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  2009-09-15 12:26 PM in reply to: #2407255 |
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| 2009-09-15 12:32 PM in reply to: #2407480 |
Veteran 667   | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 12:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. I guess it's just kind of icky that a parent encourage their kid that getting mad at his sibling is an acceptable method of pushing himself to achieve more? I had coaches in High School that did similar things, so it's not unheard of I guess. I just think its strange to see a parent do it. I know anger occasionally fuels me to push myself, but I get angry with myself. In regards to tri activities, since that's this forum, I know there have been time where I've pushed myself, hit a point and started getting really angry at myself because I wanted to give up. Anger can help me keep going. I think anger, by itself, can be a very useful device. However, I also think that if you're letting your anger at someone else push you, then what you're really do is kind of making it someone else's responsibility to motivate you. I don't know if that makes sense. Basically, I'd rather not feel like my performance in a given event was born from my desire to defeat someone instead of my desire to achieve something for myself. That's probably why a few people have expressed surprised that a parent would encourage their child by fostering negative emotions towards their brother as a way to push them. That said, the parent isn't even here to defend herself, so it's not exactly fair to condemn her, now is it? So I'll leave it at that. Edited by Johners 2009-09-15 12:34 PM |
| 2009-09-15 1:03 PM in reply to: #2407521 |
Veteran 458 Minnesota | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" I see it as fueling negative feelings to the brother, and really don't see anything good of coming from it. Sibling rivalry can can be an issue in families and this seems like it would only add or create a problem. There is a saying that goes something like Watch your thoughts, they become your words Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch your actions, they become your habits Watch your habits, the become your character. IF this kind of thing becomes a part of the training plan, It won't ned well. As a former basketball and football coach I know that anger can sometimes provide motivation, but it usually not the best option. I can't imagine using that tactic on my 3 or 6 year old, or any of the K-4th grade students I teach. Edited by TriJedi 2009-09-15 1:13 PM |
| 2009-09-15 1:34 PM in reply to: #2407480 |
Pro 6767  the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. |
| 2009-09-15 1:39 PM in reply to: #2406872 |
| Veteran 278 | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" cusetri - 2009-09-15 9:41 AM tri_d00d - 2009-09-15 8:34 AM So, I got to the pool today and a mother and child that I see every once in a while were there. I know it's his mother b/c he calls her "Mom". She is giving the child lessons (he's probably 8-10 yo). She pushes him hard. I was kind of disturbed at how hard she rides him... Well, at one point, during a 100m effort, she told him, "Get mad at your brother! Push it, push it, get mad!" I was disgusted. A mother telling her son this? Then, as I was swimming by him, she yelled for him to not let me pass. I slowed down enough to let him beat me, but glanced at her and she had a smirk on her face. I thought to myself that she needed to chill. That is not the way to train anyone, especially a child. In my opinion, you're setting that child up for failure. Anyone experience anything similar to this? At what age is is acceptable to push and teach your child to reach beyond their limits? 13? 15? 16? 18--wait, there out of the house at 18...too late. I think it depends on what your kids want. If they don't want to be pushed, you are not going to accomplish anything by pushing them. You have to figure out how to motivate them in a good way. |
| 2009-09-15 2:09 PM in reply to: #2406711 |
| Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" I think many of us as well as people in general have parental issues steming from being pushed too hard or the wrong way. What ever happened to let him figure it out forhimself? He wants to do a tri, encourage him, if he fails and wants to get better thats fantastic, you learn more from failure than success. Maybe let him work out with you, since your workouts will be longer he might be more encouraged to keep going to be like you. Let him ask for help dont impose it on him. |
| 2009-09-15 2:30 PM in reply to: #2407684 |
| Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. |
| 2009-09-15 2:42 PM in reply to: #2407824 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:30 PM gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. This pat answer, different things work for different people, could be given to just about any question that people throw out on this board... what kind of training methods work, should I use a bucket in transition, how to lose weight, should a kid use anger at his sibling to get faster, on and on and on.... Obviously different things work for different people. We could give this answer to any question that people ask and that would be the end of the discussion. So should we all just stop discussing it, because we've not been provided with every relevant detail of the situation? In general, though, it's probably not a good thing to encourage an 8-year old or whatever, to use anger towards a sibling as a way to perform better. |
| 2009-09-15 2:49 PM in reply to: #2407865 |
| Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" newleaf - 2009-09-15 3:42 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:30 PM gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. This pat answer, different things work for different people, could be given to just about any question that people throw out on this board... what kind of training methods work, should I use a bucket in transition, how to lose weight, should a kid use anger at his sibling to get faster, on and on and on.... Obviously different things work for different people. We could give this answer to any question that people ask and that would be the end of the discussion. So should we all just stop discussing it, because we've not been provided with every relevant detail of the situation? In general, though, it's probably not a good thing to encourage an 8-year old or whatever, to use anger towards a sibling as a way to perform better. I see a difference between encouraging the kid to get mad at his brother and encouraging him to use existing feelings as a motivational tool. The mom is reported as saying "get mad at your brother" which to me is much different than saying something like "if you're mad at your brother use it." Then there's the concept of using training as a way to vent some of those negative feelings. |
| 2009-09-15 2:53 PM in reply to: #2407865 |
| Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" newleaf - 2009-09-15 2:42 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:30 PM gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. This pat answer, different things work for different people, could be given to just about any question that people throw out on this board... what kind of training methods work, should I use a bucket in transition, how to lose weight, should a kid use anger at his sibling to get faster, on and on and on.... Obviously different things work for different people. We could give this answer to any question that people ask and that would be the end of the discussion. So should we all just stop discussing it, because we've not been provided with every relevant detail of the situation? In general, though, it's probably not a good thing to encourage an 8-year old or whatever, to use anger towards a sibling as a way to perform better. I didn't say we should stop discussing it. But I can't tell you how many threads I've read here where someone tells another that they're doing it wrong just because it's different than what they've done. So yeah I guess I feel the need to point that out because some people really don't believe, or it apparently hasn't crossed their minds, that there are different methods to doing things. But in general I do think at first glance it's an odd motivational method. I'm not disagreeing with that. But I'm also not going to jump to conclusions.
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| 2009-09-15 2:57 PM in reply to: #2407480 |
| Veteran 458 Minnesota | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 12:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. I think there is a difference between being mad at someone and using that during a workout and manufacturing anger. If your boss ticks you off at work, you use that during a work out, and move on, it is a good thing. But, if you keep going back to the time when your boss ticked you off at work, then you are aren't really moving foward. If this is a repetative behavior, the kid isn't going to leave it in the pool or on the road, he is going to take it home. |
| 2009-09-15 2:59 PM in reply to: #2407886 |
| Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:53 PM newleaf - 2009-09-15 2:42 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:30 PM gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. This pat answer, different things work for different people, could be given to just about any question that people throw out on this board... what kind of training methods work, should I use a bucket in transition, how to lose weight, should a kid use anger at his sibling to get faster, on and on and on.... Obviously different things work for different people. We could give this answer to any question that people ask and that would be the end of the discussion. So should we all just stop discussing it, because we've not been provided with every relevant detail of the situation? In general, though, it's probably not a good thing to encourage an 8-year old or whatever, to use anger towards a sibling as a way to perform better. I didn't say we should stop discussing it. But I can't tell you how many threads I've read here where someone tells another that they're doing it wrong just because it's different than what they've done. So yeah I guess I feel the need to point that out because some people really don't believe, or it apparently hasn't crossed their minds, that there are different methods to doing things. But in general I do think at first glance it's an odd motivational method. I'm not disagreeing with that. But I'm also not going to jump to conclusions. Yeah... fair enough. |
| 2009-09-15 3:12 PM in reply to: #2407894 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" TriJedi - 2009-09-15 3:57 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 12:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? I think there is a difference between being mad at someone and using that during a workout and manufacturing anger. If your boss ticks you off at work, you use that during a work out, and move on, it is a good thing. But, if you keep going back to the time when your boss ticked you off at work, then you are aren't really moving foward. If this is a repetative behavior, the kid isn't going to leave it in the pool or on the road, he is going to take it home. How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. And, you're right, there might be a number of reasons but i think the startling difference is that we're talking about motivation for a child. What's appropriate coaching for an adult is different than for a child. I think many of us are sensitive to the fact that kids often get pushed by their parents in ways where they don't really understand the impact on them phyically and mentally until later in life. Then the whole using your brother thing makes me cringe. Frankly, your family is supposed to be your safe place. Sure, even as an adult now my sisters annoy me but home and my relationships with family were not fostered to be competitive or adversarial. This mom is recognizing and using bro (and probably encouraging thinking about and holding on to mis-deeds done by bro) sets up some strange family dynamics. Personally, i think better in this case to picture yourself in competition and working hard to win .... which brings me back to the being a kid. Sport teaches so much more than competition - you can learn about teamwork, leadership, friendship, rivalry, hardwork and practice ... where it's not always about winning as many have stated above. But then again we don't know what the case is and clearly I am idealizing .... |
| 2009-09-15 3:43 PM in reply to: #2407255 |
| Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" turtlegirl - 2009-09-15 12:01 PM PE teacher here...this is the number one reason why kids quit competitive sports after high school. Its so sad to watch parents suck the joy out of a child has when they love a sport and demonstrates ability then pushes them too hard. They get sick of the sport and stop once their junior career has ended. Thank god for the popularity of adult rec leagues. It is appalling the number of leagues some parents have kids in...not to mention kids doing curve balls at a young age and swimmers getting shoulder surgeries by 14... oy. I only wish they knew how truly RARE it is to get a college scholarship. Why not teach them to love a sport forever rather than destroy their joy in playing in? too true. I went to high school with a girl who was a natural at sports... whatever she played -- she just picked it up and excelled at it (field hockey, swimming, lacrosse). her dad was at all of her games and many of her practices... and totally coached from the bleachers/ yelled at her. She actually DID get a scholarship to play lax at a D2 school, and turned it down b/c she was burned out by then. I always, always question the motives of parents who "just want their children to be competitive." Whose dream is it? |
| 2009-09-15 4:03 PM in reply to: #2407824 |
| Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" lisac957 - 2009-09-15 3:30 PM gearboy - 2009-09-15 1:34 PM lisac957 - 2009-09-15 1:15 PM I'm not clear on why "get mad at your brother" is so terrible. I'm no psychologist, but maybe the kid got really motivated by this and pushed himself to get better. Why is that bad? How many times do you think of something when you're pushing it on the bike or run... something that really boils your blood and it makes you push harder? It could be your boss, a politician, your brother, your tri club buddy. Getting "mad" is a great way to relieve stress and presure and put it into something positive through exercise, IMO. Let it all out in the pool or on the road, and leave it there. If it works for the kid, I don't see an issue. Well, there are a lot of reasons this is a problem, but I'll start with this one - talk about setting up the kids to compete with one another for a parent's affection and "rank" within the family! Let's make a small change in the scenario: Dad (instead of mom) is "coaching" the kid. The kid has some occasional conflicts with mom (as do all kids), so dad decides to "help" him "channel" the anger: "C'mon, get mad at mom! Crush that b*tch! Use the anger!" Do you see any problems with this scenario? The real issue (obviously, I hope), is that you never want to have the parent basically endorsing aggression against a family member. In the "dad" scenario, most of us would see the dad as using the kid as a surrogate to act out his own issues against the mom. In the original "mom" situation, the mom is encouraging the kids to beat one another down to win her over. So now the kids have to constantly outpace one another to be first in the family, instead of being supportive. Also, most young kids (8-10 y.o., according to the OP) are NOT going to be good at separating the idea of "channeling" the anger into another activity, and simply "being angry". So if the siblings are competing head to head, and one loses, do you really want to have the kid being angry AND losing? Plus the whole "sore winner" vibe that came through the original post - nice social skill set to pass on to the kid. I understand all of that, but the reality is that we have no idea what their specific situation is. For all we know, it could have been an inside joke between mom and son. Or the kid's shrink could have advised mom to use this as a tactic to channel excess anger. Or the mom could just be doing the wrong thing. We've all read waaaaaay too much into this with zero information. My main point was that different motivational tactics work in different ways for each person. Well, maybe I misread the OP, but the mom also wanted to have the kid pass a stranger, then smirked when he did so. And while I am not saying that all shrinks are good, one who encourages anger in kids is not really very good. Especially since I can't recall when in the last 15-20 years I've been referred a kid who is not angry enough, but plenty who are too angry! Telling angry kids to hang on to the anger does not usually work out well. |
| 2009-09-15 4:16 PM in reply to: #2407156 |
| Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" jmk-brooklyn - 2009-09-15 11:28 AM I’m struggling with this question a little too. I’m curious what peoples’ opinions are. My son, who’s 5, really wants to do this kids triathlon next June (It was his idea, not mine. He asked me if there were tris for kids and the race I’m doing happens to have one.) But he’s going to have to work a little between now and then to get there. He’s just learning to ride without training wheels, and he can only swim about half the distance without stopping that he’ll need to swim in the race. I don’t expect that he’ll win, and I genuinely don’t care. What I’m struggling with a little is that I want him to understand that if this is something that he wants, he needs to work for it and, on race day, that he needs to put forth some effort and not just quit halfway through the swim because it’s hard. I’m not sure how to do that without “pushing” him or making this more intense than it needs to be. Suggestions? First off, I think that it's cool because you have obviously already inspired your son. My son has tried soccer and basketball, he really has not really become too engaged in those sports. He has gone to the pool with me every time I have offered to take him and he has asked about swimming to the point where I have shown him tips that I learned. Last night he swam his first lap and I was really blown away because I just offered suggestions but I don't feel like I have "coached" or "pushed" him. He has asked several times about kids tris so I offered to help him do one next year. I think the great thing about kids tris is that the kids don't have to come in first. Just by doing they are establishing great habits and becoming a lot more healthy than a lot of kids these days. My only suggestion / thought is to use yourself as an example. When you go out, are you trying to compete against others or are you trying to improve on your previous bests? I'm thinking that a "beat yourself" mindset is a great mentality because there is no way to blame anyone but yourself if you don't beat yourself. |
| 2009-09-15 4:35 PM in reply to: #2408005 |
| Extreme Veteran 787 The Woodlands/Magnolia, TX. | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" trishie - 2009-09-15 3:43 PM turtlegirl - 2009-09-15 12:01 PM not to mention kids doing curve balls at a young age and swimmers getting shoulder surgeries by 14... oy. QUOTE] |
| 2009-09-15 4:43 PM in reply to: #2406711 |
| Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" I did a tri this past weekend. In the wave ahead of me there was a mother/daughter team. The Mom was in great shape and I'd guess her to be close to 50, the daughter was 11-13. I passed them on the bike and when I did I remarked to the girl that she was doing a great job and the Mom said "yes she is" Great, sounds good. On the run the girl passes me and the Mom is not far behind. The Mom would stop to walk but I believe this was to stay with the girl rather than pass her. The Mom would yell "Keep running Jenny, don't you stop" At first I thought this was pretty cool. But then realized the Mom really was screaming at this girl. Shortly after they passed I heard the Mom scream "Jenny, you HAVE to pass 4 more people before you reach the finish line. No excuses, if you don't pass at least 4 people then there's no reason to be here!" I never heard the daughter say anything. At the awards ceremony I am pretty sure the girl won as it was a small race and I think only one other teenage girl. The Mom was still pretty hyped up and the girl was just slumped over in her seat. I can only hope the girl enjoyed the race and her Mom didn't suck all the fun out of it. |
| 2009-09-16 1:35 AM in reply to: #2406711 |
| Master 2665 The Whites, New Hampshire | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" When I stepped into a parenting role, I very quickly learned to never, EVER judge what I hear a parent say to their kid. I've heard a lot of strange and disturbing things that got me all riled, but now that I've done some parenting, I've said strange and disturbing things that probably sounded truly awful, but were a continuation of a previous incident, conversation, etc. The kid knew what I meant, and that's what mattered. What I mean is, do we even know this kid HAS a brother? It could be a saying they've come up with from somewhere. It could be an inside joke, as someone else pointed out. I know my friends and I pick up jokes that probably sound really strange to others. That said, the rest of her tactics, as described by the OP, sound awful. I hope the lifeguard kicks her out. And I seriously hope she isn't actually fueling sibling rivalry, because whether the KID leaves it in the pool or not, the mother almost certainly does not. |
| 2009-09-16 4:57 AM in reply to: #2407156 |
| Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" jmk-brooklyn - 2009-09-15 11:28 AM I’m struggling with this question a little too. I’m curious what peoples’ opinions are. My son, who’s 5, really wants to do this kids triathlon next June (It was his idea, not mine. He asked me if there were tris for kids and the race I’m doing happens to have one.) But he’s going to have to work a little between now and then to get there. He’s just learning to ride without training wheels, and he can only swim about half the distance without stopping that he’ll need to swim in the race. I don’t expect that he’ll win, and I genuinely don’t care. What I’m struggling with a little is that I want him to understand that if this is something that he wants, he needs to work for it and, on race day, that he needs to put forth some effort and not just quit halfway through the swim because it’s hard. I’m not sure how to do that without “pushing” him or making this more intense than it needs to be. Suggestions? My six year old just finished her first tri. She really wanted to do it, but I worried it had a lot to do with what she hears her mom and I talking about at dinner and wanted to be part of it. I decided the key was to not let her think to much about training and make the training just part of her normal day. She was on a swim team this summer and that took care of the swimming. She ran some, but it was a chore so I never pushed it. The biking was easy. All kids love to go and ride their bike. We went to the local greenway and she would bike while I chased her with her little sister in a jogging stroller. I had a plan in my head for what we would do on each work out, but I never told her. We started at 2 miles and she quickly moved up to 8 miles with no trouble. She did great at the race and had a blast. I do wonder what other parents thought when they saw the way I acted at the race. I ran the bike and run with her and yelled all sorts of crazy stuff at her like "suck it up buttercup" and "if it was easy everyone would be doing it." Why? That's what she yells at me when I'm racing! I also told her how amazing she was and to make sure she was smiling like Chrissy Wellington. She ate it up and loved the humor and attention, but I'm sure some folks thought I was some crazy over bearing father. |
| 2009-09-16 7:36 AM in reply to: #2408133 |
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| 2009-09-17 12:18 AM in reply to: #2408972 |
| Master 2665 The Whites, New Hampshire | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" brown_dog_us - 2009-09-16 5:57 AM I do wonder what other parents thought when they saw the way I acted at the race. I ran the bike and run with her and yelled all sorts of crazy stuff at her like "suck it up buttercup" and "if it was easy everyone would be doing it." Why? That's what she yells at me when I'm racing! I also told her how amazing she was and to make sure she was smiling like Chrissy Wellington. She ate it up and loved the humor and attention, but I'm sure some folks thought I was some crazy over bearing father. See? This is exactly what I mean. You are right, there is probably a thread out there somewhere about this horrible father screaming at his daughter how dare he he should be kicked out!! And yet, it meant something to the two of you, and was different than what it sounded. BTW, I like how you went about training - have a general idea, but let it develop on its own. 8 miles, though, yikes! |
| 2009-09-17 6:39 AM in reply to: #2410934 |
| Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" Slugger - 2009-09-17 1:18 AM brown_dog_us - 2009-09-16 5:57 AM I do wonder what other parents thought when they saw the way I acted at the race. I ran the bike and run with her and yelled all sorts of crazy stuff at her like "suck it up buttercup" and "if it was easy everyone would be doing it." Why? That's what she yells at me when I'm racing! I also told her how amazing she was and to make sure she was smiling like Chrissy Wellington. She ate it up and loved the humor and attention, but I'm sure some folks thought I was some crazy over bearing father. See? This is exactly what I mean. You are right, there is probably a thread out there somewhere about this horrible father screaming at his daughter how dare he he should be kicked out!! And yet, it meant something to the two of you, and was different than what it sounded. BTW, I like how you went about training - have a general idea, but let it develop on its own. 8 miles, though, yikes! Re-read the OP again. She wasn't just telling her son to get mad at his brother (which I still have issues with) - she was also telling him to beat a total stranger in the pool, and then smirked when he did (with an assist from the OP). Brown_dog was just shouting things at his daughter, not telling her to crush others (a nice path to poor sportsmanship, IMHO), and if taken at face value, not smirking at others when she would pass them. |
| 2009-09-17 10:48 AM in reply to: #2406711 |
| Regular 853 | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" Back to the parental behavior while pushing kids-My daughter used to take gymnastics. Where we live she could only go one day per week, and she wanted to go more. I started taking her to a place just across the state line into Kentucky. At this place the instructors allowed parents to watch. The other place we went to did not. Anyway, I would stay and read magazines and occasionally glance up and watch her. This other mother was so intense. She would glare at her daughter with her teeth together and her jaw set. She did not talk to the other mothers. At one point she stood up and yelled to her child "If you can't land that back hand spring tonight, you can forget getting ice cream or hanging with your friends." This little girl looked miserable. In this part of Kentucky when girls over the age of 8 try out for cheer leading they have to have their back handspring, and this mother had been a cheer leader and gosh darn it, her little girl was going to be too. jami |
| 2009-09-17 11:12 AM in reply to: #2406711 |
| Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: "Get mad at your brother" I coach kids x-country in the Fall and track in the Spring for my running club (along with about a dozen other parents from the club). We have over 200 kids that participate in the program each season. It is immediately apparent which kids actually want to be there versus the ones who are there because their parents wanted them to be involved. The majority of the time it is possible to structure the workouts so that the ones who are there for their parents learn to enjoy the sport and look forward to coming back. That doesn't always happen though. Luckily the parents tend to stay on the fringe while we workout and we do not allow them to run simultaneously on the track when we're using it. So we do not get a lot of the parenting-coaching going on. But every now and then you can overhear a parent who feels they know more about running that the coaches on the team giving a kid bad information and reprimanding them about their performance. They are not your child, so you can only offer them coaching while they are under your supervision and hope they take what you have put out to heart. |
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