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Should Macca have finished the race?
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yes
no
don't care
Who am I to say, it's his call.
Yes, but only because he is the defending champion
This is a multiple choice poll.

2008-10-13 12:20 AM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
If I were in his shoes, I would not have quit based on the facts that I have, however I am not him!

Reminds me of Don Bebe in the Superbowl for the Bills against the Cowboys in the 90's. They were getting their arse handed to them by the Cowboys but that guy didn't stop trying because he couldn't win. We all hear the talks and quotes by the greats in their particular sports about fighting to the end, never quitting, and maintaining a can-do attitude regardless of the circumstances.

We like hero stories, he soldier with one leg that wants to get a prosthetic and rejoin his squad in battle, the quarterback that gets back in the game with a mild concussion and broken thumb, the cyclist that finishes the race on some else's wheel in the Tour of California(though the hero of that one wasn't the cyclist IMO), Macca could have been that guy, but he chose not to.

I like to see the pros hang it all out there and live, and die, metaphorically of course, by playing the game to the fullest extent of their abilities.

But then again, they are his sponsors, and is his race and "job". Thus far in his long career he has done well by going wtih his gut feeling and instinct, why stop now?

I wish him the best of luck, he will be atop the podium soon I am sure!


2008-10-13 1:00 AM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

No - he didnt race Kona for the experience, he didnt race Kona to prove to himself or others he could finish - he has already done that... he raced to try to win.(and he has already proven he can do that too)

When it became apparent that wasnt that case he decided NOT to but his body under the enormous strain that Ironman racing can cause in order to preserve his long term career which is racing Ironman... cutting his losses in this event for long term gains in the future... thats one less Ironman beat up on his body this year, perhaps it will make a difference further down the track in the form of success. 

Only time will tell - but in the context of his career deciding to pull the plug seems like the smart decision.

2008-10-13 6:30 AM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

I think he should have finished.  Here's my somewhat selfish reason.  Triathlon is not like other mainstream sports.  Whereas football, baseball, etc are supported financially by spectators, huge TV deals, etc, triathlon is not.  Triathlon is completely supported by age group athletes participating in the sport; paying money for race entries, buying equipment, buying coaching, etc.  Like the announcers on Saturday said, the AG'ers are the 'heart and soul' (and money) of triathlon.  The professionals in this sport owe their livelyhood to AG'ers.  So, as an AG'er, I expect the pro triathletes to soldier on in the face of obstacles...just like the AG'ers.  He needs to show some respect for the sport and the AG'ers who make his livelyhood possible.

The only reson he should have quit is a medical reason.

Another thing.  What about the pro that finished say 20th.  Should he have quit when it was apparent he wasn't in the money?  How about the guy that got off the bike 20 minutes down and knew he had absolutely no chance of catching Alexander, Beke, etc.?  Should he have quit?  I guess those not in the top 10 at T2 should just quit? 

2008-10-13 6:57 AM
in reply to: #1737655

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
Doughboy - 2008-10-12 9:56 PM
Had he continued on, he would not have gotten any additional TV time of consequense, so I say drop out.


Oh, I think he would have for sure. The defending champion trying to battle back after a mechanical failure could easily have created a great side story, especially once it's edited up for NBC broadcast. Also, look at the huge amount of positive percepetion Natasha Badmann received for crashing her bike and then trying to carry on. VERY well covered by the media, very good for her reputation and that of her sponsors.
2008-10-13 7:00 AM
in reply to: #1737791

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
Don't forget, he had been waiting like 10 minutes by the time the tech van was able to make it to him so it would have been like a 30 minute delay.
2008-10-13 7:01 AM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

"You can quit and they won't care...." so why do we care? I think it's because the word QUIT is one of the most offensive words in a triathletes vocabulary and when the champion does it we are all offended on some level. I always admire the pros who gut it out and pay respect to the rest of us less genetically gifted and finish the dam thing. I guess never having having won an IM I may not understand their thoughts.My goal is to always finish what I start and that includes the IM.  It is a business to them after all, we just don't live it like that. So I guess my vote is, he should have finished. ( Alexander is  a much classier champion anyway).



2008-10-13 8:26 AM
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2008-10-13 8:44 AM
in reply to: #1738011

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

JeepFleeb - 2008-10-13 8:26 AM
DaveH - 2008-10-12 10:47 PM
If this is accurate why didn't he just manually put it into the big ring and ride the rest of the way like that?

Because that's not how front derailleurs work.  If the cable snaped the spring in the derailler would have forced him into his small ring.  There's no manual adjustment.

He could have pulled out his trusty Park multitool and removed the front derailleur. 

2008-10-13 8:48 AM
in reply to: #1737475

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

bryancd - 2008-10-12 9:09 PM Although it is true that placing in the money is very important for a pro, so is the sponsorship dollars, which are validated not only by placing but by the coverage a pro receives while on the course. Sponsorship dollars pay for the majority of their yearly income. Macca wasn't injured and was prepared, so continuing on would have not been an immediate health concern and would have provided his sponsors with additional coverage as well as the media attention would have stayed on him to some degree. Even if he had finished 20th, they would have been a lot of buzz about his effort and a finish line interview with his sponsor logos on display. It's curious how the yes vote is leading this poll yet all the comments are from thoe that didn't care or said no.

I think that's a misconception about sponsorship obligations and I think you are speculating quite a bit. I've heard at least Macca, Alexander, Lessing on interviews and talked directly with others like Karen Smyers, Dede Griesbauer and Richie Cunningham about this. All have stated that while it is important to post good results (winning or a podium finish), it is not the most important thing for them (the sponsor) in particular since most coverage for races in our sport is so little and low quality and the number of people following the sport even among triathletes is rather small. You can ask around this site and others and many probably don’t know more than a few pros.

You could say that because it was the IM Champhionship the coverage is greater and it will be televised on NBC. Yes, but the coverage of the Pro race is not more than 30 min at best with just snippets of those leading the race and some info of other pros here and there without really showing the details of the race. And they followed it by a boring (to me) 1:30 hrs of AG stories facing adversity. They can’t even managed to show the Pro race cuz the format is boring and the market is rather small hence they have to make it appealing to the avg person.

For sponsors it is far more important for the athletes to do other things such as interviews, mingle/work at expos, advertisements, training camps, seminars, etc. That’s how the athletes can provide more exposure for the sponsors. If you look around in the sport you will find many pros that might have some good results (nothing impressive) yet they have better sponsorship deals than other pros who have posted better more impressive results. It is not as much results as it is about marketing yourself and most important helping your sponsor reaching their target market given the needs of our sport.

2008-10-13 12:16 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

 

I'm all for the idea of saving your body for another race to win, rather than continuing on in a losing effort and not being able to race as soon.  It's his job to win races.  I think I remember the winner of IMFL last year pulled out of Kona early due to some issue, so he then still had enough in him to head to FL a week later and win.  The move to IMFL was so unplanned that he had to get a new wetsuit right before the race.

2008-10-13 2:44 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
i'm fine with him quitting when he had no chance to podium, but there is no reason it should have cost him more than 10 minutes.

he definitely could have locked it into the big ring only by either tightening his limit screw (may not work), taking off the FD, or tying off the broken cable to the bike.

he didn't have to sit and wait for tech support either. he still could have maintained 25-30mph until they go to him depending on his gearing (i'm guessing he still had a 42x12).


2008-10-13 3:07 PM
in reply to: #1737857

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
zia_cyclist - 2008-10-13 6:30 AM

What about the pro that finished say 20th.  Should he have quit when it was apparent he wasn't in the money?  How about the guy that got off the bike 20 minutes down and knew he had absolutely no chance of catching Alexander, Beke, etc.?  Should he have quit?  I guess those not in the top 10 at T2 should just quit? 



Good, good, good, question. This is something I've been wondering myself. Going by the same philosophy that Macca did this year, why doesn't every pro not in the top 5 or 8 after T2 just stop? Or even at the halfway point on the run?
2008-10-13 3:13 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

I have zero experience racing an Ironman as a pro so I cannot really presume to say one way or the other what is/was in his (Or His Sponsor's) best interest.

I can say that I had a mechanical that almost knocked me out of my last Ironman. (Broken Deraileur) It took me 45 minutes to get it fixed and finish the race.

I have to say that I feel that crossing the finish line that day was made all that much sweeter (then it would have been otherwise) by the adversity I had to overcome.

A quote from my friend's blog that rang in my head that day that I chanted for the last 30 miles of the bike (Pedaling over hills on a single speed):

"Never F***ing Quit, No Matter What!!!!"

2008-10-13 6:13 PM
in reply to: #1739248

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
lisac957 - 2008-10-14 8:07 AM
zia_cyclist - 2008-10-13 6:30 AM What about the pro that finished say 20th.  Should he have quit when it was apparent he wasn't in the money?  How about the guy that got off the bike 20 minutes down and knew he had absolutely no chance of catching Alexander, Beke, etc.?  Should he have quit?  I guess those not in the top 10 at T2 should just quit? 

 

Good, good, good, question. This is something I've been wondering myself. Going by the same philosophy that Macca did this year, why doesn't every pro not in the top 5 or 8 after T2 just stop? Or even at the halfway point on the run?

Because a lot of the pros there are up and commers and need the experience of racing in Hawaii for the big one. Another year or 2 and it could be them in the top 10.

Gaining another place or 2 in this race is building the mental toughness that will one day make the difference between coming 1st and 2nd.

Sponsors would also have somethng to say if an epedemic of pull-outs started. Individuals might struggle to get/keep sponsors, and events would not be able to attract the same level of sponsorship. 

Gerrard

2008-10-13 6:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

It's wrong to pass judgment on Macca's decision to DNF.  He doesn't owe it to the age groupers to finish the race.

Matt Cazalas
Technical Writer

Network Cables

2008-10-13 6:54 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
Good thing Chrissie Wellington didn't make a similar decision!


2008-10-13 6:57 PM
in reply to: #1737505

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

jah2212 - 2008-10-12 9:16 PM yes. it's his job. he quit his job in the middle when he was perfectly capable of finishing just a little later than normal. we've all had to stay at our jobs a little longer when glitches occur. i am irritated by him quitting. i think he still should've finished. he was healthy and capable. just my opinion, but then again, that's what this is for. booo macca.

 i disagree--his job is not to finnish but to finnish and get some money.  He got out of the race to because overall it helps his "job" winnings, in the future

2008-10-13 7:02 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
I voted yes. I have not read all fo the thread- but from my viewpoint the dude should have finished! I don;t have to understand his perspective, it is not mine. I do not have to be anythign except me. and when I was watching it, I thought--

HE IS AT KONA!!! A PLACE WHERE 100's of 1000's dream of being and he dropped due to a 15 minute set back! wow! for him to finish the ride, let others ride next to him, run with him, even get passed by him, would be an honor for them.

to me it seemed he DIS'D the whole event with a tinch of attitude that sounded like this "oh waaaaah, if I can't win, I am just not even gunna play" booo hooo hooo

screw the money- what about some honor!

I'm glad soembody started this thread so I could get that out in the open.



that's just me.
FF
2008-10-13 7:04 PM
in reply to: #1739890

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
sbrstlouis - 2008-10-13 7:39 PM

It's wrong to pass judgment on Macca's decision to DNF.  He doesn't owe it to the age groupers to finish the race.

Matt Cazalas
Technical Writer

Network Cables



it is not ok for us to have an opinoin on what he did, but it is ok for YOU to have an opnion of our opinion!

LOL!!!

ok, I am done now.
2008-10-13 8:16 PM
in reply to: #1737878

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

bryancd - 2008-10-13 7:57 AM
Doughboy - 2008-10-12 9:56 PM Had he continued on, he would not have gotten any additional TV time of consequense, so I say drop out.
Oh, I think he would have for sure. The defending champion trying to battle back after a mechanical failure could easily have created a great side story, especially once it's edited up for NBC broadcast. Also, look at the huge amount of positive percepetion Natasha Badmann received for crashing her bike and then trying to carry on. VERY well covered by the media, very good for her reputation and that of her sponsors.

Oh exactly, just look at Natasha and at Rutger last year. They followed him all the way to the finish.

2008-10-13 8:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
zia_cyclist - 2008-10-13 6:30 AM

I think he should have finished.  Here's my somewhat selfish reason.  Triathlon is not like other mainstream sports.  Whereas football, baseball, etc are supported financially by spectators, huge TV deals, etc, triathlon is not.  Triathlon is completely supported by age group athletes participating in the sport; paying money for race entries, buying equipment, buying coaching, etc.  Like the announcers on Saturday said, the AG'ers are the 'heart and soul' (and money) of triathlon.  The professionals in this sport owe their livelyhood to AG'ers.  So, as an AG'er, I expect the pro triathletes to soldier on in the face of obstacles...just like the AG'ers.  He needs to show some respect for the sport and the AG'ers who make his livelyhood possible.

The only reson he should have quit is a medical reason.

Another thing.  What about the pro that finished say 20th.  Should he have quit when it was apparent he wasn't in the money?  How about the guy that got off the bike 20 minutes down and knew he had absolutely no chance of catching Alexander, Beke, etc.?  Should he have quit?  I guess those not in the top 10 at T2 should just quit? 

There are two types of Pros/elites: Pros are those who make a leaving exclusively from the sport and Triathlons are their full time job. These guys are usually the ones winning at big competitive events like Kona, IMs and 70.3s There are also elites, those who compete in triathlon part time (train as much as they possible can) but also have to work other job(s) to be able to get by. These guys usually win smaller less competitive events and place top 5-20 on competitive events and top 20-50 on championships or very competitive fields.

Elites usually are striving to become pros but given triathlons are such a small niche sport the industry and sponsors are not as big to support them all hence they have to struggle and live the dream between scrapping jobs and small cash prices and fitting in enough training to be competitive, hence they can only compete at the best of their abilities given their time available for training. For these guys a top 20-50 in Kona is a BIG deal as they can continue to progress towards the front. Pros on the other hand are the one who have a real chance at winning something like Kona or 70.3 championships and probably no more than 10 Pros fall within this category. These guys have no real benefit at finish 10 or lower, rather than just saving their bodies for the next race that can equate to the next paycheck.

Until recently just a handful of pros have been able to break through and have a comfortable leaving through sponsorships support. (Guys like Macca and Normann) These athletes already have a big resume and their accomplishments in the past speak for themselves, hence the exposure they provide via other venues besides race results are important for their sponsors. That's why many injured top Pros still show up and do interviews at events like Kona. 

The cash prices provided by races in general are a joke (in long distance races like IM and 70.3s) hence the most talented athletes remain at the ITU circuit until they become less competitive at which point they jump to long distance events. Those who are not good enough for ITU racing to begin with (or dislike the format) focus on IM/70.3 but the life an elite/pro can make from only cash prices won’t be that much even if you are that good to you win all races you enter. (i.e. races like Timberman or Cancun 70.3 has a 25K price total divided on male/female 12.5K each divided by top 5. The 1st place win 6K, how much he/she really makes after considering traveling expenses, training, eating, etc?)

That’s why IMO the notion that the AGers are the ‘heart and soul’ of the sport and suggest that the pros/elites are sort of like our employees and that they owes us anything is silly. Following that reasoning, when AGers don't train enough or drop out a race cuz the day was tough (too hot, cold, etc) should they then pony up and give some extra $$ to the pros for disrespecting the race? NO, cuz it is silly and one thing has nothing to do with the other. Finally, the cash prices are usually provided by sponsors and while sponsors indeed are targeting AGers to buy their products usually are the Pros who provide the exposure of that products hence the AGers buy them. (i.e. Kuota went from an unknown brand to become the 2nd brand with more bikes at Kona after Normann record bike split a few yeasr ago)



2008-10-14 4:41 AM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

I stopped using Pro-athletes as role models many years ago. Just shows the difference between someone who gets paid to do it, and all the AG'ers that pay to do it.

An athlete that quits because he isn't or can't win is a true loser. Just my opinion. 

2008-10-14 12:08 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?
Amiine,

do you think he should have finished the race?

great post as always.
2008-10-14 3:14 PM
in reply to: #1736837

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

Naw... the more folks that drop out of a given race, the better I look in the overall standings.  

  • me: "Whoo hoo-- second place!!"
  • someone else: "Yeah, but #3m through #9 all had mysterious flat tires in transiation and DNFed"
  • me:  "Whoo hoo -- second place!!"
2008-10-14 7:50 PM
in reply to: #1741559

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Subject: RE: Should Macca have finished the race?

flyinfree - 2008-10-14 12:08 PM Amiine, do you think he should have finished the race? great post as always.
I replied 'I don't care' for the poll. I also said on the watching thread that I will never have the same perspective Macca had at the time he made the choice to quit the race. He was obviously going for the win and anything less than that was probably a failure for him and I can only imagine how dissapointed he was for not been able to defend his title. Losing 10 min in the Men field is basically kissing the 1st place goodbye. (differnce between 1st and 2nd place was less than 4 min). Whether he made the right choice or not I don' know, I don't feel it is up to me to say and I wouldn't judge him based on that. He is one of the most accomplished Triathletes in the sport today and while I was pulling for him on Saturday I can understand why he made that choice.

BTW, Macca had 6 years in which he battled not to win but to finish the race and more than one ocassion he did pushed through and finished by walking. I think back in 2003 he completed the marathon on 4+ hrs.

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