue.  You can inhale the same amount of air when taking a breath while swimming that you do while inhaling on the run.


x2. I actually take breaths more often when I swim than when I run.
2008-09-24 2:59 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
I have found that the breathing discipline I learned in swimming helped me in my other 2 disciplines.
2008-09-24 3:12 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
I breathe a helluva lot more when I run as opposed to when I swim.  Guessing 3X more.  I think for me it was more a function of getting used to not breathing as much, especially since I breathe bilaterally.  I'm certain my form needs work, but I know (for me) it was a function of breathing and my body learning to function on less air.  And of course I could be 100% wrong.    
2008-09-24 6:53 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
I'm generally a good swimmer. And race hard. I breathe bilaterally. I breathe to one side for a while and then I breathe to the other for while. I have even been known to cheat and take a breathe on both sides if I take a gulp of water when swimming hard. However, I do favor my right side. The only time I breathe bilaterally every third stroke is the first 100 yds/meters. It helps me settle into my stroke. I picked this up years ago when racing in the pool.


2008-09-24 10:53 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
Swimming is tough? Ha! It's wayyyyy beyond tough. One of the hardest things I ever tried to do, I almost gave up a few times and I was on the verge of tears a few times too.

This time last year, I was swimming 25s (25 yards, 2 min break, repeat). Just horrible. Yesterday I swam 3/4 in San Francisco Bay. I used to go down there and watch them swim with envy in my heart, now I'm out there doing it with them.

Another vote for TI here. It works.

2008-09-24 11:01 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!

If you plug away at the swimming you will improve.  Never fear just work hard.

For me... it is the running.  eek.

2008-09-26 1:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
UPDATE: on Wednesday i decided to swim 100 yds (4 laps) and did so. i was so proud of myself. that same day i met a guy the swims laps on a regular basis and he gave me really good tips on technique and some things i was doing wrong. the rest of that workout consisted of me being focused on nothing other then getting my technique right.  so today i went back and put it to use...i did 200 yds nonstop. i was exhausted afterward but thats pretty good progress in a couple of days. thanx to everyone for their advice and references.....i will keep working at it.
2008-09-26 6:18 PM
in reply to: #1692136

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Subject: RE: Swimming is tough!
It will come in time. Trust me, trust me, trust me. Persistence and patience. Took me about nine months to break the 25 yard barrier. I know people say you must work on form to get the breathing. But I believe you have to get the breathing out of the way so you can concentrate on form. I did hire an instructor who kept telling me to reach! reach! with my arms. Now I finally figured out what he meant and can now work on it since I don't have to worry about breathing. I am now also able to work on flip turns, which was very low priorty for me, though my flip turn technique can probably cause much snickers and giggles.
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