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stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... (Page 3)
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... | Rss Feed  |
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  2009-09-04 7:32 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
 Subject: ...This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 7:38 AM in reply to: #2389034 |
Sneaky Slow 8694       Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... PennState - 2009-09-04 8:32 AM So when you see someone at a bar you always go up to them and tell them to stop drinking if *you* think they have had too much? This would somewhat equivalent...someone showing poor judgment, but not necessarily breaking the law? Really? Not really equivalent. More equivalent would be someone who had too much to drink, going to get in their car. Someone who is drunk isn't necessarily doing something that is a danger to themselves and others. Someone riding a bike without a helmet is doing something that is a danger to themselves. I probably wouldn't say anything to the guy without a helmet, but castigating the people who have said they would? Maybe they just don't want people to get hurt. Not sure why it is such an issue for some. |
| 2009-09-04 7:42 AM in reply to: #2388933 |
| Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... wgraves7582 - 2009-09-04 7:31 AM Daremo - 2009-09-03 4:01 PM Damn bunch of idiots .............. Funny how you don't see that now. Remember when seatbelts were not required? Remember when DUI's were barely ever enforced? Remember when we are much stupider nation (well maybe that is still true The reason the UCI changed the rules (and only in the last 6 or 7 years) is because of pressure from helmet manufacturers and the governing bodies of each of the countries where the racers come from. There are no amateur events that don't require them so they changed the rules for the pros. I did all of my papers in English 101 as a Freshmen on the subject of helmet laws and requiring them. I'm pretty well versed on the topic.  The vast majority of cycling crashes result in road rash and broken wrist/collarbones. Yes, people can get head injuries even with a helmet. I'd personally rather be dead from a head impact without a helmet than a living vegetable because of massive head trauma that was lessened by a formed piece of styrofoam. Let's not get into how bullsh-t the impact tests are for testing helmets. They are so arbitrary and full of crap and have very little to do with what would happen if you actually crashed and had a head impact. Sure, they do work most of the time and we've already heard many instances of that. And I am a proponent of them for everyone. It doesn't hurt anyone to WEAR one. But to judge someone else's actions .......... and yes, that is EXACTLY what people spouting about others being idiots for not wearing them are doing, there is no hiding behind that ......... is bogus. Edited by Daremo 2009-09-04 7:45 AM |
| 2009-09-04 7:43 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 7:46 AM in reply to: #2389066 |
| Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... PennState - 2009-09-04 8:43 AM While I usually agree with you Newleaf, here I disagree. Driving while drunk is against the law. Drinking to excess is not a crime (much like riding w/o a helmet) but certainly can lead to bad things. I am comparing bad judgment to bad judgment...you are comparing an illegal act (DUI) to a legal but dumb act (riding w/o a helmet) true... my comparison isn't that good either... how about getting drunk and going for an OWS?  bad judgment and legal. |
| 2009-09-04 7:46 AM in reply to: #2389034 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 7:50 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... People die in car accidents all the time while wearing their seatbelts. People die in motorcycle accidents all the time while wearing their helmet. People die in bicycle accidents while wearing their helmets (usually from cars plowing them over). The sport is inherently dangerous and people are putting their life at risk just by rolling out the door - even with a helmet. It is that simple. |
| 2009-09-04 7:55 AM in reply to: #2389084 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 8:07 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
Lethbridge, Alberta Bronze member | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... I think it's also a mistake to call not wearing a helmet stupid or dumb. In most places, it's still a personal choice. Of course in many people's view that statement makes me stupid or dumb too, so it's automatically pointless to argue. - The people who can be bothered to research the statistics, in fact it's their job and livelihood, are the insurance companies. They make smokers pay more, but I have never heard of separate rates for bike helmet wearers. - Cars with roll bars are safer. They are required equipment in many classes of race cars but they are not cost effective for every day use. It's a matter of assessing the costs (expense, inconvenience, heat & discomfort) against the benefits or risks (serious but very unlikely). You don't get parachutes on airlines either and people die horribly there too. |
| 2009-09-04 8:27 AM in reply to: #2389070 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 8:31 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... In my city I rarely see people riding without helmets.........this is a pretty huge cycling town. It is always a bit of a shock to see a bare head...especially in the hills which have VERY steep decsents.. I never say anything though. Do not really see the point . I figure they know the risks and are willing to accept them. I was part of a team researching the incidence of helmet usage and severity of subsequent head injury in the pediatric population about 23 years ago. Back then it was rare to see a cyclist with a helmet. Most of the parents I interviewed had no helmets for their kids or substituted hockey helmets. The research was subsequently published and it was influential in the passing of a mandatory bike helmet law for kids under 18. |
| 2009-09-04 8:34 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... ellipses |
| 2009-09-04 8:38 AM in reply to: #2389188 |
| Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... mrbbrad - 2009-09-04 8:34 AM ellipses
Do wha? Wasn't that the code one in that James Bond movie? |
| 2009-09-04 8:47 AM in reply to: #2389034 |
| Champion 10021 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... PennState - 2009-09-04 7:32 AM So when you see someone at a bar you always go up to them and tell them to stop drinking if *you* think they have had too much? This would somewhat equivalent...someone showing poor judgment, but not necessarily breaking the law? Really? I might. Or I might at least let the bar staff know that one of their patrons appears to be getting out of control and should be stopped (which is helpful to the bar, dram shop laws and being responsible for serving drunks who later commit DUIs...). I hate it when people are in a bar with their so-called friends, encouraging them to do shots and then watch as their "friend" become sick or worse. Someone needs to be a real friend in these situations. Or if I'm in the bar bathroom, and see someone out of control, I will ask if they need help and encourage them to drink some water, take a break, call them a cab, etc., instead of just ignoring them. I don't think it's a legal issue necessarily, because laws are eventually made from this sort of thing. I know this will get an argument... but what if you see your neighbor beating his/her spouse through the window? Do you just let it happen, thinking they are adults and surely understand the ramifications of their actions? I am not going around and telling everyone, every day, about how I think they should live their lives. Often I just roll my eyes and move on, if it's not something very dangerous. But it makes me sad to think that the people I come across every day might just let me go off on my way and harm myself. It's uncomfortable, yes, but I think it's a good thing to try to help others in any way you can. |
| 2009-09-04 8:50 AM in reply to: #2389165 |
| Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... PennState - 2009-09-04 8:27 AM Fact: it is not illegal (at least in my state) to ride w/o a helmet. It is foolish, and I have the right to think that. The slippery slope starts when you want to push *your* opinion on others on a completely LEGAL issue like this. The concept of stopping them to tell them your 'judgment' smells of the 'It takes a village to raise a child' philosophy. The slope here is pretty slippy...
Ahh man, are you kidding me? He said in a very polite way that he should be wearing a helmet. There was no "push" to it! The guy is entitled to no wear a helmet but I have a right to tell other people what I think of their actions. Do something that someone else thinks is stupid and don't be suprised when someone tells your their opinon. When I used to smoke I had people all the time tell me it was bad for me. Did I get offended or think they were trying to "push" their beliefs on me? No. Did I think they were trying to 'cram their beliefs down my throat'? No. Were they judging me? Yeah. So what. Don't think that we all don't judge everyone around us all day long as we compare thier norms to our norms. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. Or in this case, live and let die. But I also don't expect the rest of their work to keep their opinions to themselves becuase I'm going to be offended. Tell me what you think. Maybe I'll take your opinon or advice or maybe I won't....but I'm not afraid to hear it.
~Mike |
| 2009-09-04 8:54 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 9:03 AM in reply to: #2389254 |
| Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... PennState - 2009-09-04 8:54 AM Mike, just as you say the OP is entitled to his oponion...am I not also entitled to mine ?
Yes you are my friend, yes you are. But I feel it is my moral obligation to correct my friend's goofy ideas! :-)
~Mike |
| 2009-09-04 9:07 AM in reply to: #2389060 |
| Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... Daremo - 2009-09-04 8:42 AM ... I did all of my papers in English 101 as a Freshmen on the subject of helmet laws and requiring them. I'm pretty well versed on the topic. The vast majority of cycling crashes result in road rash and broken wrist/collarbones. Yes, people can get head injuries even with a helmet. I'd personally rather be dead from a head impact without a helmet than a living vegetable because of massive head trauma that was lessened by a formed piece of styrofoam. .. OK, I'll accept you having some good knowledge of helmet laws, but your reasoning on the highlighted part is a bit flawed. Yes, most injuries will be the less serious collarbone fracture and road rash. But the head trauma, while less likely, is potentially more devastating. The likelihood is that with a helmet, you get a concussion from which you will recover, and without the helmet the same injury will result possibly in death (which is pretty devastating to one's family, given the preventable nature) or the more permanent sort of brain damage you indicate fearing. In fact, if you get to an well equipped ER quickly enough, the odds are pretty good you will survive a serious head trauma. But still low that an unprotected noggin will get by without lasting damage. Personally, I'd rather take the mild concussion (which I have once or twice) than risk the permanent brain injury. Plus I like to serve as a role model to my family and friends that I ride with. I do point out helmetless riders as well as people whose helmets are not seated correctly to my kids and wife all the time, but I do not usually say anything to strangers. I don't think in the context of "random stranger" I will have an impact - either I am not on my bike, so I just seem to be a busybody, or I am on the bike, but being in tight-fitting spandex on a high end bike telling someone on their huffy how to ride comes across rather d!ck-ish. In my office, I do lecture kids and parents on the importance of using a helmet, and show them my last cracked helmet from hitting a pothole on the traintracks a few years back. Buyt hearing about it from a doc in the office is like hearing the doc tell you not to smoke, or to exercise more - seems appropriate and even expected. |
| 2009-09-04 10:11 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... As I already mentioned, I do ride with one all the time as well. It is once in a very blue moon that I do not anymore. BECAUSE of setting an example for my children and because of my affiliation with the sport's governing body. My children are very quick to point out people riding without helmets and tell me they are riding wrong. I'm very quick to tell them that riding without one is the person's choice and that they are making their own risk assessment. And that is not a fib. I have told my children that on numerous occassions. I have flat out told them not to judge other's actions as it is their own choice until there is a law requiring it - which I tell them there is for kids in our state. Edit: Honestly, this topic always makes my stomach turn. To me you can change the subject to abortion, religion, pre-marital sex, politics and it all reeks of the same thing - someone pushing their own agenda on another while the other person has every right to make their own choice. Edited by Daremo 2009-09-04 10:15 AM |
| 2009-09-04 10:15 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Extreme Veteran 669 Olathe, Kansas | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... craig002 - 2009-09-03 1:19 PM .....yup i am a a-hole..........but i have seen this guy hot rodding around town on his bad a## bike but no helmet many times......he makes me nervous with his riding "skills"... today we crossed paths while was on a run and he was rolling down the same trail at the park. i could not help but bring up the topic................"you should get a helmet bro!!!"......i say.......... he says "i got one" "its at home" i say, "it works better when it is on your head".......i told him as i ran and he rolled along side me that i had been in a few serious wrecks on my bike, one of which i would not have lived through had i not been wearing my helmet" "ah dude, i have been many wrecks as well" he says...........and "i am riding in the state championship this weekend".............. i think........yeah right on the state championship.......there's no way........ anyway....... he rolls on and off in the distance i run on.........thinking........that went over like a lead baloon and now i look like a real a-hole..... there you have it......kill me...... i cant think of a reason to ever be out riding without a helmet.......even if you are just cruising on a cruiser...... craig002 I think that unless it endangers you or someone else, you need to mind your own business. |
| 2009-09-04 10:27 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-09-04 10:33 AM in reply to: #2389532 |
| Master 1440 Calgary, AB | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... Daremo - 2009-09-04 9:11 AM Edit: Honestly, this topic always makes my stomach turn. To me you can change the subject to abortion, religion, pre-marital sex, politics and it all reeks of the same thing - someone pushing their own agenda on another while the other person has every right to make their own choice. But that's exactly what you're doing in this thread. You're pushing YOUR opinion that everyone should have the right to make their own choice about seatbelts/helmets etc which many do not agree with. If we all followed your opinion no one would argue about anything because any difference of opinion would be pushing their own agenda. If the judging guy says to the helmetless guy "Hey i think you're dumb for not wearing a helmet" or whatever, he's just advocating his opinion on the subject. Helmetless guy doesn't need to listen. He's hearing an opinion counter to his own, he can deal with it. Now on the other hand if OP had blocked the guy and restrained him because he wasn't wearing a helmet that's totally different and I don't think too many would agree that's acceptable. If you have a 80% chance of death in a crash with no helmet/seatbelt, and a 40% chance of death in the same crash while wearing one, you still have a chance of dying - but I think anyone which a grasp of math can see which is the smarter choice. I have no issue admitting that I judge people smoking, rollerblading/snowboarding/playing hockey with no helmet, driving an unmaintained beater belching black smoke, texting in their car, my neighbours with crappy lawns, parents who let their kids be monsters, etc etc etc etc etc. I'm sure I get the same back. |
| 2009-09-04 10:42 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... So how many of you guys wear helmets when you driving your car? I bet we could find some evidence that lives could be saved, permanent brain injuries prevented, if everyone wore a helmet while driving or riding in a motor vehicle. Does that make you a moron for not wearing one? Should people be hollering at you from the street to strap one on? It's an adult's individual reponsibility to assess risks and take appropriate precautions, not that of some other non-related person. |
| 2009-09-04 10:44 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Expert 1215 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... 99% of the time I ride with a helmet. I have had someoen yell at me once that I was breaking the law by not wearing a helmet. They were wrong actually. The whole helmet debate comes to this: "My morals tell me I must wear a helmet therefore your morals must tell you that you must wear a helmet. If you are not abiding by my morals, you are wrong." It is very similar to religious debates. I really do not understand why people get so wound up when they see someone without a helmet. I've been riding since the days of the hair net so I can tell you that this helmet uproar is relatively new. When I first started riding competitively, people paid attention to their environment and therefore there were not a lot of crashes. |
| 2009-09-04 10:45 AM in reply to: #2387652 |
| Master 1547 | Subject: RE: stopped running to tell a fellow cyclist to wear a helmet... I stopped running today to yell at a guy for not wearing Tri-shorts. I mean really, he was running in bike shorts. He clearly needs to upgrade. |
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